EZ Server

I asked Fugitive to consider posting on this topic and he may still but until then I had thought further about the desire for Angry nerd 6-7 as before I was hopeful Hunter would release this for all but now that I've considered it further I think it might just make more sense that 6 and or 7 be 2hs restricted considering your augment slots with 2hs are obviously halved this may make more sense in that case not for extra hate as that is agreeably unnecessary.. Your thoughts?

Nocca

I would suggest restricting them by class (WAR) but allowing to put on either 2HS or 1HS. Perhaps in keeping with  AN4 (1500DD and 125000Hate) and AN5 (1000 AE dmg( - AN6 should be (25000 DD+125000 hate) and AN7 should be 2000 direct damage).

OR

make AN6 1HS and AN7 2HS.

Wasn't the point of the warrior 2h to be the trade off between dps and tanking?

If so, seems like making the augs nullify that change as counterproductive.

-Hate

In retrospect of your past post about destroying t4 warrior breastplate in an anti warrior stance I'd have to say your opionion on this warrior specific post is counter productive hateborne =p

Nocca

Yes, but you don't see me trying to champion SK getting new buffs to make them stupid durable while maintaining (or buffing) their damage.

So, the intention IS to give warriors back stupid high dps while maintaining tank god mode? Sorry, but I cannot agree here. EZ Server is starting to develop class identity. Players are slowly diversifying their group make up. If you give the warrior near (or at) top DPS again, it will go back to 4-5 warriors and 2 clerics in EVERY group again.

No. No. Please No.

-Hate

SKs are already super durable though. Mine is in T3 except for a T4 bp with a UC and only RoA20, and I can solo trash in the abyss. Clearly I need to level a second cleric so he can have perma stonewall!

Griz, my point went up and over friend.

I was just making comment on the absurdity of giving a class the best of both worlds...again.

Yes I do despise the warrior fad, but I will no let my feelings/opinions for a class cloud my judgement as a whole.

I see this change returning the state we are still trying hard to get away from. The "all plate, all the time" groups. Hopefully we can finally work in to true class identity again soon.

But back on track, NO. Giving the undeniably best tank a massive damage bonus too is just a bit over the top.

-Hate

Well, I think all 3 tanks are in a pretty good place. Warrior is the best with support, paladins are viable tanks but also pretty necessary for groups, and SKs are amazingly self reliant. Hell even monks are fairly decent offtanks for stuff like MCP if they have the sceptre of time to get aggro with.

Even though there are a number of outstanding balance issues for other classes (especially viability of druid/shaman/enchanter/bard for anything other than buffs), the tanks are pretty interbalanced.

Warriors in their current state in my opinion do not need any buffs.

The new 2hs is meant to create survivability and lose a bit of dps.

Reason why I see trouble in NEW augs... I will give you a situation..

Equip my 6.0 2hder...
click to get 30 min buff... for tankage
Equip two 1hders with NEW higher dps augs...
Behold the best survivability DPS in the game...


Right now warriors fit their position .. "Best" tank .. the little bit of dps they add is low but thats the tradeoff

Yeah there is no need at this time for anger aug update. Warriors have been fixed with the new 2hs. This is an outdated concept.

Also if you want more dps for warriors you can always add Icestrike augs.

As long as I am not the only one that feels that way!

-Hate

I absolutely agree.  The whole point of warriors existence is to absorb damage and hold aggro, not to be dps... 

Holy friggin' crap, did Xiggie and I just see mostly eye to eye?

IT'S A SIGN OF THE APOCALYPSE! TAKE COVER!

Seriously though, it seems insane to go back to something that we are finally moving out away from. If anything, before we worry about extreme high end warriors augs...where are the caster augs? (To be fair, we need to agree on what a caster aug should have as an effect)

-Hate

Twin cast

Unless it is chance based, this would put high end wizards sooooooo far above the rest. I have no major issues with being top, but I do have issues with everyone rolling one class.

Just a thought.

-Hate

Actually come to think of it wizards are pretty stout. Other caster classes I would say can use some loving though.

Uh, so AN6 and AN7 is bad, but making Wiz TOP is ok (considering you've got like 3-4)?  ;D   If this is not a sign of the class being powerful, then i don't know what is. I haven't seen anyone run around with 3-4 warriors...

Not gonna happen! I think wizards are overpowered and should be de-tuned. Perhaps take away their casting ability and use them as live bait for pulling mobs...

rofl and the bait was taken.

I am running on less than 4 hours of sleep and was still able to pull that off.

*flex*

Seriously, Twin Cast would be useful to Mages. Necros, Shaman(s?), Enchanters, and Druids would see little/no benefit. Wizards would become game breaking. With UC I am dropping ~1.29mil on a perfect cast with bard. With UC2 this would move up to nearly 2.5mil per perfect cast. With Twin Cast, I would be doing a MINIMUM of 1mil per cast, up to ~2.58mil with UC or ~5.0mil with UC2.

