2-11-15 Caster Changes

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[Drep]

Because we stick and done our casters too?    My mage in my 2nd group is always on stick.  When everyone attacks, he chain nukes and malos and his pet auto attacks.    Whats the difference?  lol

not everyone uses the banned MQ2MELEE function FYI

stick,twisting mage spells and a pet attack in your hotkey is banned?   Now I'm getting confused.

[hateborne]

I'll post as updated screenshot or two, with a detailed explanation later today.  Also, the Mana Necklace recipes are still disabled until slightly later today.


-Hate

[Chunka]

twisting mage spells and a pet attack in your hotkey is banned?   Now I'm getting confused.

Yuuuup! The ONLY thing you can twist here are bard songs and epic. No other spell, no other item. Says so specifically in the rules....

This includes using Twist to spam abilities. If you want to use Twist to maintain the hellish combination of spells on your Bard, that's fine. Any bard ability (and class aug click) is fine for twist. Using it on other classes (e.g. cleric, berserker, druid, shaman, etc) is NOT approved.

Oh, and Hate, Crab 2 is giving 20K hps still, not 75K.

[Dimur]

I don't play a caster in any real capacity other than buffs and telling the pet to assist, but I think it's retarded to say you can't twist nukes on a mob when all you have to do with melee is call assist and they'll do their job til the mob is dead...maybe this needs to be reviewed by Hate and Akka.

[Chunka]

Issue was people twisting zerk epic and cleric group heal and afk killing. Thats why Hunter first stated twist was bannable if used by any class other than bard, back around Xmas of 2013.

[Dimur]

Then it's a cut of your nose to spite your face fix and I'd guess a major contributor to nobody being interested at all in playing casters.  I don't recall Hunter saying that at all, if there's an official post I'll concede my point but I do know that in my direct conversations with Hunter he only cared about automation if it was afk killing and didn't much care as long as there was a control toon at the keyboard.

[WatchYouDie]

Then it's a cut of your nose to spite your face fix and I'd guess a major contributor to nobody being interested at all in playing casters.  I don't recall Hunter saying that at all, if there's an official post I'll concede my point but I do know that in my direct conversations with Hunter he only cared about automation if it was afk killing and didn't much care as long as there was a control toon at the keyboard.

Issue was people twisting zerk epic and cleric group heal and afk killing. Thats why Hunter first stated twist was bannable if used by any class other than bard, back around Xmas of 2013.

I recall both of these, more or less they coincide with each other.

[Chunka]

Dim, all I can tell you is just before Xmas 2013 he got into someones shit about it in OOC...cant recall who. Said roughly that people should know better than to use twist for anything other than bard, because its obviously not something he'd allow. Whether you recall it or not is meaningless....he said it. Most probably while you werent on. He ended the rant in OOC with "Use twist on any class other than bard and I will ban you". As to the lack of a post about it.....probably timing. As I said, was right around Xmas 2013.

[Fuzzypoodle]

Yes he said that in ooc.  Never made a post about that I saw.

[Dimur]

I could really care less regarding casters, but considering people saw him say in /ooc that's obviously the way he wanted it.  I'm curious though if someone put a multiline on their assist command and used whatever the caster command is to tell them to cast a nuke on refresh over and over until the mob is dead if that's grey area too.  I can't foresee any situation where I'd actually want to play a casting class, but I still contend that their viability in a normal group setting is shades worse than a melee that can stick to a mob, moveback, circle behind all with a single keypress.  Tedious multiple button pushing?  I'll pass.

[balidet]

Not to start an argument but With mutiline and channels you can have your caster assist your main tank/and cast 2 spells depending on cool down with a single key..i just tie it to my attack key that I am pressing every few seconds anyway as mobs die....casters chain spells..epics are clicked ....heals are cast....and I don't have to be sneaky about it....


but whatever) i see people using mq2melee so often its funny....not to point fingers but I see questions like "why does my char stop attacking when the mob gets low" in ooc all the time....i would guess that 90% if not higher of the newer and a large margin of the older players use it to some degree or another...

Maybe the question should be ...do we want to officially allow it because such a large portion of the people already do it?

[warrior5]

Not to start an argument but With mutiline and channels you can have your caster assist your main tank/and cast 2 spells depending on cool down with a single key..i just tie it to my attack key that I am pressing every few seconds anyway as mobs die....casters chain spells..epics are clicked ....heals are cast....and I don't have to be sneaky about it....


but whatever) i see people using mq2melee so often its funny....not to point fingers but I see questions like "why does my char stop attacking when the mob gets low" in ooc all the time....i would guess that 90% if not higher of the newer and a large margin of the older players use it to some degree or another...

Maybe the question should be ...do we want to officially allow it because such a large portion of the people already do it?

Since using twist to nuke is essentially the same thing it should be allowed. It's dumb that casters cant use twist to cast nukes imho. If the point is to balance casters a bit more let them use twist to be able to cast more spells. I'm running out of multiline room as it is.

[hateborne]

Chunka, as stated in the original post, reboot is needed for the changes to take effect. The Drake spell broke because the refresh time in spellfile was jacked, so it told client to "sit the !%!& down" for 450 seconds instead of 45 seconds.



As for the casters and twisting/autoattacking/etc, I will clarify this here and in the official rules post:

I am completely OK with minimal autoattack type setup for casters. Essentially, if you have a VERY minimal and highly basic auto attack method for casters, so they too can compete on a similar level with melee...THIS IS FINE! If you set it up where the casters continually assist, on their own, which frees you up to make a sandwich, mow the yard, or otherwise step away....THIS IS *NOT* OK! I am ok with a puppetmaster approach where a tank can, like a puppetmaster, pull strings to perform a basic action. The puppetmaster does not have the ability to pull one string to make a puppet dance, shake, follow, and perform autonomously...neither shall you.

Is that, in any way, unclear?


-Hate


EDIT: Not being aggressive, just trying to clarify my stance on this. :-)

[warrior5]

Makes sense thanks for the clarification Hate. I think it will help after you update the rules as well since it creates confusion.

Personally I'm really looking forward to the caster changes.

[hateborne]

For those of us slow on the uptake, can you clarify the mana neck changes?

As an example, what would a caster with UCv2 and Mana Neck 10 see as far as percentage damage boost on spells?

I can't give an exact example as I don't have my test box setup on home desktop yet (did on work laptop, but starting new job monday so... handed old one in). To give you a scaling example: UCv3, Earring50 (caster), Mana Necklace 8 or 11 (can't remember) on a wizard with all AAXP...I was averaging 29mil per cast.


-Hate

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