EZ Server

Ok, we've been discussing this in detail on game, and I think its time to bring it here.

Clerics: why do they suck, how can they suck less?

Clerics atm are a 3rd rate healer and probably dead last in terms of DPS of any class. Clerics are decent healers, but they dont excel in any one area; pallies are FAR better group healers, to the point that their group heal surpasses a clerics single heal. Druids are hands down the best single target healer. Shammy are the best support healer and dps pump of the healers.

So....where's that leave clerics?

A clerics epic proc is the same as an old pally epic proc heal/cure. Its ....ok, but not great. Their group heals are good from word of viv, but the recast time is somewhat long, in general terms. Clerics do get a massive single target heal, and its instacast, but its more of an "Oh, shit!" heal than anything (VERY mana heavy). The only thing clerics really have going for them is the epic click after 5.0....which is BEEFY. Sadly, the recast is beefier: 1 minute. This combo makes the cleric a solid healer but they definitely are inferior healers when compared to paladin or druid.

Some ideas to fix? Dont know.....its a hard line to walk. Maybe make their ST heals better. Maybe give them the ability to cast a buff that, for a brief time, reflects all damage back to the mob. Maybe lower the recast on the epic click and make it genuine AE, not just group (would help everyone, and would be a blast to try and manage agro!).

Anyway, just thought I'd open a discussion on this.

I would say give them a proc that reduces damage that a mob can do by like 25%. make them very desireable when fighting bosses ( like old eq) and keep the one step down pally proc but make it raid wide. This would make it so for aoe fights pallys still rule single target druids still rule and clerics would have a place.

AOE healing the raid? Naw.

What about focusing on one of their line of spells and beefing it up. The ol "Mark of" line. Face it, they need something else to bring to the table to be competitive to make you want to log them in. You could change their proc effect to a "Mark of XX" which does the usual heals the targets that hit the mob, along with placing a debuff and a buff to party.

Maybe incorporate the Yalp line into the spell that goes buffs the raid w/it on proc. I dunno. out of ideas.

Clerics do need some loving they have been left waiting at the bus stop for a long long time. I only keep mine leveled up and geared. Hope this thread can get some good ideas out in the open to work on.

Make them do melee AE damage from epic that heals targets target :)

Clerics have 3 main positives ppl forget:

1. ) Tower of Vie III -- 30 second duration buff that acts as like a 30% stonewall thats stackable with everything else (insane goblin pet, warrior epic stonewall click, SOA click etc).. With a 1 min recast time.. Essentially, for 50% of a time you got  pull in camp, the warrior literally cannot die in later tiers. Juggle glasses and SLD and only a lag disconnect can stop you.

2. ) t9 Neriak Warhammer - Yes, it's cleric usable. So they get double the icestrike XI slots other priests do. Hey, it's twice the dps, nothing to sneeze at.

3. ) Armor of Crab II - This could stand to have an upgrade, but its free hps!

So lets not act like the cleric is useless. It's the best hitter of the priests with warhammer.. It's got a hp booster, its got an insane stonewall spell add..

Another way of looking at it is akin to the pet casters : Cleric is a class that makes the first part of the game (ldon-t5) worlds easier, and as Strike Augs and UC2+ and insane warriors/druids take over t6+ they take more of a backseat. They help you start strong, they just aren't up to snuff at the finish line.. And I think i'm ok with that. :)

Only thing I can say is a cleric should out heal ANY class....maybe an upgrade to Word of Viv with a decent amount of recast...maybe an upgrade to hp buff...shame that shammy 9.0 if 200k (plus 200 str/agi/dex/sta) buff and clerics Armor of Crab II is 20k.....of course I am not crying for a nerf...but 200k is kinda high when you compare druid at 16k hp buff, cleric 20k, shammy 200k  ::)

its -10% melee mitigation

Nerfing drake would probably make the cleric a lot more desirable.

