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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Khaoticz on April 21, 2013, 01:06:11 pm



Title: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Khaoticz on April 21, 2013, 01:06:11 pm
Just to give you an idea of resistance rating needed for HoH, 5 tiers under my current content....

- Ultimate Longsword I  =  100
- RoA under rank 100     =  0
- SoA 27                         =  27
- SoT II                           =  50
- Resist Aug IV x6          =  120
- Resist Aug VIII x3        =  120
- Full T6 gear                  = Obsolete
- Epics                            = Obsolete
- UC                                =  250  T2 players wont have this


A total resistance rating of  ------   1242

You said yourself that it " should in theory " be around 4-5 V augs to be good in hoh

- add another 30 resist since I was using IV's   =  1272

There is no way a T2 group is going to sit there and farm every slot for each character ( mind you T6-7 have 51 slots, T2 has maybe less then half of that ) just to progress into HoH

- Floor 3 is easy with uw and T6 toons, but still very easy to die as well due to needing such a ridiculous amount of resist

- That would mean farming Stone I's for each V they need....say 51 slots needed for a T6/7......... 816 stones to get 51 V augs, per toon

- Less then half say ex: 16 I think its around.... 352 stones per character just to move on

- Full group for T6/7 ......   4896 rank 1 stones
- Full group for T1-T4......  1536 rank 1 stones


- Resist needed for HoH ..... Over 2400 , tested by stone who didnt resist at ~2400


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Xiggie | Stone on April 21, 2013, 02:38:55 pm
Yeah, I have to say that if I was new here and I encounter hoh, was told to run on over to tofs for resist augs, go there and start farming that out only to learn I am going to need thousands upon thousands of these augs AND I have to take out my hp augs.... I would have quit. As it is right now I think as the people who are above this content eventually quit we will see our numbers begin to taper off. I would not want to be a newbie right now.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Khaoticz on April 21, 2013, 02:52:05 pm
Sucks going from doing pulls of 10 in T6 to getting your ass handed to ya on floor 3


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: jmaneuv011 on April 21, 2013, 03:33:18 pm
Please don't say that.  We don't need every t6 mob casting charm also


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Xiggie | Stone on April 21, 2013, 04:27:58 pm
For one toon to get a rank 20 aug for a grand total of 100 resists for one slot it will take 524,288 V1's. I can't see someone hoh level making it into floor 3 so they will be relegated to floors 1 and 2 if they have the group makeup to survive. This is for one slot on one toon. That is over 5 million kills. If there is a 5 minute respawn and I am guessing about 30 mobs on floor one or 2 and you keep the mobs down 100% of the time you will need to clear it 174,763 times. With a 5 minute respawn your looking at about 20 MONTHS of solid killing... plus kill time... for one slot... for one toon.

Picking the zone that no one likes and spreading what they don't like about it to other zones and then forcing them to go into that zone so they can go back to the other zones, that they now don't like is not the way to add challenge. It is the way to make people not like the server.



Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Fugitive on April 21, 2013, 04:35:35 pm
HoH spells are unbalanced horribly atm the expectations of what players can do is way over what they are....if players are monkey stomping this zone cause they are 5+ tiers higher DEAL with-it:


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Xiggie | Stone on April 21, 2013, 04:45:45 pm
To be viable in this zone you need minimum 1900 resists so lets revise what I have on here. To get 1900 resists your going to need to farm out an 18 resist aug for each slot. This brings you down to a much more reasonable 5 months of farming. Per toon. This is horribly broken to an extreme level.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Peign on April 21, 2013, 05:05:38 pm
Players should be monkey stomping a zone that they are 5+ tiers higher than.   Especially when they have the elite of the elite gear.   


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Hunter on April 21, 2013, 07:02:05 pm
Probably going to tweak hohonora to have even lower resist, around maybe 1000, give noobs chance to catch up with Heroic Resist farming in ToFS, which won't take much to resist the -1000 resist checks.

Inside ToFS I think I made lot of the Rank I at -1000 resist check, then Rank II at -3000 resist check, and Rank III at -5000 resist check.
Some spells like root and charm have only 1 rank so I made them higher resist checks.
Going to edit ToFS resist again and make lower. Maybe ranks I, II, and III npc spells will be -1k, -2k, -3, checks instead, so even Fugitive would probably resist stuff on Floors 1-4 but start getting hit again on Floor 5+ unless gets some more resist.
Unranked spells like Roots and Charms, will probalby make them -1k resist checks for now, and then rank them later for higher floors.

