Print Page - T7 Boss Chains

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Peign on June 19, 2014, 09:14:41 am

Title: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Peign on June 19, 2014, 09:14:41 am

Has something changed with the T7 boss chains? 6 months or so ago I used to consistently be able to get chains up to Wrath +. Now, I spent 7 hours or so in there and only got 3 Wrath chains and only 1 sloth. Maybe this is bad RNG but I've spoken with a few people that have experienced the same.

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Premador on June 19, 2014, 09:33:31 am

I'm getting very few bats spawning, and when I do it seems about 25% chance of spawning a chain. But once the chain has started it seems to continue well on average. hardest thing is getting the bats and getting the 2nd boss after.

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Kruciel on June 19, 2014, 09:36:49 am

(http://i.imgur.com/4uvEqtc.png)

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: hateborne on June 19, 2014, 10:35:58 am

To reply to this thread (for the millionth time lol),

I copy/pasted Hunter's boss spawning chances. I did INCREASE the chance for minis to spawn and doubled chance for trash to spawn. I also changed trap timers from 1h on ANY roll (even a failed roll means trap is down for 1h) to varying times (with boss spawns only being the 1h lockdown). Most of the traps were given a significantly larger area too to help create a more volatile experience.

tl;dr - Chance for bosses is the same. Chance for boss after boss is the same.

-Hate

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Peign on June 19, 2014, 10:39:17 am

Quote from: hateborne on June 19, 2014, 10:35:58 am

Ok thanks, did not see the other threads. Guess just bad RNG or I just hate T7.

Thanks again

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: marxist on June 19, 2014, 02:52:44 pm

There is a drastic loss in spawns, it seemed to happen around when the source code updated. I would guesstimate that you need 3-4 clears to get the same amount of bosses you previously obtained in a single clear

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Mixlor on June 19, 2014, 03:38:13 pm

I have been doing T7 clears as of late. I think the zone is working as intended and it is just the RNG. I know I had 8 bats up (1 from trap) and 7 from SDs. I think only 1-2 of those did not go all the way to Greed. I think I spoke with Peign who was also running T7 at the time, who was not having much luck with bat/bosschains/Wrath spawns. The next time I ran T7, I got 5 bats with a full clear and only 3 went all the way to Greed. Usually average 4-6 bats per clear and about 3-5 chains that go all the way up to Greed. I guess I am lucky compared to some.

However... damn RNG on boots....see tons of Chest patterns dropping but even in /ooc ppl are looking for the T7 boot patterns over other items. 'Haters gonna hate and RNG is a Hater!'

Mix

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: marxist on June 19, 2014, 03:56:57 pm

Prior to the source update you would see ~ 4-5 sloths a clear, now you are lucky to get 2. If it is supposed to be the same as it was previous, it is not working as intended

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: hateborne on June 19, 2014, 04:42:18 pm

This has nothing to do with the source update. The entire spawning system for this zone is handled through Perl. Perl has not changed. Even if we updated perl to another version (which I cannot remember if we did), they have not changed the rand() function in any significant way in a while. The entire system relies on int(rand(100)) to generate a number 0-99 and then compare that number to the EXACT SAME NUMBERS FROM HUNTER'S SCRIPT.

-Hate

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Kruciel on June 19, 2014, 05:52:09 pm

The only thing I can think of is the delay thing that was messing with t5 spawns for a bit when the new connection, making the triggers fire too quickly for them to be read properly. But I'm pretty sure you said you copied the delay over to t7 already, and I have yet to see a Stone Dropper chain fail to spawn the Stone Dropper (clearing the trash). I been gone too long to comment on this too much, other than to say T7 has always been pretty RNG heavy, and after coming back I have about a 40% success rate of "good t7 clears". As long as it's just RNG being a bitch and not the spawn cycle breaking on top of RNG being a bitch ;)

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Chunka on June 19, 2014, 06:00:24 pm

Yeah, I worked T7 the last week or so for a few days. They're right, Hate, the spawn is pretty fubar. I thought it was just my bad RNG, but consistently getting "bad rng" along with the rest of the people seeing issues has me wondering.

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Expletus on June 19, 2014, 06:22:02 pm

(http://pegitboard.com/pics/t/s-36485.jpg)

Can't help it!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: WatchYouDie on June 19, 2014, 07:04:45 pm

I did a run the other day and only ened up with 3 bats in 4 hours it was horrible. when i was running with my guild a few months back we woul clear the zone and the chains would start spawning and it was a good ammount to try and keep up ... now its "hey is something going to spawn"

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Viciouss on June 20, 2014, 07:45:10 am

Confirming what everyone else has posted. Did 5-6 clears over the last few days and only got 2-4 bats each one, if it wasn't for trap bats, I'd probably have cried.