That's a bit extreme even in my skewed view of things.

-Hate

I'd just like to mention the absurdity that is my paladin now with almost 3 FS6's has left my warriors dps in the dust..so paladins are a dps class now?? and that makes sense enuf i guess but that warriors get a slight aug increase NO WAI OMG can't tank all the dmg AND do dmg too..that makes no sense in any mmo..well this is a private server true enuf and there have already been balance issues forever..paladin on live was a class that couldnt tank aswell as warrior and couldnt heal as much as a healer class but thats what a hybrid is sure.. However here hes the most used healer and now DPSes aswell and lets not forget that before warriors did get the nice 2hs upgrade paladin was probably the primary tank in t5, I know Severs primary tanked t5.

More to the point what I would personally like to see and accomplish is the need for LESS boxing ,I enjoy playing my war and if I have to log my paladin on to keep me alive in some places well then fine but then for dps guess what I gotta log my pet classes on and for bosses maybe it should be expected but I have to log my wizards on.. Basically I went from a computer that was only able to handle 3 box play so I had my war pally and necromancer for awhile, now I can box 20 no sweat but I DONT WANT TO!  If you think about our server in alot of cases if you can kill the mob before it kills you then your survivability is pretty good..This is actually the case with warriors aswell because of our aoe we can kill a train of mobs that if given enuf time could actually kill me and sometimes due to lag or disconnect or other unforeseen issues does. :)

Considering where warrior dps is right now and where my paladins is, I dont think asking for an aug update is asking too much, just even out a bit with paladin atleast and Id be happily duoing or soloing alot more..As for the fear of war paladin overpopulated server, paladins are of course widely used and wars aswell but its the aoe that makes wars popular..If there were perhaps some augs made to aoe in the same regard that would certainly open up alot more class popularity and as we know there are already those that think boxing 4 necros with a paladin is a great idea and or multiple wizards or multiple beastlords..,I think ppl will play whatever they enjoy given the chance but obviously alot of us cannot becuz of restrictions or unbalanced issues etc..Obviously there are far more balancing issues on our server then just the fear of cookie cutter war/pally forever.
Your thoughts again?

Nocca

Does your warrior have almost 6 Icestrike VI? The Firestrike will hit a good bit harder because Knights can't DW and load'em up. DWing the Icestrikes should give a more similar damage output. The Anger augs gave warriors an easy mode threat generation and damage explosion. Eventually, Hunter added the -strikes to give other classes a fighting chance. After those appeared, we saw less of the warrior/cleric trains and more of the warrior/paladin/sk trains. Now that the cleric melee proc will scale with Amplify Healing, we are starting to see slight variations (but still predominately plates).

Once your warrior does have nearly 6 Icestrike VIs, I would expect the damage to balance out a bit. I cannot give exact numbers as I am not near my gaming machine at the moment to log in and check. Point still being, there needs to be SOME compromise. If warriors want godmode dps, they need to give the godmode survivability to the knights. If warriors want godmode survivability, they need to expect formidable (but not top) DPS. If you want both in the same package, you are a fool.  I would LOVE to be able to just run 6 wizards around, but that just isn't it the cards. I also understand that if I could do that, I am either incredibly skilled or taking advantage of some cheesy mechanic. Even if such wasn't the case, I am not begging/pleading/fighting to get better mitigation for wizards.

Right now it seems that because the free dropped/crafted augs are not as good as the explosively expensive ones...it's unbalanced? If the augs were free and fit all melee, then yeah let's just up Angers and get rid of the -strike augs. That does also remove a great deal of what make MMORPGs fun, CUSTOMIZATION. Maybe it is just the ~4h of sleep I've had, but maybe not.

Lastly, yes this is a private server. However, just because it isn't endorsed by any massive corporation does not mean we have to piss any chance of balance all to hell just because a few players want cruise-control-for-cool classes. I wouldn't mind some higher Anger augs, as long as they have the same disgustingly boring/expensive build up as the -strikes and are on par. Easy to get augs with top-end damage that are class exclusive tend to herd the player base towards that class. Warriors have higher hp/mitigation, SK has dps heals, paladins have group heal and slight cleanse. Warriors have best Stonewall, paladins get just above half of the warriors' stonewall, and the SK gets nothing. Pick your poison friend.


tl;dr - Compromise. You must make some.

-Hate

SKs can tank as good or better than warrior with lifetap....They can also do a form of CoH which isn't bad, even if it isn't a combat ability per se.

Oh SKs are formidable, but that was my point. SKs have lifetap heals. Paladins get group heals/cleanse. Warriors get best mitigation. Each tank type has a speciality and a weakness, but none of the three are without weakness. That makes them optional and does not REQUIRE a set class.

-Hate

Making warriors so people will feel better about solo'ing them better will do nothing but make people who box more powerful. If you want to solo, play an SK