My intentions are to add new content and make things more interesting. Personally I think mobs that either cast nothing, or just 1 spell, or player resist all spells by default, is just boring. Getting high heroic resist shouldn't take that long, not like other grind quest like RoA, SoA, UC, etc. Should go a lot faster ranking up your resist. I'm not trying to nerf noobs or make a boring grind.

Stated in game before, that 2012 was about HP (breaking 1 million hp) and this year 2013 is about Resist. Lets see what everyones resist are in about a week or two, and I bet a lot of people will be resisting 100% of stuff with minimum efforts.

Any feed back on T3/T4 zone for Avatars? Killing faster, err umm same rate as before the spell changes? Made their HP lower so hoping to increase how fast can kill them.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Khaoticz on April 21, 2013, 07:21:55 pm
Most annoying aspect of ToFS is not being able to resist the continuous knockback / stun effects that happen almost every other second.

....Once you can resist the rain your golden, problem is that never happens


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Xiggie | Stone on April 21, 2013, 07:27:49 pm
Just going to throw this suggestion out there. Instead of 5 HR per rank make it 50. Give the augs their own slot in Ear, Ring, Face, Neck, Belt and Shoulder. That is 8 slots. At rank 5 that would put you at 2000 HR plus the 550 from your capped resists. To keep people from getting 4k resists with t1 gear just make it so the HR aug rank 6 and up is a different aug slot that wont fit into T1/2 gear. Every couple of tiers of content put the upgraded slot on the new gear you get from that zone. If you make 1 - 5 say fits into the slots I suggested with aug type 3 4 5 and 6 (just throwing random numbers out there, logistics can be worked out) and put a slot type 3 on T1/2 and 4 on T3/4 5 on T5/6 etc. You can then take the 6 to 10 augs and make them 4 5 and 6, 11 to 15 5 and 6, etc. This will keep people coming back to ToFS but not having to spend months and months farming augs. It also allows people to keep the thousands of hp they have put into their armor from t1/2.

Then tweak hoh so that when you go in there you get hit by everything but with the resist augs from ToFS you get hit by nearly nothing... if you are full resist geared. Upping the amount of resists offered gives you a lot more playing room to get it right instead of narrowing it so there is little room for variance.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Hunter on April 21, 2013, 07:38:53 pm
Most annoying aspect of ToFS is not being able to resist the continuous knockback / stun effects that happen almost every other second.

....Once you can resist the rain your golden, problem is that never happens

Just lowered resist for those except I think Stun still has high chance, but root and flux and rains are all much lower -resist checks now.

Some stuff I gotta make ranks, like root, stun, charm, then the rank 1's on floor 1 will all be like -1000 resist check max.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Khaoticz on April 21, 2013, 07:43:47 pm
not trying to put you out there xiggie, but a T1 cant get 4k resists :)


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Xiggie | Stone on April 21, 2013, 08:01:32 pm
Oh I know. But if the resist amount was moved up as I suggested and a person spent enough time in there they could certainly get them up that high.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Hunter on April 21, 2013, 08:38:21 pm
not trying to put you out there xiggie, but a T1 cant get 4k resists :)

Only need 4k resist on maybe ToFS floors 5-7, maybe just Floor 7.

Lots of stuff got reduced already.

Need to clone a few things though like Root, Stun, Charm, and then make them multiple ranks with different resist chance per floor.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Khaoticz on April 21, 2013, 08:42:57 pm
honestly just remove charm from tofs, the root resist check seems similar to the rain spells on ea floor or i was atleast resisting them all


- just add resist check of maybe 200 higher then the rain spell for each floor , requiring you to farm augs before moving on, and allowing it to get easier with no stun effects while doing so

- 1500 resist check on floor 3 , make stun resist check 1700 , and floor 4 is 2500 resist check.... allowing you to farm augs quicker to go up to the next floor


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Khaoticz on April 21, 2013, 09:07:02 pm
Keep resist checks for HoH the way they are

Change the following

- Stun resist check to 1200
- Requires them to get UC and items / augs before they will get past 1200
- Allows people with 1200+ to clear faster

- Disease Cloud 2 still lands with almost 1400 resist
- Packmaster still lands with almost 1400 resist


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Mattnaik on April 22, 2013, 07:15:08 am
Hunter, any chance you can add a recipe to combine a HP aug with any resist aug creating a HP/resist aug that way we dont have to sacrifice HP for resist?


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Griz on April 22, 2013, 07:18:19 am
Yeah not everyone uses a warrior tank, some of us actually need hp augs to not get one rounded :(


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Khaoticz on April 22, 2013, 08:36:15 am
With resists the way they are for HoH it is easy for a T2 group to move in and be fine, pet classes still need a higher resist rating on each tier of the pet.

