EZ Server

If any of you have used Group Instances extensively, hopefully you can help me to understand how they work. They last for 7 days, but obviously when we camp out our group is disbanded. Can I remake the group so that I can zone back in? Does it depend on the same group leader, or is the group instance tied to whichever group the one who made the instance is then in?

The way around it I've found is just to camp out while in the instance, and then when I log in, I'm still in it. But, I haven't found a way to enter the instance otherwise, and your help is appreciated. Thanks in advance!

As a side note, there are probably quite a few group instances not being used if others are running into this.

I've had it happen that the group instance ceased to be accessible while I was still in it.

I wanted to sell an item, ported someone out, invited him into grp and he says "I don't see a group instance". So that someone from my group was stuck outside as well.

i think that when you buy instance all people in your group at that moment will be flagged. But i'm not sure about this.

I have had it happen that I can invite toons to my group after creating and being in my group instance and them be able to get in. I have also had it happen where they cant get in after creating/being in. I have had it happen where I can't get back in if I leave it even if I stay in the group.

The way the current system is implemented, it relies heavily upon base mechanics that the source code has implemented for storing custom variables. You could develop instancing in a custom schema to track these things and I haven't made anything like that yet, though it's one of the things I want to get done when I get back from RL duties.

But to answer your question, instances are populated by a group ID. The Group ID is created on the formation of a group to be tracked in the database. Once the group is disbanded the instance in itself essentially is still there but when you go back to the Waypoint it will not recognize you have a Group Instance because you no longer have a Group ID, or the same ID as when you got your instance in the first place. So if you create another group, you most likely won't have the same ID and essentially the Waypoint will not be able to find your last instance because your ID has changed. So as long as you stay in the same group and your group does not disbands you will not have a problem with Group instances.

If you want more reliability you should go with the Guild option.

hmm ok. One more question then
can i create a group instance solo?
And does that mean that if i log off and log back in i will have id and will be able to enter group instance again?

no and no.

So this means group instances are only good until you log off and then they actually can be deleted as they are not usefull anymore.

Look grp instances worked the same as they did before .. if you LD, Break up or log of the instant breaks.

Look at the good things we can make this in any zone anytime and 10k is worth it.

They waypoint and instances changes are pretty damn awesome. No more unable to enter instances. Unable to create and other little instance problems.

Here lately I feel like we as a whole don't appreciate the changes that are here now that wasn't a few months ago, appreciation for our local GM/DEV and others that help out.

Let's make sure we remember we have 1 person with a little outside help doing what he enjoys 1 to 2 days a week for a side project. No we wont get anymore GMs so don't even ask those questions... trust on the internet is and will always be a problem..best situation is what they have now RL buds...with small outside DEV help provided by the others that run productive servers and test,write code.

Please continue to throw out ideas,code and bugs...but also remember how much improvements from JANUARY year alone.

I appreciate all the work for sure.
But i just wanted to know how it works for and avoid further questions about this.
Like i always mention in guides i want this to be usefull and not a half answer where peopel come back each time with a bit of more information.

The work that Hunter did on this server i would never be able to do.
Such a long commitment and still he keeps improving it bit by bit.

If i would do such thing my wife would kill me and complain about not spending time with her lol

Well. My experience with group instance is that, if you'll use it only for yourself, it's okay.. if you want to bring new people in to sell an item it's unreliable. Sometimes, your instance won't be avaliable to re-enter once one of the chars exits it (the rest of the group are still inside).

Just got my first experience with instances last night receiving some assistance on my 1.5 (Thanks much Savage and Sky! - was truely awesome to watch you work).

Few questons.. Can we make an instance of any zone by summoning a waypoint within that specific zone, or are there limitations to the zones we can instance? For example, if I make an instance of Dulak, is it the same as the Custom zone?

If you create an instance, like we did Sro last night, will it always populate and respawn? In this example, I create a group, make Sro, and terror was sitting there. Will this always be the case with named spawns.. like a full zone reset with everything spawned? Also, once killed, will respawn occur relative to the real zone spawn timer?

Thanks again for any insight. Also, big thanks to Hunter for this server.. I am having an absolute blast here.

Yes you can instance any zone
Yes if you create the instance the spawn will be there (if it has a place holder, that might be spawned)
If you clear a group instance, delete and remake yes it will be repopulated when you enter the new one. If you sit in a cleared instance the normal zone spawn timer will kick in and repopulate based on normal spawn timers.

Hey there Fugitive

Not sure what's upset you with this thread mate but it does seem that there's a lot of constructive information happening here so far (unless someone has edited a post that I can't see) from both a player and game developer perspective.  I certainly feel that I've learnt a lot more about Group Instances (and how they work) from the contributions of players so far in this conversation.

I'm also not sure that some of what you've said here is exactly right:


These don't seem to be the same as you've suggested.  As Chunk pointed out - you can now camp out of an instance and it remains for all the members of the group. 

I think Xiggy really validates the need for a conversation like this when he illustrates the degree of unreliability there is in group instances at the moment.  This unreliability makes them challenging to manage.

