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Title: UW and GSoA Post by: Raygan on March 06, 2016, 08:21:41 am I would like to have everyone take a minute and think about this with an open mind....I have seen t4 drop 2 gsoa with in 5 minutes.....it made me think.
Why should GSoA drop in any zone before t8? Which got me thinking. Why should UW quest become available before T7 (the zone Hunter started UW in)....How about we remove GSoA drops in any zone before T8 and make T7 the opening for the UW quest line? Discuss. I think it is a good idea. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Subdued on March 06, 2016, 09:32:42 am Currently the GSOA is a fantastic tool for newer players to amass platinum for outfitting their team as a heathy alternative to even more GLS farming than is already necessary. I think it's in a great place right now which forces vets to either buy them for plat or take their chances with lower drop rates at higher tiers. If GSOA were removed from lower tiers I think you would have to find another source of play revenue for players (besides rainbows) to accommodate. As a player who started a few months ago, I thought the early player economy felt just right, particularly due to the sale I had of a few GSOAs.
As far as UW is concerned, I think it's in a decent place personally although I hate the white dmg jump from uw1-uw3 followed by the lack of a jump from uw3-uw5. Kathina Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Waraesh on March 06, 2016, 10:04:42 am For the UW the only thing I would change is somehow pointing out that you can't socket your nerds into UWI. A couple people I know of got their UW before their HS1 aug and they were unhappy. That being said, augs are easier to grind out now, so even that to me becomes irrelevant. If you have the time, you can grind out the essences for the UW, so it would seem logical to give players access to it sooner. For me doing some of the UW grind during t5 kept me sane when I was leveling up my first UW.
As for the GSoA, I am on the fence here. On one side, as a vet I understand the need to purchase these to fill in earrings of the ages. On the other side, they are destroying the game for noobs. It has been a while since I cared enough to run the numbers, but the last time I did, I think you were able to buy all the materials (and maybe even essences, back when people sold essences) for 2 or 3 NinjaStrike augs to t5 by selling 1 GSoA. And that was when they were 10m plat. These days the vets are basically printing money anytime they log in, so I've heard of people paying 15m for GSoA. The person buying them gets a GSoA.....wheee only 52 more and it will be useful. The person selling them gets 15m plat, which equates to farming 60 SLS (do you remember farming SLS back in the day?). The amount of time and grind that went into getting those first strike augs was tough, but it set me up to understand what was in store for me later on in the game. I just think having what becomes a grossly huge nest egg that early on takes away any challenge from leveling up. The server becomes too EZ. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Raygan on March 06, 2016, 01:43:40 pm Strike augs were adjusted to only be able to be used at your current tier level as well. I just think that GSoA dropping in tiers below t8 hurts the economy....getting 20k aa isnt that difficult with xp buffs being cast in nexus all the time. This is designed to make content less trivial....also why should GSoA have a better drop in rate in tiers a higher level can steam roll and a lower chance in higher tiers ( I understand this is because mobs have more hp in later tiers and so it takes longer to kill "x" mob)....this is more of a way to make things better...not to hurt players....I also undertsnad there could be alot of butthurt at the beginning. i just think it will be better for the long term.
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Raygan on March 06, 2016, 02:45:15 pm We will just have to agree to disagree. :)
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Chunka on March 06, 2016, 03:01:54 pm I'd rather see GSoA no drop, honestly. But then I also think UW should use essences completely different from the ones used for strikes, mana necks, SoA.
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Ponzi on March 06, 2016, 03:55:13 pm No no no no. There is 100% no reason at all to do this. One thing this server is known for is the grinds you can do at any point. You are asking to remove 2 of them till 3/4ths done with the server? You are literally trying to force a certain play style among all people. I even feel the implication that this stuff is intended to be done when you feel is wrong or their wouldn't be progressive level increases based off the tiers on UW. Shall we remove all things that have been done In this game if it was implemented during a certain tier? Why isn't mana necklace or strike augs on your list? You're right, the Mana Necklace should be wiped from existence, immediately. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Waraesh on March 06, 2016, 06:59:52 pm I will agree with Fruiti regardless, due to amazingly long silence being broken!
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Raygan on March 06, 2016, 09:07:15 pm I agree with maybe GSoA should be made no drop BUT we still have the same problem....people will buy no drop....the point behind making something like GSoA drop in higher tiers is so that it doesnt trivialize things early in game.....Master Esse are no drop but still will sell. GsoA is something that was designed for end gamers who needed something else to do with their time/AA....so why not make it something that only drops in later tiers (i.e. T8-10)
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Rent Due on March 07, 2016, 07:01:26 am I think I would rather see GSOA drops tier up instead of not drop till T8.
