EZ Server

So this past weekend a buddy and I were grinding away in Abyss when we spawned Tricholoma. To set the stage here - my group is War/Cleric/Monk/Zerk/Bard/Pal - War/Pal have UC1, rest are still working on it. All have at the very least up to their Strike5's done, few up to Strike7.

So my group has no problem with the namers in Abyss so far, no real issues till I come upon this guy. Grind him down to about 34%, look away from the screen and look back and BAM. 100%. So I grind him back down and this time - I notice that around 34-35% - he starts healing back super fast. Figure he's cast Skin of Drake on himself since he's a druid type mob. So round 3, I wait for the casting emote and start stunning/bashing. No joy - mob "continues casting" and back to 100%. Round 4 - stun/bash, mob continues casting still... so i try to dispell but with the cast time on dispell - by the time it hits, hes' 100% again. Round 5 - i get lucky with a dispell with what seemed like instantly after he cast it so this time he's only 45% health... by the time i grind him back down to 34% again - boom, "continues casting" and back up to 100%.

Is Drake a bit much of an advantage for some of these mobs? There's no indication to see when ti's up or when it's been successfully dispelled and he seems to be able to instantly cast it with no down time - only way we beat it is me having my buddy bring his group over and the 12 of us just eventually overpowered the heals with dps. Took forever but would have not been possible without the 6 extra people.

Can anyone tell me if I'm just sincerely missing something here or is this something that can garnish an extra look? Thx.

Monk epics have a click dispel, enchanters have a near instant HIGHLY powerful dispel, and numerous classes have Cancel Magic.

The cooldown is ~30s if memory serves.

-Hate

Thanks man - I'll give it a go tonight if I can and report back.

Bards have a dispel song. That is my weapon of choice for skin. I have only encountered skin from "Pride" in t7. So before I pull, I just make the bard twist dispel only and play from the monk's screen. As soon as her hp starts going up, just click epic. The problem you run into with dispelling is druid mobs tend to have quite a few buffs on themselves before you get down to dispelling skin on their buff list.

If you are running an enchanter, Blast of Vulnerability is a lovely way to say "STOP @#%$ING HEALING!" in 1 click.


-Hate

Awesome - so if bard is twisting dispell the entire time and then monk dispell should be primed and ready to nab the skin instantly.

Thanks for the input guys. Now looking forward to it.

we all run chanters hate, they are the defenders of the zone in :D

Mines not!!! Main group status!

Parsed on either the dummy or on boss fights my chanter pet does more dps than a UC2 strike 9 ranger :D

inc nerfs!

Well, yeah, but they were coming anyway. Hate plans to reduce melee speed on the pets (which was why they were such amazing dps....11 times as many procs as a player per minute). Her's going to find a way to compensate the damage, though.

Honestly, while I think the changes he has planned for pets sound pretty damned good I dont see why the DPS should be nerfed. While the pet dps is pretty damned heavy its situational, in a way. Need to get the mana neck to proc, and need to keep the pet alive. Its pretty well balanced as it is....and from what he's describing it'll stay so after he makes the changes.

Its been awhile since i remember a pet/dmg discussion going around but couldn't White dmg on the pet just be raised? I want to say at one point this was NOT possible due to coding or something of the such, but the same was said for white dmg on weapons for toons and that has changed, so... That may be a avenue.

Nah, I like the fact that you need to spend cash and resources the same way melee do for augs  to get pets to the point that they are decent dps. As it stands IMO works perfect. Only issue is balancing damage after hate slows down the pets.

actually comparbly buffed the dps is similar, but that is a problem as you can have a uc1 on mage and need a ucv2 on the melee to be comparable (pet wins slightly atm)

From talking to Hate I think he intends to address that issue.

Hey guys -

so last night I finally had the chance to go back into Abyss and test it out and sure enough - got myself a druid mob right off the bat (Mind Flayer). Wound up having the same issue so I took it to /ooc for some added help.

Had bard running his lvl 62 cancel magic spell and had monk epic on hotkey for insta click. At 34% - mob instantly heals back up to 44% (Drake) - I instantly use monk epic and mob stops healing. I dps him down and at 34% - bam - rinse, repeat... So people in /ooc tell me Drake should have a 30 sec cool down and I just have to get past that 34% before the 30 second timer is up so he wont recast Drake... So I dps away and get him down to 34% in about 15-18 seconds... and bam - 44% again. So I think the druids in there are ignoring the drake cooldown timer.

Just offering my 2cp on something that is causing heartburn.

^^ Crazy thing is you stayed with this mob for like an hour trying to kill it .. doing the cancel magic thing from bard and monk.. I still don't know if this is a "correct" challenge for a newb (no offense) breakin in the zone where no matter what you have to have this type of group make up to "win".

I wonder if the NPC ability drakeskin can be scaled where it isn't making the new players suffer to much.. as for all the players that's stacked with augments galore and multi-UCs (this has never been a factor for us to really attempt) That's why I can't test it well. (our arsenals have many tools)

shrug my 2 pennies

But on a side note.. this shows how OP the spell used to be ... before  Hate's recent alignment with it.  ;D

Totally man - would have been completely screwed if you didnt come help out.

