EZ Server

I have been playing for several months...I'm thru qvic and tacvi, should be going to PoD soon.  You might call me a noob, and that's fine.  I try to enjoy the content instead of rush thru because apparently it's just a grind eventually....so the way I look at it, the longer it takes me to get to the grind, the more fun I'll have, but whatever.

Anyway, there is a certain understanding that you can receive help getting epics, yet more and more you get this "attitude" when you ask for help.  Just now I saw someone /ooc saying "can anyone come and do Twinkle Toes for me?"

The responses were:
"while you watch?"
"lol"

Now you might say this is an isolated case but it's exactly the same response I got when I asked for help with TT too! More and more there is this mentality from the "uber" people that, 'ok I'll help you but I have every right to be an asshole while I do it'.  And if you think this is true in game, it's RAMPANT in the forums.  I could link to many many posts that basically go like this:

"Noob" posts complaint/question
Uber retort says stfu noob you have no right to complain/question, read the rules, learn how to play right, yada yada
Uber post scripts, o btw, if you need help message me in game

I mean seriously people, is this what the definition of friendly is? Yell at them then offer to help?! Is the grind at t3/t4 really that bad you have to take it out on other people?  Maybe I don't want to get to t3/t4 and become one of these "helpful" A-holes.  The easy answer is to say it's isolated, not all the uber people are like this and yes while I believe that is true, I also know it starts at the top and trickles down.  I have a short list of people in game that are uber that are actually truly good people, but let me tell you it's quite short!  The vast majority are people that only help others to build their own egos, aka, self proclaimed helpers!  Let's see you help someone then say "See how great I am for helping!"...right on!

So maybe EZ has changed recently for the worse, or maybe it was just like this all along and I was too much of a noob to understand.  Either way I think it's sad...two cheers for helping someone just to help, and not asking or saying anything in return.  There are very few left that do this in my opinion!

         So are we not to talk to the people we are helping?  ??? Seriously tho most people i start helping they ask me if i'm hunter when i take them to time for the first time. Then they ask about what i'm wearing. Then they ask if they can become just like me.  Then i explain the whole warrior thing to them. Then tell them what toons the server is looking for. 75% of the time they stay with the broke junk toon and don't listen. So i don't know maybe its just people come across as Ego whores but don't really mean to. Kinda the perk of it all once you get up there you can sit back and relax take it easy and help people as you come across them. That being said Cracken is on a 2 week break of helping and going to be working all my toons back through progression. Cheers  ;D



Cracken
~GL of Classic Composers

Want to know why helpful people are starting to get attitudes?
About a month ago someone would ask for help and get 4-5 people respond sure meet you there. But lately there have been far too many people demanding help, and usually its the same people on different toons. When I first started out it was way different, I didn't want to leech off someone so I paid what I thought was fair for their time and effort. Just to show you how much it has changed:
first time I took a a toon through 1.5 pages I paid 100k, I paid 150k for 2.0 pages, and I traded FG set for 3.0 run+TT kill. I never once stood around asking for help in ooc expecting a high level person to come help, know why? They have stuff they need to do too.
Last night I was helping people when I was waiting for a zone to respawn. And you know what annoyed me most about it....I kept getting to told to hang on a minute in the middle of the run. When you ask for help, you damn well better be ready and you sure as hell better not be switching toons checking a camp.
One thing I guess you are taking for granted...those uber people you talk about don't HAVE to help. They choose to help, and they can just as easily choose not to help.

This is from another thread where I diverged from the original post, but Smoka is right on in my opinion, 100%.

Smoka said:

Note, he really didn't stop helping, he still helps just selectively, and in my opinion help should not only be selective but limited!  Like you get most of your LDON pages and I'll help you finish the rest.  If you are selective with your help, then people WILL be grateful and not act like spoiled brats.  Just be more selective, people will be more grateful and everyone will be happier/more friendly!

And Funkinmofo, I agree with almost everything you said!  I think the answer to your situation is tell them you can't help anymore as soon as they ask you to wait!  You are exactly right that you don't have to help and if it starts annoying you, nothing will be gained for them or for you so that's when it's time to pull the plug.  They learn their "lesson" to not ask you to wait, and you still helped out, it's a win win!

Either way, the attitude isn't the answer I think.

re: the 'noob' posts complaint/question

If you look at the posts as of late you see more and more complaints... (I don't mean to moan but / Ultimate Charm = Ultimate Time Sink, Can we fix? / Something needs to change for KD drop rate!!! / Frustration / This is BS / The grind... / etc.)