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Chunka on June 20, 2014, 09:31:24 am

Its not just the low number of bats for me.....its also that the chain seldom gets past Lust.

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: hateborne on June 20, 2014, 11:03:40 am

Code:

if ($npc_id > 443300 && $npc_id < 443308)
	{
		my $BOSS_CHANCE = int (rand(100));
		if ($BOSS_CHANCE < 90)
		{
			my $BOSS_SPAWN_ID = $npc_id + 1;
			# quest::gmsay("GM: BOSS $npc_id to $SPAWN_ID CHANCE $BOSS_CHANCE (PASS)", 18, 0); # BOSS 80%
			my $x = 0;
			my $y = 0;
			my $z = 0;
			my $h = 0;
			my $BOSS_LOCATION = int (rand(16));
			if ($BOSS_LOCATION == 0) { $x = ??; $y = ???; $z = ??; $h = ??; }			# 	BOSS_LOCATION_1
############################################################################################
################## Removed spawn locations for obvious reasons on a public post #######################
############################################################################################
			else { quest::gmsay("ERROR: BOSS_1 location", 18, 0); }
			quest::spawn2($BOSS_SPAWN_ID,0,0,$x,$y,$z,$h);
		} # END IF 80% CHANCE BOSS
		else
		{
			my $SPAWN_ID = $npc_id + 1; # DEBUG
			# quest::gmsay("GM: BOSS $npc_id to $SPAWN_ID CHANCE $BOSS_CHANCE (FAIL)", 18, 0); # BOSS NOT 80%
		} # ELSE BOSS NOT 80%
	} # END IF MINI BOSS DIES

Code:

if ($npc_id > 443300 && $npc_id < 443308)
	{
		my $BOSS_CHANCE = int (rand(100));
		if ($BOSS_CHANCE < 90)
		{
			my $BOSS_SPAWN_ID = $npc_id + 1;
			quest::gmsay("GM: Boss $npc_id to spawn $SPAWN_ID,  $BOSS_CHANCE / 100 (PASS)", 18, 0) if $debug; # BOSS 80%
			my ($x, $y, $z, $h);
			my $r = int (rand(16));
			$x = $bossLocation{$r}[0];
			$y = $bossLocation{$r}[1];
			$z = $bossLocation{$r}[2];
			$h = $bossLocation{$r}[3];
			quest::spawn2($BOSS_SPAWN_ID,0,0,$x,$y,$z,$h);
		} # END IF 80% CHANCE BOSS
		else
		{
			my $SPAWN_ID = $npc_id + 1; # DEBUG
			quest::gmsay("GM: Boss $npc_id to spawn $SPAWN_ID,  $BOSS_CHANCE / 100 (FAIL)", 18, 0) if $debug; # BOSS NOT 80%
		} # ELSE BOSS NOT 80%
	} # END IF MINI BOSS DIES

Top code is Hunter's, bottom is mine. Notice the chances are 100% the same. Any questions?

-Hate

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: hateborne on June 20, 2014, 11:37:59 am

Quote from: Peign on June 20, 2014, 11:28:09 am

Code:

my $r = int (rand(16));
			$x = $bossLocation{$r}[0];
			$y = $bossLocation{$r}[1];
			$z = $bossLocation{$r}[2];
			$h = $bossLocation{$r}[3];

What happens if $r is 0?

int(rand(16)) means pull 0-15. (Basically, code starts counting at 0, humans start at 1). If it rolls 0, it spawns at location 1. If it rolls 1, it spawns at location 2, etc etc. If it rolls 15, it spawns at location 16.

-Hate

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Rangewind on June 21, 2014, 12:11:47 am

side question to all this, Hate are you willing to probide us with the number of traps in T7?? not locs just the total number so I can mark them and know when I have found them all lol.

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Natedog on June 21, 2014, 01:41:32 am

Should email me the rest of that quest.. it looks kind of janky.. lots of things that could be written differently :)

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: hateborne on June 21, 2014, 11:09:50 am

Quote from: Rangewind on June 21, 2014, 12:11:47 am

side question to all this, Hate are you willing to probide us with the number of traps in T7?? not locs just the total number so I can mark them and know when I have found them all lol.

Nope. :-)

Quote from: Paldail on June 21, 2014, 01:41:32 am

Should email me the rest of that quest.. it looks kind of janky.. lots of things that could be written differently :)

I appreciate the offer, but it's fine. I'm not sure how/why it could/should be different. If you've got an idea on what could make it better, pass it up. :-)

-Hate

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Natedog on June 21, 2014, 02:27:20 pm

Well X Y Z H are already defined as the current mobs location
(which you aren't using so overwritten the variable isn't a huge deal... but there is no need to do it at all)

You can just do it like this..

