EZ Server

Always a fun topic right?  ::)  I know, so try not to turn this into a "nerf this" or "soandso is overpowered!!" rant and flame fest...

Anyway, been hearing some talk about changes that might happen so wanted to get some hints from thems that know (Hunter?) and provide some of my feedback..

First off, my group is currently paladin ranger druid.  All are 3.0 with level 20-30 charms, T1/T2 gear and MossyVs on weapons (none of those Million-pp augs *cough*).  Seems to me the paladin's damage output is far ahead of the ranger which seems completely backwards to me, especially given the uber-healing of the paladin.  The druid... well she's just there to soak up leather drops, though the regen is decent I guess.  Her Dots and nukes are a complete joke at this level (I calculate about 1k dps... paladin does closer to 20k... ranger probably 3/4 to 1/2 that..)

I've never seen T3+ so can't comment on that.

T1 bosses are pretty trivial for me, but take a while to kill.. basically the paladin on /autoattack and /afk and wait for the win.

T2 bosses take FORFREAKINEVER to kill, especially when the adds spawn minis and let's not even talk about the Kronos fight... (truly sleep-inducing).  It's not the tanking or the healing, again paladin on /afk auto attack will almost never die... just not enough firepower from the ranger/druid - and yes believe it or not I do tab over to the druid and drop dots/rains .. why I don't know.. probably just bored! ;)

Thoughts:
Everyone thinks the Pal is overpowered, and I think I agree at least from the damage standpoint.  IMO if you cut the Pal epic's damage proc in half but kept the healing the same I think you'd be on the right track.  People would still want a paladin in group (or 2) but would consider using real "DPS" classes for DPS instead of just the current no-brainer "welp, throw in another Pal"...

In fact I seem to remember it wasn't that long ago around here people DID use rangers, monks, even rogues for DPS....  and then everything changed when we started relying on procs to do most of our damage..

Of course you'd need to seriously beef up the melee DPS classes.  Please, withOUT relying on mega-expensive augs.  Honestly I feel relying so heavily on proc damage for DPS is going down the wrong road.  I know that's an easy route since making changes to melee damage, or mob AC, is a very complicated process...  but at least for the love of gosh if that's the solution, put them on the ranger/monk/etc epics directly... or at least give us dropped/inexensive augs (like Angers) for ALL classes.

So the druid then... how about some Dots and nukes for caster classes that drop in T1 and below?  Because right now all these classes are basically buffbots - at best.  The pet classes have seen pets beefed up a little, but pets are hard to use.  Wizards got a T3 spell, but how about some sub-T3 love, and some love (DPS love) for other casters?  Ideas - Dots for druid, necro, etc that do decent DPS, start dropping in QVIC and get more powerful from there on.  Shamans - how about a slow or mob weaken that actually works?  Enchanters got a nice magic buff, and I know charm and mez is probably not making a comeback, but how about a nice line of Runes, starting in Qvic that absorb say 2-3k damage, ramping up to T3+ at 50k-100k (or more)? 

Anyway this is getting long... these are just ideas, I know Hunter/etc is real busy and all this stuff takes time, not looking for overnight massive sweeping changes that fix everything... just some IMO thoughts and ideas... what do you think?

Oh I should also say at this point YES I realize I'm only using 3 chars (and 1 "good" one... :p) I don't expect to blow thru high level content with only 3 (1 good...) I don't, I group up every chance I get.

and I know, I need a warrior ... :P

But if was considering adding more to my group (or ie replace the drubuffbot with something else for more dps) I wouldn't want it to just be.. another paladin... would want to try a monk, or even a rogue... but at this point I don't see the use (and YES I know I need a warrior!!)

You should probably parse a bit before you throw around dps numbers.  My pally has similar gear to yours with one of those expensive augs and does around 12k with ancient vampiric thunder to boost the non-aug dd proc on the sword.

Would love to see parses. I just based on FG dummy, it has 100k regen (16.6k/sec) pally can just beat that and reduce his hps (slowly though) so figure 18-20k

its regen is broken,
want a good parse target go to 2.0 zone

I don't think lowering pally dps or warrior dps is the answer. I think the answer lies moreso in beefing the rest of the classes to be on par with them.

... WTF ... have you guys even fought a T3 or T4 or MCP yet and asking to reduce this or reduce that...


Those guys have retarded hps...

I remember my 1st fight with 6 war pal pal rng mk cleric 50 mins or so..

Get Augged up..

get your 3.5s when you can..

The game is fun past T2... if you can handle the RNG...!! and I dont mean rangers...



btw, if you are still living in the days of glorified live in your heads.. please stop this is a custom server with custom content..

Ya I agree I would like to see all classes somewhat playable...

and they are...

you dont have to have the copy grp of who ever to play..

pick your classes have fun..


Im in no way picking or punching... just sayin...

you really need to dump the druid .. they are worthless period... dots suck DDs suck regen is cool... single point heal high charm is okay... but meh...

get some dps..

sk zerk ranger monk sk pally war (pet class 3.5)

No I don't think he should reduce anything... like I said I think T2 boss has too many HPs... lol.
I said he *could* reduce the dmg part of the Pally proc and it would STILL be uber, like omfg have-to have a paladin in your group (or 2) uber... 