- Make T6 Resist Aug
- Make an option to combine T7 leafs with HR Rank 5 augs to get both
- Until then as it stands hoh will get easier once T2 move in and work on charms / gear so they can move up floors in ToFS
- I'm pretty positive that they can find someone doing SoT runs and get scepters for their group ( 25 HR per rank )


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Peign on April 22, 2013, 10:04:34 am
Has anyone tested HoH with a T2 group with charms 25?     The HoH changes seem better but unless it is tested with an actual T2 group you will not get an accurate assessment.

It looks like vice being an optional zone, tofs is now required for progression.


I'm not sure that a persons ability to buy and or get an SoT run or any run for that matter should be a factor in zone balancing.

1500 resists is resisting most spells in HoH, which is good as 1500 resists do not happen magically.


Danke


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Anuli on April 22, 2013, 05:58:13 pm
I think xiggie has it mostly figured out. Increase the amount of resists to a larger amount pre rank, like 25 or 50, and limit them to 8 slots. Add an aug slot to each of the four basics: chest arms legs etc. and make aug type 5.

Then rank them up by level, 71 being rank 1-4
72 being rank 5-8, 73 being rank 9-12, 74 being rank 13-16 and lvl 75 being rank 17-20.

Even at 25 per rank, keeping 1 per armor gives a full set of rank 4 on a lvl 71 a 800 heroic resist, so total of 1300.

Also, without my FWP i can make a rank 5 in 20 minutes. It would take me 11 hours to get one rank 10. Fully auging 8 slots would take 8-16 days of playing more than 4 hours a day. Per toon. I think the drop rate could be raised in this case to 1:2 so that it's achievable across multiple accounts.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Fugitive on April 22, 2013, 06:00:45 pm
band-aids on bullet holes.. a lot of good ideas but.... the cause is still flawed, can't auto-tune the game around 5-8 players that play to much.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Khaoticz on April 22, 2013, 06:02:45 pm
To resist HoH it's approximately 600 resists, you get full T2 and your damn near close if not over 600 with AA's.


SoT runs should be free if people are doing them for extra HR, as they can sit in the raid and get credit....cant tell me everyone is that plat hungry to help a noob, without going out of there way to do it


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Khaoticz on April 22, 2013, 06:04:20 pm
band-aids on bullet holes.. a lot of good ideas but.... the cause is still flawed, can't auto-tune the game around 5-8 players that play to much.


Very true, but his " botters " is why its getting auto tuned, and now that HoH is changed it's actually 10x easier then it was before once they get their resist up, but people would rather complain then go to ToFS


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Kedar on April 22, 2013, 06:07:24 pm
Spells still land rarely at 1071 and uncommonly at 930 in HoH, so I don't think 600 would resist any of them.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Khaoticz on April 22, 2013, 06:37:55 pm
having over the resist doesnt mean you will resist 100% of them, just means thats where you will start to resist spells


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Hunter on April 22, 2013, 07:55:32 pm
Mobs in HoHonora have very low resist check spells now. Wouldn't take much to get Heroic up to a point of resiting them 100%.

If your too stubborn and refuse to go to ToFS and hang out on Floor 1 for a few hrs to get a few rank 4-5's then I can't help ya.

I don't know why sometimes mobs in hoh were spamming spells. In the end, I put them at 1% chance, and would get them to cast 1x per 5 round, then all of a sudden they'd cast 5 in a row. Maybe RNG hitting 1% got stuck? Its chance to cast spell per melee swing.

And yes, hoh is 10x easier than before. Even the bosses are 1/2 HP now. Spend 1 day in ToFS, get 100% resist to hoh, and those hoh mobs have 30% less hp,dmg,regen.

Also, made Avatars charmable. Its tested and working. So a few classes can have fun with that.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Hunter on April 22, 2013, 07:56:31 pm
Also the amount of resist needed or resist check I think also is influenced by the difference in level.

You might resist a level 70 mob casting a spell on you, but a level 90 npc casting that same spell would have a higher resist check and land on you.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Hampage on April 22, 2013, 10:42:26 pm
I've barely played lately so take what I say with a grain of salt, but...

If your too stubborn and refuse to go to ToFS and hang out on Floor 1 for a few hrs to get a few rank 4-5's then I can't help ya.

For years you've said that UC/RoA/SoA/SoT/whatever else are not required to progress, but now you expect players to go to a zone that is outside of the normal progression and we are required to get these stones to get our heroic resists up?