Code:

                        my ($x, $y, $z, $h);
			my $r = int (rand(16));
			$x = $bossLocation{$r}[0];
			$y = $bossLocation{$r}[1];
			$z = $bossLocation{$r}[2];
			$h = $bossLocation{$r}[3];
			quest::spawn2($BOSS_SPAWN_ID,0,0,$x,$y,$z,$h);

down to.. this..

Code:

my $r = int (rand(16));
quest::spawn2($BOSS_SPAWN_ID, 0, 0, $bossLocation{$r}[0], $bossLocation{$r}[1], $bossLocation{$r}[2], $bossLocation{$r}[3]);

Just a suggestion.. don't need to do it that way.. but if you maybe wanted to check the location of where the NPC died or whatever... you already overwrote those X Y Z H variables.

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: hateborne on June 21, 2014, 04:14:06 pm

I understand that and intentionally did not create a special variable because the death location is irrelevant to me. As for running it all under 1 line, I'm not overly fond of lines that go 100' to the right. I understand I can break it with line breaks, but that's a cosmetic issue, not an efficiency issue. Thank you though :-)

-Hate

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Dimur on June 21, 2014, 10:33:19 pm

Nate, the pathing fix for a lot of zones you did before the source update seems to have been disabled, any chance you could get some of the offending zones like Nro, Jaggedpine and Old Commons updated so we aren't chasing mobs through terrain and waiting for them to eventually path onto flat ground so we can kill them?

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Natedog on June 21, 2014, 10:57:56 pm

It just requires a map file and the Rule_values related to "Map" and "Pathing" to be correct.. (pretty sure i used.. the default values) so if they got changed need to fix them accordingly.. but beware of T5 zone illsalin .. if the map file isnt in there for that zone and you change back the values.. the mobs fall through the ground when pulling them over the suspended walkways.

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: lerxst2112 on June 21, 2014, 11:36:51 pm

If you don't have all the maps or they aren't up to date you could try generating them again. Apparently there's a newer file format that is smaller as well.

https://github.com/EQEmu/zone-utilities/releases
http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showpost.php?p=231446&postcount=16

May require a particular version of the source though, so worth keeping the old ones just in case.

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Rent Due on June 26, 2014, 01:52:55 am

was messing round in T7 tonight, here's what blew my mind....

full clear of the zone, literally all spawns gone....

waited....

23 stone droppers

2 bats spawned

1 trap from running all over the zone...ONE

0 chains....ZERO......DAFUQ?

really? something just ain't right. last time i did T7 was a while back and it was never this barren. IDK, maybe sit in the damn zone all day killing now? I gotta be missing something here cause it wasn't like this 2,3 months back

just saying, not really complaining, I'm just stating what I saw

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Chunka on June 26, 2014, 07:32:24 am

Something somewhere changed. No idea what, but nowhere near as many bats as we used to get, and when we do nowhere near as far along in the chain before it ends.

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Premador on June 26, 2014, 08:26:52 am

Full Clear last Saturday, 3 bats from last 3 stone droppers. 2 chains started that went to greed. RNG cant be that bad. Hit more traps than I have ever seen, i bet 20+, so many in fact that it was like someone was intentionally adding them, unfortunately no bats from traps(spawned or triggered) even with all the Stone droppers they produced.

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Chunka on June 26, 2014, 09:21:33 am

Yep, same I'm seeing. Plenty of traps, they just dont go anywhere.

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Rent Due on June 26, 2014, 10:20:24 am

at least you get traps LOL!

I'm gonna try again next time I'm on but there's something zonked

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Ponzi on June 26, 2014, 04:40:29 pm

Been living in t7 last week and a half, and it's defintely true that the stonedroppers aren't spawning bats hardly at all anymore. You're better off bumping between instances and trap-running than actually killing anything if you goal is bosses.

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: hateborne on June 26, 2014, 04:52:42 pm

I raised boss and stonedropped chance by 2 and 5% (respectively and additively) to the chances. Should be good with reboot or new instances. I'm confused on what might be causing it. I'll thoroughly comb through it again tomorrow (full code) to see what might be off. *shrug* :-\

-Hate

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Rent Due on June 26, 2014, 06:29:26 pm

maybe T7 is just being finicky again for no reason. seems to do that every couple of months like T6

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Fugitive on June 26, 2014, 07:04:14 pm

WTS T7 Bats ( I promise multi-chains! )...

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Natedog on June 26, 2014, 07:26:48 pm

What is the chance to spawn a bat? Is it 90% as well?

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Rent Due on June 26, 2014, 10:23:03 pm

Quote from: Fugitive on June 26, 2014, 07:04:14 pm

WTS T7 Bats ( I promise multi-chains! )...

multiple chaingasims?