I'd really like to see the DPS classes beefed up, is what..

SK zerker monk ranger... you really think that's a good group right now?  Honestly??  Yes I know, pick what you like and play it, that's why I have a ranger and a pally as main tank and no warrior :p

I'll do some parses tonight.. what's a good program for that?

Game Parse (http://gambosoft.com/)

Gamparse (http://gambosoft.com/forum/) for parsing.

Honestly.... Zerker blows my nutz. Mine anywyas... keep in mind i had no UC.. only sorc lvl 1 on him but 2 FS IVs.. and my pal could keep up w/ himk dps.. oracle vlvl 1 nuff said

If you think T2 has to many hp, wait until you get into PoG. With the setup you have now you will probably never kill boss. Not necessarily because you'd die, but more because they'd depop after 60 minutes and in no way do you have the dps to take one out in less than 60 minutes, even if you were full T2 and 3.5.

Fugitive was right in some aspect that you should pick the classes you like and have fun. But at some point you're going to hit a road block unless you have the typical Warrior or SK/pally setup. Maybe a monk, wizz or some other class to help supplement the others but generally speaking the core of your setup will be a warrior/pally(I myself use sk instead of warrior though, which seems to work for me). But in general the most common setup is a couple warriors and a couple pallys

Ok did some parses with Gamparse.. not sure if it's all setup well for this (I have misses turned off, for one) but it should be close.  Here's a few quick ones:

Thanatos -
Pal 4888 dps
Rng 4272

Thanatos again-
Pal 4504
Rng 4270

Heh (he blinds and when he does it reduces ATK by a lot)
Pal 4907
Rng 2910 (!) apparently the pal procs aren't affected nearly as much by blind...

Amun
Pal 6181
Rng 4219

dragon trash ..
Pal 4100-6200
Rng 3700-4300

Unless it takes you at least 10 minutes to kill those mobs your parses are going to vary greatly from fight to fight.

Shai-Hulud
Pal 5398
Rng 3715

This is normal for where your at, get more people in grp, get augs... T1 and T2 have appropriate hps..

Also, make viable classes.

Amun (time 298 - 5 mins)
Pal 5031
Rng 3853

Khepri (time 307 - 5 mins)
Pal 5064
Rng 3647

Amun (time 170 lol Trueshot used - 2.8 mins)
Pal 6141
Rng 8356 (Trueshot)

Now that's what I'm talkin about... how about a Trueshot proc on the ranger epic bow?  ;D

so, war/war/war/pal/pal then?  :p

Replace 2 of the warriors, one with pal, the other with a random dps, like monk or sk. Something with more bight than a druid or shaman.

Warrior and ranger already got nerfed ... trust me there is a big difference now, i was killing MCP in 10-12 min, actually i need around 15-17 min ... i want to see how many hours it will take you to be full T4 with big and long fight, you will get bored fast and think its impossible to finish all your toon gear ...

So i think before you try to balance class you should reach the high end content, get all the stuff you can have and after that you might be able to compare and give your opinion ... make more class and see what is good to have, i have almost lvled and geared all classes in games, between asking for lowering something, you might ask for upping other class ... paladin are good now, cleric are useless, they need an update, there heal isnt worth the paladin heal, i hope they should get an update, so we can re use them like it is intended in a group ...

While I don't think you need to be fully T4 I do think you need to be at least experiencing the end game content to be able to fully understand the depth of major changes that would effect all levels of content.

I know, I'm just throwing out ideas, such as they are.  Would love to hear what other people think.
Really don't see many people using "DPS" classes like monk, ranger, rogue etc...

Oh I totally agree, something needs to be done. The brawlers is supposed to increase damage. Lvl 50 is supposed to be 50%. The ultimate charm is supposed to increase 60%. This is raw melee damage, so if your attack max was 2k, with the brawlers 50 it should be a max of 3000. Currently it does not do that at all. I would really like to see this work. My monk gets a very small percentage of his dps from procs. He gets most of his damage from raw melee. It would really beef them up a little, though I don't think it would bring them all the way up to pally in dps, nor warrior.

In my second group i play some Ranger, they lost a lot of dps, but i still play them and depend how i feel, i can :

- play a Monk, he is doing good with the T4 spell, i m working on his UC to see how it goes
- play a Bard, he is fun, adding some dps, i m also working on his UC ;)
- play a Rogue, have to play him full time to do dps, i need to get him icestrike 5 ... but they cost too much money ...
- play a Zerker, he doesnt do a lot, he could use more hp and dps, so have to do him an UC ... and icestrike 5 ...

look like a lot of farming ;)

I just read the OP and a couple other posts on the first page... And from those I have to say this:

No classes should be reduced. If anything, some should be beefed up to match.

T2 bosses honestly do not have that much HP. Get more people in your group before you say something about mobs having too much hp.

I love this guy, someone that gets it and is willing to tell you (well politer then I would) to go pound sand.

 ::) i wish i knew more english  ;D