Just to give an idea on resists my warrior is full T4/4.0/UC1/SoT1 and my resists are 850. My other warrior is full T4, but no UC or SoT and his resists with full AA are 550.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: red2 on April 22, 2013, 10:55:48 pm
just cleared most of HoH ( no valor, UW).
pulling a few t6 necro pet would do fine, pull more than 5 and would get raped.
died to abyss, heavens, storms, hate bunch. ironically, lived through first 2 rooms hell. something is not right when a t6 pet cannot survive in HoH. had UC pally healing ( rest grp lived just fine) and was twisting cure clicky.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up ... ATTN: Hunter
Post by: Brokyn on April 23, 2013, 01:30:49 pm
Hunter,

As it stands, it would take someone over 3 million first floor drops to raise enough HR augs to equip a group of 6 toons with 1 rank 20 aug each...

If you made the augs combine 1+1+1+1 like the leaves in T7 do, it would still take someone 2040 drops to gear a full group of 6 toons with a full set of HR augs.  That's a lot of time committment, and a lot more reasonable than 54 million drops (3 million X 18 slots)...

Please consider changing the combine to something a little more manageable.

Thanks


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Sarthin on April 23, 2013, 04:59:46 pm
Balancing zones would be easier if epics and also perhaps armor would have resists on them that would be close to what they met in the zones. That way it would be easier to tune resistances when you add new zones with new npcs with spells. HoH should be more or less trivial for t5+ players. I love the idea of going to new zones to gear up resistancewise though. Makes me think of other mmorpgs that introduced new zones that required players to revisit old zones for resistance gear or other beneficial items to defeat new encounters in new zones. I think we can agree the resistance stones should be obtainable in a faster manner though.



Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Gilthanas on April 23, 2013, 05:34:25 pm
Any feed back on T3/T4 zone for Avatars? Killing faster, err umm same rate as before the spell changes? Made their HP lower so hoping to increase how fast can kill them.

Hey Hunter,

It is taking me at least twice as long to clear heavens because even though I can down an avatar in less than 5 seconds, it is almost guaranteed that they will root me for 40 seconds with nearly 1200 resist.

I'm totally cool with every other change you've made, but can you pleeeeease go back to only earth and underworld being able to root?

Just a guess, but I have a feeling you weren't intending for people to have to sit there for 30 seconds in root after the mob is already dead.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Fugitive on April 23, 2013, 07:35:27 pm
Joy another 8 of 12 dead...(T7)

Floor 1 and 2 just stun twirl after stun twirl... 3,150 Resists..



I forgot... where is the fun supposed to be?? .. Gravity Flux every goon in T7 and massive DD/AoE ... get that off the attack chance.. it is procing over kill..

None of this is FUN at all.. I still don't even understand the reasoning behind all this..

The EZ grind was fun now it's just not worth doing a maxxed toon ++ toon can't even ..... whatever

and if you don't have a donator clicky cure.. you are FK'D

and it's also nice to know .. how ever much you grow your toon it will take you the same amount of time to clear as it did when you started.. wow .. f u n


if you are going to make it that retarded hard .. make the bat chance way higher and more drops.. there is no reward for that.. even full T7 still getting wailed on period.



Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Dinadas on April 23, 2013, 07:58:11 pm
I willbe your noob guinea pig.

Just getting to hoh

My toons are Dinadas war (almost full 25 charms) 3.0's
Skuge Pally (full 25 charms ready full v2) 3.0
mulcis Shm(25 oracle) 3.0
Shehez Mage crap charms 3.0
Yesharke zerker 22sorc 3.0
Vutaa zerker 7 sorc 3.0

Finishing my charms then will try hoh 550 resists mostly full Aa respectively dps/tanking etc

No Roa and no augs 400k currently one crafter guild character.

One thought from a noob, maybe 2 components from PoD could combine to make a stone, would make progression more linear if I need heroic resist to do HOh.  If floor 1 of tofs is camped I can't afford to instance that zone to farm as a new player.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Xiggie | Stone on April 23, 2013, 08:00:02 pm
/who loping all

There are no players in Everquest that match those who filters.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Hunter on April 24, 2013, 02:07:11 am
I'll be doing more tweaks this weekend, focus on why mobs cast more often than they should, some lower resist rates, and maybe remove stuns etc. Already removed Avatars charming you.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Hunter on April 24, 2013, 02:21:19 am
Until I get time to test things further to make them work as intended, I've edited the resist for Roots, Stuns, Flux to be about -300 check for ToFS, T3/T4, and T7 which should make these spells a non issue now.