I believe that one of the reasons that the more 'senior' players get agrivated with the recent posts and people asking for or expecting help and/or saying that the bar needs to be lowered or changed is because not only did they do it the hard way, but because it's part of what makes the acheivement that much better or more valued.  (and yes, it may sound 'douchey' but making it easier to get to the more end game content devalues the pain in the ass work it took to get 5 toons to that content when it was more difficult and devalues the prestige of the players at end game)

Hunter is notoriously good at constantly improving the server based on peoples suggestions, but people seem to complain about EVERY actual challenge that they face in progression.  Even now it is much different than it was 6 months ago to progress through the server and it is much easier and therefore much less 'uber' to have fought the long and hard fight to get to 'end game'.

Look at all of the things that Hunter has changed in the past months: Lowered the spawn times for many mobs, increased drop rates, created instances, changed LDON point system, rot bots, dragon class armor, and the list could go on.

I don't want to make it seem like legitimate complaints and issues shouldn't be heard and I think that it is awesome that Hunter is so active in adjusting the content and creating the environment that he created.  

It really is a joy to help a true noob that is new to EZ and can't believe that you are soloing LDON mobs or even QVIC mobs that would single round kill them.  I think it's a great joy that many of the 'uber' players enjoy tremendously from time to time, but you even said in your post "Anyway, there is a certain understanding that you can receive help getting epics, yet you get this "attitude" when you ask for help"  People enjoy helping but it should never be an understanding that they will receive it or are entitled to it.

The reason that some people jump on people when they make posts in the forums is because of Hunters dedication to change and fix things that are perceived as problems even if they aren't really a 'problem'.  You used to come across a problem, work hard to beat the problem / mob / etc. and then you were all the better man/woman/child for doing so...

Ehh.. I digress. :) :)

Amen Stuls Amen !!!!!!!!!!!

My point originally was not to defend the noob asking the question or complaining, my point was that the "senior" members of the server/forum have the choice on how they choose to react to it!  And in my recent observation, more and more, the responses are "not so friendly".

So even if those that are being "not so friendly" feel just and validated for being "not so friendly", because of the huge influx of
"more and more complaints", it doesn't change the fact that they are still being "not so friendly"!

revloc,
Sorry, I don't think I did a good job conveying what I intended.

I didn't mean that the more 'senior' members of the server are in fact rude, nor did I mean that they are acting that way intentionally only to feel 'just and validated' in response to complaints.  I simply was wanting to offer an alternative viewpoint to your critique of the responses.

While I don't know the entire context of the examples you made, and where in your opinion you view the responses as rude, I would possibly view them as rational, jovial and possibly misunderstood.

Again, I think you may be making some broad generalizations based on a few isolated incidents.  I personally don't feel that the bulk of 'uber' players enjoy being rude to people or try to belittle them intentionally.  Occasionally people are like that and you have to deal with it, but I wouldn't say, categorically, that all 'uber' players are that way.

The description of people being 'not so friendly' is more of a subjective personal perception thing, but again, I guess I just wanted to offer an alternative viewpoint to consider.

/noted

rev, I may very well be one of the 'not so friendly' people you are referring to.  I know that lately I have been very agitated by the people demanding changes to the server.  Because of this, I have been obnoxious, rude and down right nasty at times.  Hunter works a full time job and then in his free time, he works on the EZ server so that you and I can enjoy the game.  I don't want to see him get frustrated and throw his hands up because of the demands of a few ungrateful people that feel they shouldn't have to work hard to get what they want.   

I have always tried to be helpful in game.  There are several people I've assisted with epic runs and leveling.   At times I have referred people to the forums for information but that's when it's too much to type out.  If someone wants to know the items for FG/CG quest, it's crazy to think that someone is going to type them all out in game.  I imagine there are some people who have the items memorized but I'm not one of them.  Other than information like that, I try to answer questions when I see them posted.  I also congratulate people when they get their epics if I see it posted.  To me, this is important because I know how good I felt when I got mine.  Having someone else acknowledge it makes it that much sweeter - especially the 1.5   :)

So, while some of us do get upset about the insistent demanding of changes, at heart most of us are helpful people.

As for the 'uber elitist', I only know one toon in game that fits that description - one guy that can make you feel like crap because he took the time to help you.   :(

Stuls, I in fact agree with almost everything you said in your original post.  But in the same context that you are trying to make me see things a little different, I was specific to my choice of words, as I think most "senior"/uber players are quite friendly and it's been an enjoyable experience on the server overall...but recently I have felt that things are turning (even if ever so slightly) for the worse and again it's hard to generalize but in my experience it seems more people are quick to flame newer people readily...

and I can verify, having been in their shoes...it doesn't feel jovial even if that is the intent, it feels like you are being ridiculed.  In my particular instance it went something like this:

My ooc:  MoW is up, can someone come kill him please?  (Now I'm sure you can critique the way I asked but essentially I needed help, was willing to pay if needed, etc)

Responses:
I will come kill him and loot him and you can watch, is that what you meant?
haha
lol
etc

So ya, jovial sure, were they just joking yes, but at my expense and it didn't feel good AND server wide!