On a side note - I discovered the other day that an unguilded toon could create a guild instance but not a group instance.  Interesting huh?

Hopefully a thread like this can help enlighten players with tips and tricks to manage these challenges. 


This is not true.  The sleeping instances (as one example) are causing major issues for anyone attempting do either the Scepter Quest or charm farming in HoH.  I spent the better part of 30 mins last night not being able to get into a GI because the thing went to sleep for example.  People, on a regular basis, are still having issues entering instances. 

I think it's important to note that simply stating this is not an attack on anyone.  It's simply defining the environment in which we find ourselves playing in with a common community that might have solutions to issues. 

This is player based moderation at its best.

With the sleeping instances (for example) I've found that sending one toon in first is the best way to determine the zone's viability.  If it crashes - deleting the instance and starting again is far easier than waiting 30 minutes to try and wake it up.  Mind you - that is a costly answer.


I think the best sign of a player's appreciation for a game is in their commitment to playing it for extended periods of time.  Even more so on an EMU server.  It must be pretty satisfying to build something like this and have such an active and interested community. 

As many players were quick to resond to you - the appreciation of Hunter's work is very high.

As I said above, I don't think this thread (so far) has been an attack.  My reading is that it's been a conversation around building understanding.  I know that it can be hard to see the difference between destructive and constructive criticism (especially on a forum where so many threads walk the line between the two).  I just don't think (so far) this is a "destructive" sort. 

If anything - we should be encouraging more of this sort of discussion.

My thoughts anyway.
Peace
Strix

An easy backwards (and yes i know its ugly) way to fix sleeping instances is to add a wake instance feature.  One that Forces reboot of the instance without wiping its timers. You could click it when your ready and wait Ex: 5 minutes to enter, so it has time to load. Giving the button a 15 minute refresh should keep people from spamming it and lagging the server further.
I've been pondering this a few days...Thoughts Anyone?

25k group instances and 50k guild instances. Double that for certain zones like all the ldons, hoh and pofire. Make instances expire on server reboot. If by chance keeping them at 7 days, the double those prices. And before people say, "oh i would never make instances if that was the case" I have 2 points. Number one, that is the main point, to discourage people from making so many instances that the server has to manage. Number two, people would still make instances because they did before when the prices were higher and only lasted 24 hours. I think these steps would go a long way toward stabilizing zones. Yesterday every time I zoned to a non static zone I crashed if no one was in it.

That sounds like an awesome idea Trogdorr!  No idea on the tech side of course - but it seems a simple "Refresh Guild Instance" line off the waypoints would save a lot of grief for folks. 

Discovered last night that there seems to be a 15 min cooling off period for toons that get lost trying to enter sleeping instances.  Not sure why this is the case but it has me wondering.... how long does it take to wake one?

Strix

Strix

This is good Xiggy.


I don't know - I'm almost of the mind that the Group Instances could go completely. 

*Cue opening the can of worms now*

I understand that they're good for players who aren't guilded - and for players in guilds who want to PL or help non-guilded players.  I also understand the benefit of being able to have your own private instance whenever you want one.   I get that.

So why make the suggestion to remove them?

As Xiggy suggests above - it appears the server is struggling to maintain all the instances players are demanding at this point in time.  Simply put - the system does not appear to be coping.  Raising the price will deter folks from using these instances for a period of time - but, as we've seen in the past, our player base is very resourceful in acquiring things (like plat) and this will only serve as a short term solution.  In removing the group instances we don't loose our ability to create instances - we just reduce the amount of ad-hoc instances being created (thus freeing up system resources and hopefully stabilising the system).

Strix

I read this and started thinking of a solution... can someone point me to where the developer may see it....

MY thought would be if a toon is still in the zone... they could summon the waypoint and have an option "Refresh group ID" ... such that it can now link the particular instance with the new group ID....

There is definitely a discrepancy among various players about their experience with this. Some people seem to always be able to get back into their instances, whereas others cannot. I personally am extremely lucky if my instance comes back after logging out, disbanding, or disconnecting.

I'm just curious why there is this discrepancy. Perhaps the game client matters? I'm using UF. I also always make the same character my group leader, and that character always creates the instance (on somebody random's waypoint, however).

I found Akkadius's explanation of game mechanics perfect...

If you log out in the instance you're fine... when you log back in, if your 3-day timer has not expired. You're in the Instanced...

The problem arises if you disband, logout, change members, the group ID changes, and your link to that zone disappears. So if you zone out for whatever reason you cannot enter via waypoint... Rez will always work.

As it was stated Hunter did not create this code, I was wondering if the developer can look at the code again, and create some sort of "Refresh link" prompt on the waypoint for a member still in the instance to click and all current members of the group would be repointed to that particular instance.

Here is a work around that I use....

When you camp multiple toons in a group instance bring two of them to char select.  Push one... wait a couple of secs and push the other. The first toon (for some reason) will not get in, but the second (and 3rd... etc..) does.  Kill the first client once you load in a toon and then try again.  Everyone one loads after the first successful load.