NPC Charm player removed from Avatars.

Flux and other spells with push back effects had their distance shorted to 1.

Will go into affect after reboot. No spell file needed yet.

Should be easy mode again, minus some of the rains or debuffs to deal with.

Will work on it more this weekend. Right now taking a break from stuff, and reading email/feed back of course.



Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Gilthanas on April 24, 2013, 02:19:06 pm
Until I get time to test things further to make them work as intended, I've edited the resist for Roots, Stuns, Flux to be about -300 check for ToFS, T3/T4, and T7 which should make these spells a non issue now.

Thanks a ton Hunter.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Sarthin on April 25, 2013, 03:45:10 am
Until I get time to test things further to make them work as intended, I've edited the resist for Roots, Stuns, Flux to be about -300 check for ToFS, T3/T4, and T7 which should make these spells a non issue now.

Thanks a ton Hunter.

+100


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Khaoticz on April 25, 2013, 06:16:41 am
I've barely played lately so take what I say with a grain of salt, but...

Just to give an idea on resists my warrior is full T4/4.0/UC1/SoT1 and my resists are 850. My other warrior is full T4, but no UC or SoT and his resists with full AA are 550.

Your resists do not add up...

UCv1 = 250
SoT1 = 25

Your 4.0's and T4 are obsolete when it comes to HR.

Which if your main has those his resists should be 825 not 850.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Dinadas on April 25, 2013, 09:42:28 am
Had my first trip into HoH with my group of 6.

At 550-600 resists my group resisted the stun and root pretty consistently, the AE poison, debuff, disease looking debuff were all landing, not sure if I resisted them or not ever.  I logged it if someone wants to parse it for data.

I think the only reason I didn't wipe to the dot was on my very first pull the RNG was gracious and gave me the new SHM group heal, so if a fight ended with the dot i could patch the group and run to the next fight so the pally proc could cleanse it.

Though my Mage and one zerker died to the dot a few times, when I missed it.  I got my 3.5 book on my pally, but will hold off on turnins until it's fully tweaked for the sake of science.

As is, it felt like a natural progression from PoD to HoH.  I didn't feel underpowered, and without augs I wasn't killing things ultra fast, Shadow fight took awhile.

I think I would have had a tough time, if i hadn't gotten the group heal right away though.  Several wipes due to RC3 being down or the shaman cure being a long cast.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Chunka on April 25, 2013, 10:11:07 am
The resists and whatnot were changed a night or 2 ago, and things arent anywhere near as bad as they were, Woog. Also I think charm was removed.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Dinadas on April 25, 2013, 11:09:02 am
Yeah, I know that.

But as the T2 noob guinea pig, I'm saying with base resists things are still landing with the current changes.

Since hunter said he was going to tweak it more i thought as is reply was needed.  Some of the spells still land on me consistently, might be balanced for a just finished PoD group. 

Maybe there is away to have the equal of "heroic" mode from WoW where there is an NPC at the start of the zone that you can hail and have it respawn the zone with the tweaked mobs.  And the reward being no pages and maybe double loot, etc.  Maybe there is a way of disabling that in the public version and keep it instances, or as part of the new instance code.  Would allow people farming do it more efficiently with the challenge.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Hunter on April 25, 2013, 11:31:48 am
With practically under 10 hr sleep in 3+ days, everything is a blur to me right now.

I forgot what I did to resist except I remember making stuns at -300 (any noob can resist that) and removed charms from Avatars.

Forgot about rains and poisons, etc, what their resist are or how people are doing with it.

Someone emailed me that even if you resist stun spells, you still get knocked back? I didn't realize this. I remember I been tweaking knock back effects anyways to have like a 1 value instead of a a 4-11 values.

Just keep me posted, will try to balance out. Just trying to create a challenge without being impossible, and something that isn't so boring you could auto attack key and then watch tv at same time. Sorry I made too hard.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Dinadas on April 25, 2013, 11:52:53 am
Right now the dots are killer if not on top of it, but managable if you are paying attention.  But that's mostly because I got the new group heal spell for shaman right off the bat.

I resisted all roots that I remember along with stuns.

the other 3 spells landed regularly but I never wiped completely.  My lower hp toons died a few times from the dot.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Gilthanas on April 25, 2013, 12:05:41 pm
As is, it felt like a natural progression from PoD to HoH.  I didn't feel underpowered, and without augs I wasn't killing things ultra fast, Shadow fight took awhile.

Good feedback, Woogie (that's my cat's nickname dude, hope you weren't trying to sound intimidating lol).

