EZ Server

Just a minor observation...

There has, for as long as T8 has been open - been a bit of an issue with agro rollover. If you wield a beefed out 6 man group, somewhat balanced, in my case its a Tank(war), Paladin, Cleric, Ranger, Monk, Bard - its simply impossible to keep agro from rolling over with the new regen on dragons/bosses.

Before the regen was changed, I was able to keep it form happening with Masked Strenght III - but I still think it was a bit anoying, having to get the ENC T8 enabled, only to cast 2 buffs and log off again.

I've been somewhat vocal about this in ooc even before the regen change, since in my optics it should be a somewhat easy fix (lower hp regen, HP, make ninjaPROC buyable or atleast farmable in other places the OT). Even if I were to use ninjaish items, the problem would still persist, since the tank loses agro 100% form one second to another, and dragons eat dps chars in fractions of a second even with SW pet and whatnot.

If this is working as intended, and agro-rollover is simply a part of the "FREE game" as Empti put it, I'd just like it confirmed, so that my wrongful perception on the issue can be corrected :-)

But I hope that something can be done, as of now I am still able to clear the place, its just blows having to mass ress the DPS'ers between each boss.

On a side note, I'd just like to express my deep gratitude for all the work that have been and is being done under the new administration - I really enjoy playing on the server, and the above issue is the only one I have/have had pretty much my entire stay here. Other than T5, that place still suck!

Thanks Danish for your post.

Hate has been enjoying some off time, but when he has a moment he will be able to respond in regards to the regen changes.

I haven't done t8 yet this week, but I'll give it a shot soon. The way I had been dealing with it was by using masked strength, a shoulder Aug, and ice strike x rather than nerds VI in my offhand. But like I said, haven't run the place since the regen add, although I've been working on adding more single target to my roster to help with the new regen.

When I do T8 bosses I have agro rollover like everyone else and this is how I deal with it:

I camped spirit of the ninja click item for 8 characters in ToFS, floor 7 off svartmane. BTW, worst camp ever lol.

I have a "no agro" hotkey set up for all those toons. all of my dps toons have coward stone X or IX in shoulder, I buff masked str 3 on all those dsp, including my pallys, cleric, everyone gets it. At 65% of the named health I hit my hotkey, and then again when it refreshes. I usually end up hitting it three times during the fight, the 3rd being in the last >10% of the fight.

I rarely have any dps die using this method. however, sometimes my bards still take a dirt nap, sometimes my monk does as well.

problem is, and I believe it will be addressed with the upcoming changes, with UW the named and trash's hps were jacked up to unreasonable levels. I would assume that the only way around this would be the mob's health would have to be effectively cut in half. Even with that though, there would still be a turn around problem.

the other solution is the ninga proc reward item which does it automatically during the fight, but that is a $25 fix per character, so in my case would be a $200 fix, not something I am willing to do.

bottom line is even with a hp reduction you will still have to visit Svartmane on floor 7 for several days. Or the pvp mob in OT can drop the item as well, but I have never set foot in that zone lol, I would rather camp Svartmane, as you have to camp him anyway for master essences for UW8+

You misunderstood what I said...  The "FREE game" comment was because I was frustrated at your complaints because you were not keeping up with current events.  Hate is busting his ass to work on game balance from T7 up.  Game balance including HP on PCs and NPCs, as well as damage output from PCs and NPCs. Changes are coming soon.  Be patient

have a hotkey to have your pally cast atonement on the mob every once in a while, and when he does, spam the crap out of your scepter of time (even works from inventory). Atonement is a memblur then 125k hate for your pally. Pallies are kinda tanks so they should be fine for that one round they might get. Atonement is on the wisdom vendor in qrg, so there's no excuse not to have it.

This only fails for agro rollover if you don't have a pally, or if your agro rolls over in under a minute or whatever the recast on Atonement is. I use this method when my tank gets charmed on the EoN mobs, and my pally can pick the mob up before any of my other toons even get looked at.

A good solution for this would be to have both warrior and SK get a version of atonement at somepoint so any tank can deal with agro rollover (until we get to such inflated numbers that agro rolls over in a couple rounds, heh.)

PS. I'm only I'm t5 so take my opinion how you will, but this seems like a good solution for a while at least.

The issue I'm trying to address, is the one where the tank loses agro for no apparent reason other than 'because'.

I think that it's great that you've come up with this solution for yourself Udeni, however the way I see it, it doesn't really apply to T8. Even paladins gets eaten up pretty quickly in there ;-)

what about a zone wide debuff that would reduce agro on each target every second by something like 50-75%

What about...  wait till Monday

The Monday patch shouldn't change much with this, but we can at least post info on the subject now for later speculation. I've dealt with this in 2 different successful ways so far. I never thought about using mem blurr. The issue has always been how much threat the warrior is generating.

The first method I tried was dumping as much threat off my warrior as possible. Absolutely no 250k hate procs in weapons. To my surprise, I still held aggro just fine with UW9. Unfortunately, I was still hitting the aggro cap right at 45% hp on the dragons, and it would chain to the monk. I made a hot key to tell the monk to use earthwalk (high mitigation disc low cd) As soon as the boss flipped, I would swap my offhand for a 6.0 epic with triple anger 4 augs. This method worked very well, buy got annoying quick. This lead me to look for something better.

I decided to try masked strength III on my entire raid, warrior included. This eliminated the aggro rollover entirely, and when the shoulder augs came out I added them in for good measure. Even with the new regen in ToV and very extended durations on boss encounters, I still have not had an aggro roll over after 4 full clears last night.

