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Author Topic: Rogue Suggestions  (Read 13022 times)
Demeth
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« on: December 15, 2010, 02:02:38 pm »
I just wanted to post some suggestion to make Rogues more effective. I play a Rogue main and would simply like to be able to continue to play a Rogue as my main without having to be drug around by guildies.

From what I understand, there is confusion as to whether a cap exists on a Rogue's backstab damage and whether or not it is client specific, yada yada yada. I think we might be able to work around that to still increase Rogue DPS.

Most of my suggestions though, work by modifying and emphasizing backstab mechanics. The Rogue was never meant to be a box-able character and I don't think we should dummy it down to make it one.

1. Increase rate of double and triple backstabs. It doesn't have to become a 50% thing, just maybe by 10% would help increase DPS in combination with the next suggestion.

2. Increase minimum backstab damage. Currently, I have 3.0's and if I'm facing the mob, clicking on backstab seems to have a greater chance to do a single backstab of 179 damage, in the midst of my regular damage which is at least twice that amount on a bad shot.

3. Decrease backstab reuse time? This would increase DPS quite a bit, but would then decrease rates of daggerfall enhanced backstabs, which could potentially keep the DPS generated the same. So maybe also decrease reuse time on 3.0 clicky and disc.

4. Poison mechanics, maybe make them a combat innate? In live, one of the cool things about a Rogue was being able to poison your dagger, sneak up, and backstab a mob to being near 50% quickly and risking minimum damage to yourself by maxing your DPS on first shot. Honestly though, a poison that works for one shot is almost useless on this server, especially at the amount of damage the old poisons used to do. This will probably require a lot of DB editing, so maybe instead make a set of poisons created with the Magic Box using things you find off of T1/T2 chests and mini-bosses? Or, of course, we could just get a super-cool poison DD on the 3.0's and above.

Anyway, just some stuff to think about, and I'll add more as I come up with ideas.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 02:05:53 pm by Demeth » Logged
Lithiar
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2010, 03:34:28 pm »
Adding a Unresistable Stun, allowing the rog to run behind mob and hit that backstab hotkey will be fun imo. Great for Soloing, beneficial in Groups.
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Reid
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« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2010, 03:41:59 pm »
As far as I know, rogue DPS is fine, just high maintenance. If you can post parses proving otherwise, it'd get more attention from gm's and I, for one, would be more inclined to banter about changes.

As it is, I am too uninformed to pitch in on any mechanics/class changes that may or may not be necessary for EZ rogues.

Your 2.) On the otherhand: This is a issue any person who has ever played a rogue and had the aa for "front stab." As far as I know the rng has always been more likely to hit for the minimum with backstab from the front. This was part of the code implemented on live to ensure that the rogues wouldn't become imbalanced. Now, on EZ you may see a significant difference with what the rng considers the "minimum" due to the way custom content, focuses, possibly broken aa's that boost damage, etc. work. -> I.e. the math on the Backstab attack includes a dmg boost from something like your +Backstab modifier from your epics or the +Attack from your custom gear, that it doesn't from the front.
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Demeth
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« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2010, 03:43:42 pm »
Last time I parsed, actually, my Rogue's DPS parsed lower than my 3.0 bard's. I'll post parses as I can.
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Reid
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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2010, 03:50:14 pm »
With or without augs, t3 spells, equiv gear, etc.?

If you post less dps than my Bard, i'd be pouring over all the data I can trying to figure out if something is being left out of the parse, or if you are bad off.
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Xiggie | Stone
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« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2010, 05:24:34 pm »
If you parsed less damage than your bard then you were not playing your rogue to his maximum potential. Rogue with a 3.0 is on par with a monk 3.0 as far as dps just more click intensive. If I am not mistaken there are parses to support this somewhere on the forums.
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Balthor2
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« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2010, 06:37:59 pm »
Bard dps is a joke
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Reid
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« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2010, 08:54:47 pm »
Bard's dps is measured like that of any other utility class, not in just his pure damage, but the damage he brings to the group. It's harder to quantify, but most assuredly is still trailing behind any other dps class. I see a bard as a welcome addition to the melee centric environment of EZ, bugs in coding aside.

But I digress, we were talking rogues...
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slaughterhaus
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« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2010, 12:53:43 pm »
I'm not sure a bard is really that useful. I would love to see a parse with a bard singing and a parse without a bard singing. I too digress..

I parsed a rouge the other day in FG Nesta I believe his name and his dps with 2 3.0 and Lifetap augs from fear. His dps on the dummy was solidly around 8k.

I was interested because my Zerk and Ranger both are parsing at 4k and 6k with the same gear respectively. Rogue Dps is good out of the box with augs and sorc charm I'm pretty sure it would be pretty damn sick.

Thoughts?

Deadend
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Fabdibikya
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« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2010, 05:31:27 am »
Wonder if enchanter's arm also adds 15% to rogue backstab damage.
Would add 6k to that 40k backstab that they're so proud of.

Dem, next time we're both online we're going to pay a visit to Mr. Dummy.
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Glennsi
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2011, 05:16:28 pm »
i hear alot of rogue changes implimenting slowly there testing out bugs etc. But Rogues will be awesome like they are meant to be;).
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Gnaughty
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« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2011, 11:07:49 pm »
Hmm I checked my monks this week and wizards, I'll have to check rogue tonight with and without augments.  Tell me this, do we believe rogue dps should match wizards and monks? 
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Glennsi
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« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2011, 04:44:00 am »
yes wizards and rogues were always top dps and monks were good to but wizards were the king of spell and rogues king of melee..thats just my opinion..
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Storm
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« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2011, 05:41:41 am »
Quote from: Gnaughty on February 06, 2011, 11:07:49 pm
Hmm I checked my monks this week and wizards, I'll have to check rogue tonight with and without augments.  Tell me this, do we believe rogue dps should match wizards and monks? 

I beleive rogue dps should outmatch the monk dps, because rogues need a lot more active work (positioning, evading, backstabbing) than monks.   Besides, monks tank better than rogues.

As for wizards, I'm clueless...
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Smoka
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« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2011, 06:36:36 am »
Quote from: Glennsi on February 07, 2011, 04:44:00 am
yes wizards and rogues were always top dps and monks were good to but wizards were the king of spell and rogues king of melee..thats just my opinion..

Welcome to an EMU server. It might be shock, but this isn't live.
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