Did Shadow feel like he was coming really close to killing your tank? Something seems a little off if you can kill Shadow the first night you spend in HoH. But if your tank and heals were basically as geared as they possibly could be coming from T2, I guess that makes sense. Its not like you can kill MCP already (or can you???)

I was so thrilled to not get rooted every fight last night that I stayed up at least 3 hours later than normal farming HoH.

If anyone is working on their UC right now that doesn't need Oracle V2s, pst in game. I no longer need Brawler and Guardian V2s, but need 11 Oracles.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Dinadas on April 25, 2013, 04:13:40 pm
He wiped me today twice, might have gotten lucky. All but one of my guys has a focus lil 3 charms. Both healers at 25.

Full t2 on all toons only really missing IA2 for more dps.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Dinadas on April 27, 2013, 01:59:30 pm
What I would do in HoH, if you are trying to make it more interesting is have each minion cast an appropriate spell

ents- root
succubus charm

etc.

Then it's not purely random, and a group can target them first or not pull them at all.

You could prevent it or deal with it with some strategy, where as random is just mean and tiresome.

On top of that maybe to offer incentive to kill everything if you clear every type of storm mob(avatars and thunder storms) a chest spawns, maybe twice the gems of an avatar and the page for that type of mob guaranteed, maybe 1/4 chance of a v2.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Kwai on April 27, 2013, 02:50:10 pm
Valuable input from a tier equal player.  However, if each succubus cast charm it would be a long day in Hell.  :(

Charm is very bad news.  Even with a T-7 chanter on board things can go real bad real fast if your (UW Equipped) tank doesn't resist.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Dinadas on April 27, 2013, 07:35:22 pm
Fair, maybe mez then?


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Fugitive on April 27, 2013, 07:41:41 pm
no this is a bad idea , sorry you don't know how much time you have to spend in HoH even when you "get thru" you don't really get thru for like double or triple your EZ play time..


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Gannicus on April 28, 2013, 12:17:17 am
no this is a bad idea , sorry you don't know how much time you have to spend in HoH even when you "get thru" you don't really get thru for like double or triple your EZ play time..

Lol double or triple, more like your entire EZ server play time.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Dinadas on April 28, 2013, 05:50:39 am
well he said the resists would be trival to over tiered players.

So I interpreted that as I want to make it more interesting, and if you don't want to deal with it go farm ToFS first floor for a few hours and you will resist it all.



Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Xiggie | Stone on April 28, 2013, 04:36:57 pm
For a few hours? Getting a fully t2 group enough resists to resist hoh would take more than a few hours. More like a few weeks. Effects that take over your toon(s) have been described nearly universally as super annoying. There is what, nearly 5 pages of people urging Hunter to modify the effects and lower the amount of resists needed to resist them with major complaints about the very things you are now suggesting Hunter put back in. What you consider interesting most others find annoying. As for it being trivial to over tiered players, that does not mitigate the annoyance that people who are needing gear from hoh.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Sarthin on April 28, 2013, 05:55:16 pm
HoH is one of those zones you need to spend ALOT of time in. Mostly due to UC farming and dont forget the endless amounts of tokens you need for T3/T4. I really feel sorry for new players entering this zone. IMO charm is bad period. I wouldnt think of it as an interesting challenge in any zone, its just annoying as hell.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Hampage on April 28, 2013, 06:07:27 pm
well he said the resists would be trival to over tiered players.

So I interpreted that as I want to make it more interesting, and if you don't want to deal with it go farm ToFS first floor for a few hours and you will resist it all.



People aren't trying to crap on your suggestions per se, but HoH is not like the zones before it, you don't just spend a few hours or even days here, you will spend hundreds of hours and months of time in this zone to get enough tokens and charms to be successful in T5 and beyond.

As far as resists go, Hunter has already said he cut the resists down to 300, so in theory everyone should resist the majority of spells in HoH, my Warrior and 2 Paladins with UC/SoT1 and over 800 resists do not resist anything. I might resist 1 spell out of 10, but when I pull a mob to my group, my paladin ends up with 3-4 spells on him by the time he gets back tot he group and of course the dispells.

I don't think that telling people, "just farm in ToFS" is a response. ToFS is not in the normal progression of this server and those resist stones shouldn't even enter the equation until T7, if at all, Fugitive has stated he still gets hit with stuff all the time and he has over 3000 resists.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Dinadas on April 28, 2013, 07:43:48 pm
Until I get time to test things further to make them work as intended, I've edited the resist for Roots, Stuns, Flux to be about -300 check for ToFS, T3/T4, and T7 which should make these spells a non issue now.