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Expletus on July 01, 2014, 01:07:15 pm

So I created an instance of T7. I got 6-7 bats in a clear (cool!). I re-popped the zone 3x (don't ask me why). I got 2 bats. 1 from a trap. 1 from a SD. BOOOOOOO. wtf?

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: balidet on July 01, 2014, 01:42:39 pm

its so random..

2 days ago I had more chains going than I could kill..stayed up until the wee hours and finally just gave up with 4 active chains mid process....

yesterday I cleared the zone to less than 140 mobs and had not spawned a single bat...

RANDOM as hell..

but that is ok.

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Chunka on July 01, 2014, 02:47:55 pm

Then I must have a bad RNG run, because I'm seeing consistently bad rates. Will keep at it :D

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Natedog on July 01, 2014, 05:33:09 pm

Quote from: mpano66 on July 01, 2014, 02:47:55 pm

Then I must have a bad RNG run, because I'm seeing consistently bad rates. Will keep at it :D

(based on 1000 stonedroppers) -- bosses being 92% chance to spawn next one since Hate said he raised it by 2%

If the chance at getting a bat was 55% .. you have around a 30%~ of your chains getting to Wrath or further

If the chance at getting a bat was 95% you would have around 40 to 50% of your chains getting to Wrath or further

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Expletus on July 01, 2014, 06:48:02 pm

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/bunnystick/26924752_zps8b2d1c77.jpg)

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Rent Due on July 02, 2014, 10:08:26 am

for some reason T7 used to be consistent, now its.....well lets just say consistent no longer applies

I thought it was going well after Hate changed things, but after doing 3 runs i think differently

1st run was a bunch, I'm guessing here, but like 9 bats and all produced chains
2nd run was 4, 5 bats, all produced chains
3rd run i got 1 bat and no chain..........and the respawn just wasnt forth coming lol for the stone droppers

each of these runs were on different days

its like the older the instance is the worse it gets

but hey, gonna keep trying and see what it produces, maybe we all just have bad rng

the thing about it is though, last time I remember doing T7, which was some time back, it was pretty consistent for bats and chains. With the amount of time it takes to clear the zone (ie new player) and to get "bad rng" on a few runs, well that would be bad for morale lol... I guess for us farmers and re-gearing new toon crowd we can keep trying over and over to get better results

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Natedog on July 02, 2014, 02:06:30 pm

Quote from: Expletus on July 01, 2014, 06:48:02 pm

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/bunnystick/26924752_zps8b2d1c77.jpg)

I used his script and simulated it 1000 times.. ya jackass .. sorry that I have a working brain :)

I also guessed at the chance to spawn a bat.. since I have no fucking clue what it is.. but it gives you a perspective of how Perl Random loves to be shiiiiit

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: red2 on July 02, 2014, 02:28:50 pm

so can you post some sort of result of the output?
bat# distribution, bell curvve, x/y graph something?
you said you did all this work, but did not mention what the results were.
if after 1000 iterations the mean was somewhere around 3-4 bats...

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Natedog on July 02, 2014, 04:05:28 pm

Quote from: red2 on July 02, 2014, 02:28:50 pm

95% bat chance... 92% boss chance...

The numbers in my original post were WAY off lol...

(http://i.imgur.com/E49GE39.png)

55% chance for bat... 92% chance for boss...

(http://i.imgur.com/QymHNNa.png)

25% chance for bat... 92% chance to spawn boss...

(http://i.imgur.com/0m1ta6a.png)

the percentage is .. out of 1million stoneguys... X percent got to that boss...

pretty sure this is the math... its just simple "chance" -- however the percentages shown in the picture are just the amount shown up in that "run" of the script...

BAT | GREED | x100 to make it a %
.25 * (0.92^7) * 100

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Rent Due on July 02, 2014, 04:12:08 pm

my eyes are bleeding looking at that

I'm just trying to gear a couple of toons

for Pete's sake

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Expletus on July 02, 2014, 04:28:11 pm

(http://www.mommyish.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/math-is-hard_o_962622.jpg)

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: WatchYouDie on July 10, 2014, 12:08:08 pm

It seems like the bosses no longer have a chance to spawn a stone dropper

http://ezserver.online/forums/index.php?topic=3822.0

Quote from: Fugitive on July 13, 2013, 12:19:01 am

Once you start killing the SD you have the chance to start the spawn cycles one can spawn another, I also noticed as you kill these bosses and upwards the SD can spawn randomly again all over the map so kill more can equal more spawns!

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: balidet on July 13, 2014, 11:14:04 am

Not true.. had several bosses spawn from stone droppers last night...RNG !

Title: Re: T7 Boss Chains
Post by: Adidis on July 13, 2014, 11:27:11 am

Bosses still spawn from Stone Droppers. That's not what he's saying. In the guide it says Stone Droppers can spawn from Bosses.

EZ Server

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Peign on June 19, 2014, 09:14:41 am