Cleric Heal Buffing

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[Caryatis]

hai num

Yea my server never really broke 35-40 players but when so few people had SoD at the time and it required SoD, I think that was a pretty solid pop. Anyway, opening up a new server in the next few weeks so you will be able to judge for yourself, how shitty I am at content(even though we are talking about balance)

The point I was making in regards to paladins is that you can't buff classes indefinitely without either destroying the balance of players vs mobs or retuning the mobs. So if(and if you read what you quoted of me Xig, you notice I used if a few times) paladins can do good DPS while healing the whole group with procs, that is going to be very hard to balance against a class that has to spend mana to heal and does shitty dps. As a player I know you don't want to see classes nerfed but from a design standpoint, if you reduce the game to everybody playing warriors and paladin then that is not ideal(unless by EZ hunter meant, just pick one of two classes). Often what sounds good in theory(ie group heal proc for paladins) doesn't work out as intended once people start min/maxing by putting 3 or 4 paladins in a group. Since Ive never played on EZ beyond surefall, I don't know how it works in practice but I know when Im designing a server I want each class to have its niche and atm clerics sound completely overshadowed by paladins(and if my top end content was being beaten without a single priest class present, I would consider that a failure).

[TheBloodmoon]

hai num

Yea my server never really broke 35-40 players but when so few people had SoD at the time and it required SoD, I think that was a pretty solid pop. Anyway, opening up a new server in the next few weeks so you will be able to judge for yourself, how shitty I am at content(even though we are talking about balance)

The point I was making in regards to paladins is that you can't buff classes indefinitely without either destroying the balance of players vs mobs or retuning the mobs. So if(and if you read what you quoted of me Xig, you notice I used if a few times) paladins can do good DPS while healing the whole group with procs, that is going to be very hard to balance against a class that has to spend mana to heal and does shitty dps. As a player I know you don't want to see classes nerfed but from a design standpoint, if you reduce the game to everybody playing warriors and paladin then that is not ideal(unless by EZ hunter meant, just pick one of two classes). Often what sounds good in theory(ie group heal proc for paladins) doesn't work out as intended once people start min/maxing by putting 3 or 4 paladins in a group. Since Ive never played on EZ beyond surefall, I don't know how it works in practice but I know when Im designing a server I want each class to have its niche and atm clerics sound completely overshadowed by paladins(and if my top end content was being beaten without a single priest class present, I would consider that a failure).

Likewise if my high end content required the use of a priest class I would consider that a failure.  The idea of requiring the same old "holy trinity" of clr/war/mnk is flawed.  The fact that you can create content outside of that standard is refreshing and is what makes Emu so great.  Of course that's one man's preference against anothers.

[Fugitive]

Caryatis

well there happen to be a big following here on EZ so it's not a "fail", you design your server as you see fit..

The great thing is Hunter is ever evolving stuff between Basher and himself.

It's hard to say what needs to be changed if surefall is the only zone you have ever been in..It's fun rng sux sometimes but there is a "fun" here..

I play all classes... a cleric remains in my party almost full time..

Keep coding you are great @ it.. but let server GMs run the server through their eyes..

[Collector]

It does seem like no actual healer class present doesn't feel like EQ... Then again.. imo I never liekd the fact mobs couldn't be slowed even just partially, past.. Ldon i believe? Anyhow... I can't wait for your new server =)

Edit: However, I do understand a slow really isn't needed =)

[Fugitive]

Again, this is not LIVE.

This is a evolving custom server.. It's a long way from where it started..

How about we just take away all the warriors augs, cyclone drop pally's group heals, nerf SK DPS... get rid of all charms and UCs..


Then go try T2/T3/T4

the content is made around certain things..

I do agree clerics should be buffed some way some how.. I posted my thoughts and others have made great ideas too..

Stop this nerfing this and that conversation every day its the same shit day in and day out..



Just cause it's available doesn't mean you gotta play it..

shit look @ hateborne.. ROA a wizzy..

I seen a necro ROA the other day

It's what you make of it..

Hell even that Enchanter who thinks he was 1st enchanter on server with 4.0 pfft.. =P

[Collector]

Again, this is not LIVE.

This is a evolving custom server.. It's a long way from where it started..

How about we just take away all the warriors augs, cyclone drop pally's group heals, nerf SK DPS... get rid of all charms and UCs..


Then go try T2/T3/T4

the content is made around certain things..

I do agree clerics should be buffed some way some how.. I posted my thoughts and others have made great ideas too..

Stop this nerfing this and that conversation every day its the same shit day in and day out..



Just cause it's available doesn't mean you gotta play it..

shit look @ hateborne.. ROA a wizzy..

I seen a necro ROA the other day

It's what you make of it..