NPC Charm player removed from Avatars.

Flux and other spells with push back effects had their distance shorted to 1.

Will go into affect after reboot. No spell file needed yet.

Should be easy mode again, minus some of the rains or debuffs to deal with.

Will work on it more this weekend. Right now taking a break from stuff, and reading email/feed back of course.



I'm not trying to be defensive.  I was only offering suggestions because this post made me believe the current state is not the end state.  As an on tier group, if I do not pay attention I can wipe in the current state.  My suggestions were only given as a possible tweak.

And the few hours, was from another hunter post, where he said basically go farm tofs for a few hours and you will resist everything in HoH, which I figured some of the tweaks would be in line with that perspective.

I'd prefer there be some rhythm or reason to what is casting what is all.  Instead of everything can cast everything mode.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Fugitive on April 28, 2013, 07:50:03 pm
And the few hours, was from another hunter post, where he said basically go farm tofs for a few hours and you will resist everything in HoH, which I figured some of the tweaks would be in line with that perspective.


The thing about it is Hunter doesn't play so go farm a few hours.. really means go farm more then a week countless for your primary team (ToFS is hard for a HoH group).. is it his fault no, not really. The ideas you have a good ideas.. but mez, charms and knockback rooting are the gayest of the gay... you will be spending countless hours in the zone..

2 sets of Gear per toon
Charms V2s
Tokens (which have been ninja'd way way way way to low considering if a grossly over tiered play can only get a few per clear how does he expect a new person to get enough to even do the bosses..)
3.5s all around..
Page farming

I still have to return to HoH...


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Hampage on April 28, 2013, 08:18:32 pm
I'd prefer there be some rhythm or reason to what is casting what is all.  Instead of everything can cast everything mode.

This is one thing I don't understand about these changes. HoH used to have different avatars cast different spells. It was interesting and when you were new to the zone you didn't really know what to expect, I tell you the first time I got gravity fluxed by the Avatars of Storms (or is it skies?) I didn't know what the hell happened. Fighting the avatars of Hell, if you didn't know they had a massive damage shield you would continually die to them like I did for the first several clears I did of that zone. Valor stunned, Earth rooted. Each avatar had its own spells and when breaking into the zone they were tough enough.

Now everything casts the same spells, so why even have the different models in there?, just make them giant human models and call it a day.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Gannicus on April 28, 2013, 09:23:56 pm
Now everything casts the same spells, so why even have the different models in there?, just make them giant human models and call it a day.

Honestly, why not bunch everything mob in zone into a single room! Aha sounds like a plausible idea to me


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Dinadas on April 29, 2013, 07:01:47 am
Heavens rampage
Earth root or snare, or druid based DS.
Storms - 10k lightening AE
Skies - G flux
Underworld - while alive boost melee damage of avatar(2 horses would = shadow level of dps) (Not sure this is possible coding wise)
Hell - lifetap ~10k
Abyss - 45k over 6 ticks dot uncurable magic based
Hate - mem blur or maybe some mechanic that makes them lock onto someone other then the tank, also not sure this is possible
Valor - one LoH, or a mechanic that they will protect the avatar if it gets under a certain HP point and suicide for AE damage, or stun.

I think most of these would not impact over tiered players, healing and hp wise would just be a wash, and would keep on tier people on their toes.

And leave the avatars with just the Poison Dot, similar to random PoD dragons just dot.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Gannicus on April 29, 2013, 11:28:01 pm
Why not revert back to what HOH used to be per avatar base, not add ridiculous things like such to what was working fine before all this craziness started going on.

- Not that I have much room to talk as i'm no longer active, t5 got the best of me lol


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Hunter on April 30, 2013, 01:07:06 am
Why not revert back to what HOH used to be per avatar base, not add ridiculous things like such to what was working fine before all this craziness started going on.

- Not that I have much room to talk as i'm no longer active, t5 got the best of me lol

I already did 2 days ago but nobody noticed.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Hunter on April 30, 2013, 02:20:38 pm
Seems these in the rule values table might affect the way things are being resisted:

Spells:AutoResistDiff
Spells:ResistChance
Spells:ResistMod
Spells:ResistPerLevelDiff
Spells:ResistFalloff


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Hampage on April 30, 2013, 04:35:13 pm
Why not revert back to what HOH used to be per avatar base, not add ridiculous things like such to what was working fine before all this craziness started going on.

- Not that I have much room to talk as i'm no longer active, t5 got the best of me lol

I already did 2 days ago but nobody noticed.