But ya - got 2 toons with UC, all have strike augs up to at least V, few VI and few VII and my grp stands zero chance against any druid-type mobs b/c of this. If they were guarnteed to have the 30 sec cool down at least - I think eventually I could have handled it but with insta-cast and no cool down. Its just a game changer.

so other then lacking UCs your gear is overtiered mostly... strikes, weapons, and armor.. and still getting locked down ... wow /chuckle

Heh that's the funniest part. They are using the EXACT same spell. I didn't create NPC duplicates for anything but Impeding Snare and Rugged Roots. All of the NPC spell lists are using PLAYER spells. The only difference is their scaling is much higher due to their explosively large health pools.


-Hate

I know squat about 0's and 1's and I've been mistaken before (my wife would confirm for you...) - but I swear they are casting it with no cooldown which seems to be my primary issue with it. Is there any way you can check on that for me? Otherwise I just gotta stop working on Abyss and figure out how to squeeze out a boatload more dps as I'll punt my computer if more druid namers pop on me :)

I've never seen them cast it instantly upon being dispelled unless another druid is nearby. Triple Druid boss pull in t7 proved to be amusing :P

If the NPCs have high healscale .. Skin of Drake would be damn near godmode lol :)

Just turn off attack for whatever the duration of the buff is. If they're not being attacked, they don't heal. Yes it will take a little while longer, but at least you're not healing them to full and making it a never ending cycle.

The duration is equal to the cool down. He's saying even with dispelling it instantly he couldn't kill the mob before it cast again.

The duration isn't the same on the mob. The mob doesn't benefit from buff duration extensions like players do. It's 3 ticks (~18s) and then 30s cooldown. NPCs tend to only want to cast when they get low.

One thing you ladies/gents/trolls could try is starting the fight with numerous dispels. This way you have removed any junk buffs and ensuring that you will ONLY remove Skin of the Drake when it's time.


-Hate

Definitely remove all his buffs at start of the fight and throughout. Have bard dispell playing full time. What I was saying was that he seems to be casting his regen at 34% - regardless of time between his last cast b/c every time he hits 34-35% - he instantly spikes back up to 44% unless you have massive massive massive amounts of DPS to overcome it. I watched him regen and then counted it off to be sure I was under the 30 sec cool down and he definitely cast it again right at 34% and it had only been like, 18-20 seconds.

The instant he healed up - I debuffed him and he stopped healing but when i had him down to 34% again - poof. Right back to 44%-ish.

That's'a my query :)

PS - i swear i'm not trying to be difficult here. Just exhausting all possibilities. Not trying to increase aggravation for anyone!

To deal with this in T7 My bard twists in dispel constantly...I also have my chanter and wizzy dispels on the a hotkey so that when Pride gets to the point that it starts regening I can hit dispell instantly and the odds are at least one of them will be able to land one...

ON a side note ...with my chanter pet attacking ...2seconds after the mob casts Skin it is 100% so I have to beat it down before the guy can get his spell of cool-down...

With UW3...UC2's and Ninjastrike 9's I am able to do this.....


Dont see a need to change anything....


just breaking into t5? that would be next to impossible.....

Word....

I'm just breaking into T5, and the Skin of the Drake on druid bosses is not a problem for me. The main difference between your group and mine is that I'm using an enchanter for dispells. On beginning the fight, I cast a chanter dispell, and as soon as I see some large spike of heal (generally the same 35%->44% spike you see) I cast enchanter dispell again. The npc never casts it again before it dies, lasting maybe 15-30 seconds after that. I do have an entire group on your setup though, but I have never witnessed the same behavior of the mob instantly casting the spell again before dying. Are you actually taking around 30 seconds to get the mob back down to 35% after first seeing the skin cast?

Counted it off last night (had many chances!). Anywhere from 18-22 seconds and poof, recast at 34%.

so we have established that enchanter dispel is needed to progress past t5 now?

Skin of the Drake on NPC's is insane. I have a group of 11 toons, 1 group UC2 Stike aug 9/10s, other group mostly UC1 and strike 7/8s and T7 tree mobs are ridiculous. with all 11 toons beating on 1 tree i cannot beat out regen from SotD. 3 or so annuls will help but it seems as if they can also cast in on other npcs, so any larger pulls 5 or more u might as well give up and just die. Same scenerio it seems as what people are saying about T5, T7 has got to be near impossible to new players to the zone.

Don't pull 5 trees then? :)

I have never had a pull I could not kill in t7....that being said I have had some very long fights when 6+ trees popped when I was already pulling others.... probably a 20 min fight.