And if my posting here helps just one person take the edge off when dealing with someone that "doesn't know any better", then it was worth my time.

MoW is a tough one, and I've had to beg for help on all my toons thus far, but when I do I try to keep it lighthearted and not worry so much about anything people say.

I do know that when I can reliably kill him I'll gladly help people, because I remember what a huge upgrade it was for me.  I also think the best way to thank the people that have helped me is to try and pass it along when I can.

When I joined the server I took my monk through Dulak and then joined with a Beserker who basically gifted me through BOT.  He was so nice to do that and I thanked him completely.  My son and I worked our way through POT with no help and then I farmed cg and fg and payed for a run through Qvic.  After getting a solid group of toons, war, cleric, paladin, ranger, bard and the monk through Qvic I headed to POD and got help again from an old timer who gave me a dragon bp for my monk.  At this  point I was ready to farm POD.  I twice offered free runs through POT, one time to two players and another to a single.  One of the three players were respectful and grateful for my gift of time.  When I get help I make sure and tell the person who helped me how much I appreciate their help, and when I help someone else, if they don't bother to express gratitude it leaves me feeling less willing to help.  That is just the way it is.  Now, I get almost no time to play and school has started again and I have papers to grade again.  So sad, so if you are playing, be grateful!

You ask a question server-wide, you get a server-wide answer.   ;D

I dunno im always helping people that are asking for help in ooc. Yes I do get bored running 1.5 2.0 ldon cards ect constantly so im not always offering to help people but i've helped alot on my pally wack still believe theres alot of people out there that help and dont charge. But you'll always get people that don't like helping people unless it benefits them.

"Fuck you noob."
Is the title of my response and the reason being is that I got sick of being asked 9million questions over the course of several days. Being bombarded with tells demanding assistance with every other thing in the world.
This is new EZ not old EZ where I could run you from zero to 70 and epic 3 in just a couple hours.
Loads of people in every zone camping everything you could want.

Add in the fact that you never see the nice side of things, those times someone asked in ooc for help and didnt come across like a demanding dick sucking idiot noob and I did help them and they were cool about it.
Those do happen, not often but they do and no one knows about it. So people only see the big bad side of balthor getting #revoked and shit and so I say fuck you noob.

          I'm about to jump on the bandwagon with balthor. +100 all the way around.  ;D




Cracken
~GL of Classic Composers

...thanks for confirming what my original post said!

Balthor has not even played probally since you have been on the server so your statement is null but have a nice day lol

but this is for you Balthor FUCK YOU BALTHOR FUCK YOU!

btw when you coming back to join xiggie hes making a come back

meh i have to say quite offten ill blow smoke up peoples ass if am busy saying smart ass comments, its not that i wouldnt help them if i want bussy am just a smart ass by nature.

I've never talked to Balthor in game, nor does he know who I am, but I have to say you are my favorite poster.  Not afraid to tell it like it is.  Fuck yea.

Balthor is everyones favorite dick but we love you anyways now come back and help xiggie other wise he will bug me all day.

Hello all.  Just thought I'd chime in as the person that actually replied "While you watch?" as quoted above.  Nice to see such a lively debate has sparked, but I'm here to confess that your perception of other players has led you to misinterpret my response.

I'm sure you all know EZ has its share of smart-ass replies.  Sometimes I really get a good laugh reading them.  It's not because I revel in the misery of new players.  I don't think anyone wants to see the server lose its share of fresh blood.  I'm still new myself, only been around a few months.  But players smack to let off steam.  It certainly isn't unique to EZ or even EQ.

I can see that you thought I was being an unhelpful jerk, expecting that a newer player should join in the fight to kill TT.  In reality, if I were killing TT for someone, I wouldn't care if they sat there and re-organize their spellbook.  But in this case, my response was much more immature and was poking fun at the way they said "come and do TT for me"  She is rather nymph-looking after all, so my male gutter brain turned into beavis & butthead mode, leading to my response noted above.

So I'll apologize for not being funny enough, and hope that you find yourself taking a moment in the future to consider if the person being unhelpful in ooc is actually trying to give you and everyone else a chuckle while simultaneously sending the asker a tell with the actual answer.

Cheers,
Skorp