Hell even that Enchanter who thinks he was 1st enchanter on server with 4.0 pfft.. =P

Yeah jsut drop it all ! Ill still have fun playing my SK because.. well I love the class =)
Didn't know SK was top dps til recently, but always knew pals were uber. Honestly, when I made my Sk i thought pal was best dps, but then again now that what you/others told me about UC, which is why i have been working on it... yea i can see why.

[Caryatis]

I never said EZ server was a failure, I said I would consider not requiring a healer on top tier content a failure. Why? Because that's all those classes do(I assume nobody boxes a cleric for dps?). The most challenging part of EQ is trying to keep all 16 classes balanced so that people feel like each is equally desirable, every server op struggles with that.

Besides that though, no where have I said "yo I can code do this with your server", you guys expressed your opinions and Im doing so as well and since players rarely view things from the perspective of the guy running their server and thus focus narrowly instead of looking at the big picture. Especially since most people are saying to buff other classes instead of nerfing one class, there's a limit to how well that approach can work and all I was saying that if pals are as op'd as they sound, then most likely they will get nerfed(especially you can't think of a way to make a cleric comparable to a paladin which is going to be really hard considering a majority of a paladins power comes from mana-free sources, certainly in 7 pages nobody has been able to think of a solution, its easy to say "do something" but name that something).

To be clear, Im not a representative of the EQemu team, come here to tell you what to do with your server. Im a guy on sunday, alittle bored while waiting for shit to compile, giving alittle insight on what else a server op is considering when thinking about balance. Hunter is different for sure but even he doesnt seem pleased where clerics are atm.

[Xiggie | Stone]

Balance and content go hand in hand therefore in my mind are one in the same. I am not picking on your wording, I am just clarifying my choice of words.

The reason I think it is a bad idea to nerf paladins is because to do that is to take a huge chunk of dps out of the group when the hp of bosses in T3 is in the hundreds of million (guess but close). I think paladins should be left alone and I think the more traditional dps classes should be brought up higher than paladins and sk's are currently only without the self healing and group healing abilities. As for clerics, I have already made a suggestion for caster classes. Combine the characters who have minimal roles to give them more of a role in groups. 

[Balthor2]

Caryatis are you not catching the fact that paladin DPS comes from several sources.
(1) ENC buff
(2) Firestrike 4 / 5 augs which go for 3+million pp and while some of us have several most have none
(3) Charms - Try farming one of these to 50 and let me know how you like it.

Paladin has big ass heals? Yea if it has oracle up to 41+ and has its 4.0 sure.
Paladin is big ass DPS? Sure if it has its 4.0 and stuck in 3 strike augs and has the enc buff
Paladin today > Paladin of last year this time? Yes and its nice to not have to play CLR CLR WAR WAR RNG RNG to beat the fucking content.
Because thats how shit was balanced for a very long time.
We're talking of the days when all you needed to do is get anger5 augs onto a warrior (and back then songs worked so you could stick a bard in the group) and you were godly dps.

Anyways people did post suggestions for this class (cleric fixs) if you would open your fucking eyes and read the threads.
<3 as always

[TheBloodmoon]

How about a group buff that gives all players in group a proc buff that is a scaled down version of the paladin epic proc? Could make it short duration and heal similar in range of a necro 3.0 pet proc. Possibly add a cure component and/or give the initial cast also act as a simple group heal.  Only downside is stackability but that's no different than druids.  This could help give an edge in melee centric groups for an otherwise undesired class.  Just a thought...

God I hate to quote myself ...

... but please show me where in these 7 pages that I did not post this.  Honestly, had you read through these 7 pages you would have seen at least a dozen other posts just like this to include ideas and suggestions to give clerics some extra abilities.  I'm just sayin...

[Fabdibikya]

Hell even that Enchanter who thinks he was 1st enchanter on server with 4.0 pfft.. =P

Sup?

(PS: I know I'm not the first, but if there are 2 digits of enchanters out there with a 4.0 I'd be surprised. Also, I definitely am the only one with a 4.0 that's a main character)

And you know what? I had a shitload of fun playing an enchanter, and seriously, all those people whining to get charm back? To quote Bender, they can kiss my shiny metal ....

But yes, Clerics need a boost and there are a lot of good ideas out there. It's just a matter of selecting a few that work and implementing them properly.

[Teehee]

If a person boxes multiple characters the argument that their enchanter is the main character is thrown out the window.

[Balthor2]

If a person boxes multiple characters the argument that their enchanter is the main character is thrown out the window.

hahah win.
I think enc can bring a lot to the table, I just do not have the resources to have mine online full time. Shame as I really like the class.

[slaughterhaus]

If a person boxes multiple characters the argument that their enchanter is the main character is thrown out the window.

He doesn't roll with a army. I believe there is a paladin in his arsenal and that is it.

It sounds crazy I know....but he is


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