Hmm, I created a guild instance of HoH last night and cleared it once before bed, they all appeared to still be casting every spell, I know Storms didn't gravity flux, Earth didn't root and Hell had no DS


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Hunter on April 30, 2013, 06:00:07 pm
Sigh, I'm not sure what is broken. I put their old spell group ids back on.

Going to see what other edits I can do to fix it.

Has something to do with npc spells table.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: hateborne on April 30, 2013, 06:54:56 pm
Sigh, I'm not sure what is broken. I put their old spell group ids back on.

Going to see what other edits I can do to fix it.

Has something to do with npc spells table.


Dump the npc_spells table and npc_spells_entries tables to CSV, toss them my way (along with all the crafting IDs from last week or the week before).


-Hate


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Hunter on May 01, 2013, 05:01:18 pm
Hate, I sent ya email with info.

Also I continue to tweak ToFS, HoH, and T7 npc spells each day. Most of them are (should be) only 1% chance to cast per melee swing. Trying other stuff too like priority orders, resist rules, etc.

HoH already reverted back to their original spells, instead of 1 bigger spell group.

I would like to make each npc cast different spells. Just takes time. Before doing that need to find out why a 1% chance to cast a spell is going off with about 50% chance.

I got 50+ emails every day about EQ and hard to reply to everyone. I still read them all though if you have any feed back on current status of npc spells, and I read forums here too obviously. Just keep the feed back coming, and I'm sure we'll figure this out.



Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Hunter on May 01, 2013, 05:08:14 pm
Here is link to schema for npc_spells_entries table:

http://www.eqemulator.net/wiki/wikka.php?wakka=EQEmuDBSchemanpcspellsentries

Priority field will attempt to choose lowest value first as highest priority spell to cast.

I was trying priorities like:

Example Spell List:
-----------------------
1 - Stun
1 - Root
2 - DoT 1
2 - DoT 2
3 - Rain / AoE 1
3 - Rain / AoE 2
3 - Rain / AoE 3
4 - Blind
4 - Mana Drain
4 - Mez
5 - Charm

This way a fight would usually start off with a mob rooting you, then next time he'd dot you, then next he'd rain, and finally last thing mob would do is charm. Would be annoying if charm was top priority each fight.

Now I'm wondering, lets say the RNG choose to use Priority 3. Maybe its casting all the spells listed as priority 3 instead of choosing just 1 of the 3 spells in priority 3?

I might be noobing this up, dunno.

Also sent the npc spells tables to Hateborne to look at too.






Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Hunter on May 01, 2013, 05:17:21 pm
Not sure what this does either:

Spells:NPCIgnoreBaseImmunity   true   Whether or not NPCs get to ignore the BaseImmunityLevel for their spells.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Sarthin on May 01, 2013, 06:04:29 pm

Now I'm wondering, lets say the RNG choose to use Priority 3. Maybe its casting all the spells listed as priority 3 instead of choosing just 1 of the 3 spells in priority 3?

I might be noobing this up, dunno.



I did a test today in T7 when tanking a single npc for 5 minutes. He had 71 spell casts. 11 of them was either root/stun/flux. The 60 remaining was the rain spell. This probably shows pri. list is working. But you might also be onto something when it comes to casting all pri 3 at the same time. During several of the npc melee rounds in my 5 min test, the rain spell was casted up to 3 times in one round.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Fugitive on May 01, 2013, 06:28:10 pm

I did a test today in T7 when tanking a single npc for 5 minutes. He had 71 spell casts. 11 of them was either root/stun/flux. The 60 remaining was the rain spell.


good info for Hunter


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Drep on May 02, 2013, 11:03:10 am
Just probably a dumb idea...:)
Wouldn't it just be easier and possibly better if things went back to the way it was for lower tiers?  and just add the heroic resists to later tiers/progression and the gear you obtain from it?

If lower tiers now require heroic resists, shouldn't the gear/epics you obtain from the tiers have at least a little bit on them?   Why should epics and gear that you obtain from these tiers be obsolete.   

Just seems like some things were overlooked when making this update around the board.    Maybe needing heroic resists shouldn't start until a specific teir where you can just add those resists to the items that drop in those tiers.   That way, you start off struggling in that tier and then eventually as you collect gear you can meet expectations. 

Possibly make tofs floors 1/2 like a progression 6.5 tier to get those players ready for t7 resist needs.   remove the needed heroics from the lesser tiers since the gear/epics obtainable at those levels doesn't have any on it.


Title: Re: Resist Tune Up
Post by: Fugitive on May 02, 2013, 11:06:39 am
T7 Augs should have  + 7-10 HR each of.them...