 ::)

<nod>

So would taking away pally epic proc. I dont see anyone seriously suggesting either, though.

The point is, a cleric is perfectly fine at fulfilling their role, just because drake is a set it and forget it heal and paladin heals still remain balanced around pre-tuned T8 and T9 returns doesn't make them incapable of fulfilling their role.  Asking for them to be brought into balance with unbalanced spells is asking for the unbalanced spells to actually be tuned... careful what you ask for.

this thread should die if its going to lead to nerfs of other classes, just sayin

that being said, I have always had a cleric in my line up, don't know why, prolly just for the crab hp buff.

cleric is a very hands on type class, if you play a cleric, and only a cleric, they are solid. they just don't exactly fit our needs because they need so much attention to play properly here.

for instance, the pally doesn't need to be babysat to do his job, its not like youre mashing 4 hotkeys to get a pally to do his job

its funny cause in EQ2 a cleric played the role of what our druid is now, more of a preventive healer instead of a reactive healer.

could make our clerics to be more of a "battle cleric" type class. more of an offensive casting class instead of a reactive healing class. beef up the mark of line of spells, undead damage proc on epic in addition to a few steps lower than pally group heal proc. low timer, fast cast group cure that does what our reward cure click does. Add in crab III at T9.

idk, just some ideas

agree :) just need to find a role for the cleric not try to pigeon hole it into "it should be the best healer"

If you made the cleric a battle cleric arent you turning it into a pally ? Leave the heal on the epic and give it some additional debuffs. Increase the mitigation buff and make that desirable like aoe in that party.

Idea, clerics have always been a undead killin class.  So maybe this...
Give them a class specific pet "alter boi"
Pet procs a skele curse(resist able to some degree)
Cleric can nuke harder on the skele, thanks to his special friend.

Now they have lots of love

How about a buff worth a damn? Cleric Vie doesnt stack with everything. oh and they heal just fine Dimur is right tbh it would stand more to balance out the other classes first ... oh wait t10 is suppose to come out soon so it might balance.

Realistically  what you are asking for is going to end up with a nerf... these things have been suggested many time before by many people and what happens x class gets nerfed.

Maybe go down the old eq line and do the reverse heal DS and idk maybe a better buff.

This is something that I've been wanting to do with the caster DPS changes this month. I'm aware of their lackluster status from my random bits where I would sneak online for an hour or two and grind away at T6 or T7.


-Hate

Thank you, HB! I look forward to seeing what you have in store for the class :D

yay! I knew I kept my cleric around for a good reason! love my cleric $$

How about the cleric self buff getting a mitigation buff and some kind of sympathetic proc?

They already HAVE a mitigation buff with attached DI. Sympathetic proc maybe, but I've got a few other things in mind for them. Just number crunching. :-)


-Hate

What about a beefed up reverse damage shield?  http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=3477

Or possibly a something from this line:  http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=3469


Soraken

Bring back rampage and give their HP buff a DI component, 5 minute lockout on recast so not like you could keep it up nonstop if it faded on an encounter.

Have the first, mark of emperors....had the second, was recently "fixed". Dont know that management wants to bring that back.

Besides, damage shield type spells arent as effective here because of the differences in melee speed.

^This. At 20K hps after T6 Crab 2 is hardly worth casting. Add something that absorbs or mitigates damage to it, and maybe add a better heal dynamic, and clerics is money again.

Chunka.... GET OUTTA MAH HEAAAAAD! Seriously, just addressed that around 5min before you posted. ;-)

I've been looking at the healing/buffing as a whole and seeing a lot of ...weird things. Nothing to worry about as I'm still crunching things, not nerfs/buffs or knee jerks. Just trying to get a full picture again before I take any action. I'm also seeing that my notes are out of date and some classes ARE missing spells that were supposed to arrive. So that will come with the caster DPS, cleric loving, healing overview, big-mouthful update. :-)


-Hate