I don't

By the way of you pull all the trees and then watch them chain heal.. then bitch to HB about it.. he will laugh..  mobs will and do assist each other..  /cough

So it's ok  for a single mobs regen so much that a full t7  6 man with strike 9 and 10s can barely keep up? Doesn't seem right to me.
It's fine for me I can handle it, but not sure how a player new to t7 will do it without help.
Change it or not I don't care, but it will be a roadblock to players new to t7 or I guess we start seeing more 18 boxers.

I think that's the end game goal. Less grind, more challenge = increased boxing.

Not to nitpick, but chanters don't get that spell till T5 and mine doesn't have it yet (went back and made one just at the wrong time I guess), unable to kill a druid boss with a 12 box and full strike augs lvl 5 or better, 2 UW's (5 and 3 lvl) and bard, monk doing there thing as posted.

Don't like asking for help so just working the strike augs all up to 6.  T5 is the place where plp quit, and that's fine, but this is currently un-reasonable and unbalanced.  Just my 2cents, I figured it would get fixed but so far not :(

G

Skin of the Drake is the same ranks you gents use. It is a defensive proc. More hits = more heals = higher HPS. 18 boxing makes it worse.

My problem with the bit in red is this:

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No, just making a suggestion. Blast of Vulnerability = dispel x3 per cast.

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Less grind and more challenge = increased boxing? What? Increasing the boxing is more grinding and would actually make the problem worse. As more hits = more heals on Skin.

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See the replies above, Skin of the Drake is a defensive proc. More hits = more procs = more healing (higher HPS). As for it be unable to play, I am unsure of that statement. I've got 1 forum poster and 1 player claiming (and proving) otherwise.

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I'll try to log my grunts in and start working T7 on Monday. If my terribad group can make progress, there is no excuse. I won't be using hax/gm-commands/summoned gear, it's still my barely finished T6 group.


-Hate

BoV is a T5 spell though...

I know I'm running primary grp 3 uw9 melee toons and I watch myself get lockdown on t7 where I had to click all my savageonslaugts and monk discs/clicky just to kill this shit. My problem was overpulling and them assisting each other but it was a nightmare to watch my toons 10 mins trying to kill a train it was a stalemate.


Skin of Drake might be one of those Hella OP when used on NPC just because a lot of players don't have out of tier DPS.

Players keep saying just do this and that.. all the same players that are overtiered..  

T5 should be able to be done with 4.0/4.5s strikes 4 and 5 few scattered UCs and the holy trio + DPS not UWs/T5Spells+/Clickies galore..  

Also what Drakeskin and other heals are slowing zones way way down for retarded geared toons (as in way overtiered) when they just all just cast Vivication and CH on the mob your attacking watching a stalemate.. Even with 3 UW toons and 2 Zerks shit has slowed way down for me.. so I cant imagine how long its going to take avg joe player to even get 1 bat to pop let alone the other bosses..

Not QQ just giving perspective.  

I think there is an over assumption of DPS of normal day to day grps (not the players who have no lives like me jk don't get heartache  ;D)

I might be losing my mind but mobs do heal eachother... So here is what I have been doing...pull one SOTD mob and 1 none SOTD mob....beat the non SOTD mob down to 34%...he then gets skin cast on him....I then switch all dps to the SOTD mob and beat him down when its on cool down....

neat and easy..no need to dispel....



sure you cant do this with 50 mob pulls..but for just puttering around t7 and poping bats it works fine...

I dont think t7 is a problem as it is....we have the tools at this level to handle the heals....it would be t5 that our options are more limited.

Just checked the NPC spells. It's not even Skin of the Drake. It appears everyone has spell casts filtered out.

IT'S CHLOROBON!

It was healing for ~20% of the hp every 20 seconds. Skin of the Drake was on a 90 second cooldown from ~3 days ago. I increased this to 35 seconds (but may need reboot to take effect).

lol "NPC Skin of the Drake is OP"


-Hate

Hey - I was just rollin' with what everyone was telling me it was :)

details, details!!

Good deal - I'll try it out as soon as I can to see if i'm still inept.

I blame ToFS!

Not trying to be rude, but don't do that.

If !#%@'s broke, do your own testing and report what YOU see. Most people roll with everyone else's statements, which translates to QQ storm but with no actionable data. Give me actionable data or enough info to get me down enough rabbit holes and you get fixes. :-)


-Hate

Rereading this over, it seems he did report about everything he could have without having access to an npc spell list, npc spell cooldowns, etc.  He tried dispelling and it wasn't fixing the issue, but can't really see the other spells the mob might be casting.

Finally managed to kill a druid boss in T5 with tier-appropriate gear and just a 6-man group.

I'll admit (without any qualms) I'm a lazy gamer/EQ'er so for someone like me, SoD is a pain in the ass (lol).  It forced me to be attentive and adapt.  Which is great, honestly, but I could see someone getting into T5 for the 1st time and pretty much quitting out of frustration.

IMHO, SoD could be toned down a bit, but in its current state, it IS doable without an UW, enchanter, 18 box, or help from someone in an upper tier.

Good News - seems to have helped, Hate. Druids are a pita but can now be bested through a tough fight. Thanks for your patience on this man, I appreciate it!