So, the reduced aggro stuff is amazing, but you need it on the warrior as well as the raid. If anyone is running multiple UWs in the raid, I imagine a simple fade key on the UW box would keep him safe.

That being said, should we consider removing the aggro bonus on warrior class augs?


-Hate

I think that could work, anger 4 x1 was more than enough to hold threat without UW, I'm sure people can balance around it by swapping Aug setup if needed.

I had the issue pre-change with Nerd V aswell - although I could fix it with Masked Strenght III then.

in all honesty I just like the ae on the anger Augs lol

I still have anger 5 in my offhand along with ice strike 10 (tserennias whip). I also have one with the new anger 6 in my bag I use for everything outside of t8. Only anger 4 and 6 have the bonus 250k threat proc. 5 does not.

Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while since I've had any issues with rollover, but if I recall correctly when rollover happens it isn't total mob agro rollover...it's specific to the amount of hate a particular PC has accrued.  What I mean is your warrior is constantly building agro, so are the rest of your toons but at a diminished rate.  Once your warrior hits that rollover amount, he's back to zero agro and that's why the mob goes after the next highest agro PC.  Before the ninja click shit was put in, I'd just let my monk be the second highest agro and had a hotkey command to tell him to earthwalk or w/e when the mob would flip on him and spam my scepter and proc my nerds to get agro back.  It was always a pretty effective way, even if it was inefficient, but I'd rarely lose more than one or 2 toons to eating ripostes before the warrior got agro back...usually before the monk disc fell.  If you farm the ninja click off svartmane like Rent said, all you have to do is /bca your toons to click their ninja fade on agro rollover and your warrior is right back to most hated.  If you are too lazy to farm ninja clicks or find them too inconvenient to bother clicking, you can use the de-agro shoulder augs and/or cast mask with your enchanter or hell...as long as the buff duration on it is multiple hours already, bum one off someone else.  I've never seen agro rollover more than once per fight, and maybe I'm wrong, but having to actually worry once per fight on tier bosses should be expected.

tl;dr There are already ways to account for this in game, it isn't that big a deal and if one thing doesn't work for you there are a multitude of things that work well together to minimize the impact of hitting rollover.

Theoretically when you cross the magic 2.1 billion hate boundary you're actually at negative 2.1 billion hate.  Since you are able to get accro back in a short period of time I assume there's something in the code that catches the negative amount and corrects it to zero.

I know people love huge numbers, but the emu isn't really built for it.  Unless someone is super brave and changes the hate list code to use 64-bit numbers the best solution is to squish the numbers so they are more in the range of what the emu is coded to handle.

I explained this and corrected this in the past by decimating the hate generation on several things. The only problem is that the damage got crazy high and a lot of my changes were undone. I've yet to have time to fully commit to finding an "elegant" solution to this though. :-\


-Hate

why was this regen thing necessary?  I can't wait till some noob hits omm for the first time and gets dt'd repeatedly and starts qq'ing

Can we get mask of strength line set to group spell plz?

that would be amazing.

yeah, cause the 1-2sec it takes to refresh is killing me...

I put it on all toons I got to help and it still doesnt. Just would be a little easier.

If it doesn't help, why cast it and why do we need a group version to make a useless spell easier?


-Hate

So right now the position on the issue is:

There is no 'elegant' solution to this agro roll problem, and until there is (as you wrote yourself, this has been an issue for a while now) we're left with odd makeshift solutions or booting up a second group for ToV+.

The reason that I brought this up, was to make sure that you were aware of this very annoying thing happening for no reason other than math and mechanics. I'm pretty sure that it wasn't intended as part of the 'challenge', when the zone was built.

Had it been intended that the bosses in this zone would FD your maintank or something like that, I'm sure, I would just have found a workaround for it via. whatever I was able to figure out.

But since my assumption was that it wasn't I was hoping for a more "lets fix this" attitude towards it - but of course I understand that its probably only an issue for 1 or 2 players - who isn't bringing a 12-18 toon-train to ToV. So your time is probably better spent on fixes where most of the playerbase is :-)

In any case, its nothing I'm too upset about - Gets a bit frustrating once in a while, but I think I've gotten what I wanted off my chest, and it should be no problem grinding on, even if it means clicking mass ress often and wasting a lot of the EZ water supply :)

Edit: Spelling :-/

Hate- because it gives me some hope that only 1 or 2 will die instead of 5-6 which it does. I was referring to it not fixing the problem completly. Sorry on my phone and texting sucks.

Would a source edit help rollover ?
For example... before hate is added to the hatelist reduce it by 90%? :p

I didn't say I was going to come up with a standard operating procedure. I've yet to come up with something on MY END to resolve/improve the situation cleanly/effectively ("elegantly").

---

I suggested similar to Hunter, only through Perl. Every X seconds, drop Y% of threat for everyone on hate list.



-Hate

In regards to the Regen change ~ Did T8 today and had the chance to observe the changes.  Before the change, a full UCv3 single group could take any of the regular bosses in maybe 30ish seconds give or take.  Added another UCv3 toon to the mix (doing T8 After regen change)and the bosses are actually taking much longer; not less time.  Another 50% if not more.  Trash goes down the same but this is due to regen not getting as many ticks.

I can't imagine the head ache this must be for a group just starting to break into T8, let alone keep up with the regen on Vulak.

tofs floor 7 is pretty fubar with agro right now.  my cleric was just meleeing and pulled agro every 5-10 seconds on tserrina...tserrina also took more than x2 the usual amount of time to kill

Just wanted to let you know, that as of the last adjustment to HP / Regen this is no longer an issue. At least not for me.

Thanks dev team!