Double loot weekend for instance, I did some time in T9 to finish off some essences. I racked up nearly 30mil in plat from trash loot and 30 essences. Not one single GSOA Fast forward to the next day..... I did 2 runs of HOH and got 3 GSOA's to drop. Now, I'm thinking to myself WTF! I mean seriously WTF. I hear people all the time say Qvic drops GSOA's at a good rate, HOH and even T6. What you don't hear is people farming T8/9/10 and getting ANY to drop. I think I've seen one drop in T8 after farming, if I remember, 60ish essences, ONE! Now, comeon, something is seriously wrong with that picture. The Earring of the Ages is a Top tier item, its not a HOH or Qvic item, so why on earth would they drop like rain in those 2 zones and drop like.......well, hardly ever drop in the tiers where the toons are that would be seriously working on the item? Good for the economy? sure, good for new players to fast forward through the dull stuff we had to do in the past, like farm plat by any means we could. Today's new player has it pretty smooth. You log in, within a day or so you will find a Top or Mid tier person willing to PL your new crew to 70, help you through POT, get your 1.5's or at least 1 for you. Start your path, find a GSOA or some xp shards, sell those, fund your strike augs/shield(s), whatever. You get massively OP'ed buffs in nexus almost on the hour some days. I mean no, I don't want to see new players have to resort to SLS farming to pay for strike augs, not entirely. I mean just because we had to walk in the snow doesn't mean I want to see others have to do it. What I do want though is to see the GSOA's drop chance increased in the late tiers and decreased in the earlier tiers. In my opinion promoting the desire to progress to get to "the good stuff" faster. The entire idea behind our server is basic, make a box team and progress it evenly. However, people are not doing that. They are stacking one toon (warrior) with a UW, shield, ring, earring, top tier gear then going back to POT and building their crew. That's the easiest way to do it, I can not fault people for doing it. If the path is there, why not walk it. The UW thing.....ehh, I don't know, I am kinda tired of talking about UW's. True we all made it to T7 in earlier times without the weapon and it was implemented to lay waste to everything. Now a days players are convinced it is a MUST HAVE item, you can not possibly play without one. Look, bottom line, UW is a farming tool, its a going back to lower tiers hacking away solo farming tool. Lets just leave it where it is cause I don't want to read through 5 pages of butthurt before Hate gets on and locks this thread. If we must talk about UW's, lets talk about the lack of UW augs..... Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Raygan on March 07, 2016, 08:31:57 am Eliseus, this is simply a discussion thread. I am not capable of making changes. This is Hate's sandbox. So don't take any of this personally. I agree with what you say Rent. Your reasoning for plat/zooming through low level content and gaining access to overpowered gear at low levels is my primary gripe. Blasting through all the content only makes people leave because there is no challenge. This of course is only MY opinion.
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Raygan on March 07, 2016, 08:35:45 am Also I am on phone at work...will look up original postings by Hunter when I get home to my pc
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Chunka on March 07, 2016, 09:21:28 am Quote What I do want though is to see the GSOA's drop chance increased in the late tiers and decreased in the earlier tiers. In my opinion promoting the desire to progress to get to "the good stuff" faster. This. I understand the gsoa and unispooge were added to make lower tiers less boring, and while I appreciate the effort I can tell you it didnt work. Going back to farm CT for 100 essences to increase my team's DPS still makes me want to sell my eyes on ebay, use the money to buy a vintage 1982 Walkman DD, then feel around the box it comes in til I find it then smash it to bits screaming "ANOTHER CORPSE WITH HALF A DOZEN USELESS GEMS!!!" just to spite myself. Wanna make UW/SoA/Strike backfarming less likely to make someone stop playing? Add a unified top end farm zone....like ToFS did for charm upgrades, but for Qvic to say at least Abyss essences. Make it gnasty, gnarly, gnostic, whatever....just dont make it boring. Make this shit fun, make it challenging....hell, even make it take longer than it does in the normal zones! You'll still see more upper tier players working there than you will in CT, PoDrags, etc. Meanwhile we need to quit making shit easier for newer players. If anything we need to make it harder...more challenging; regardless what any of you try to claim THIS will improve chances of keeping players connected and invested longer, because it will make it less likely to become monotonous and repetitive in a week or two. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Chunka on March 07, 2016, 09:29:02 am And before one of you pathetic SoB's starts givin me shit about how I am trying to make it harder for you new guys "cuz I already got mine" (floored me when someone actually told me this last time I made this type post) you need to understand that I am NOT top tier...and I did most of this stuff back when it WAS harder. As Rent said...dont need to see kids trudge through the same snow we did....but the fact of the matter is that one of the top tanks on our server is a guy who started not all that long ago, who I remember helping get started .....who blasted through content at an amazing rate and became one of the servers most accomplished players, and who know as much about T10 as anyone playing here (and more than most)....but who now doesnt play much at all. Is this because of RL....or because logging in and working on his team isnt that much fun anymore? Any way you look at it attrition is an issue...and making the initial lower tier grind so quick and easy aint doin these newer players any favors.
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Subdued on March 07, 2016, 09:42:47 am As a player who just recently went through the lower tiers, has played EQ and private servers since 1998, has completed UW3 and has the essences to UW6, and is currently on the verge of starting T6, I can confidently state my opinion as the following:
I think making GSOA no-drop, decreasing its drop rate in lower tiers and increasing it in higher tiers is a great idea. I realize this sounds contrary to what I stated in the earlier post but I think it could be highly beneficial if done correctly. Why decrease the lower tier rate and stil make it no drop? Because you don't want to have a newer player frustrated that they haven't yet "hit the GSOA lottery" with a lowered drop rate in their current tiers in order to make their 10-15m plat. If you make the GSOA no drop and drop more in higher tiers, I think you have to give newer players a source of plat. I think the plat bags are actually a pretty strong idea. Maybe a new level of them should be added. Or make the 100k bags drop more frequently. While you're at it, remove gem drops completely from Qvic and up. They're a complete waste of time to loot and just cause more corpse clutter when they're the only thing on corpses. Chunka says vets/higher tier players quit because they don't want to farm lower tiers for UW essences, and that's fine, but if you ask new players to spend hours/days farming low level GLS all day just to fund their strikes/mana necks, I don't see how those players won't quit too. I personally would much rather run circles around QVIC for 8 hours than to spend 5 minutes farming GLS. It's like watching a 4 hour triple-overtime NFL playoff game ending on a field goal kicking contest. I don't see how farming GLS for hours on end should be a staple of early player development. It was like that in the past? Who gives it a shit. That doesn't mean it was a good design just because that's the way it used to be. We still play the game to be fun, and you can make it hard work but still enjoyable at the same time. Fun and work do not have to be mutually exclusive. Nobody has fun farming GLS. Chunka's idea sounds strong: a tough, challenging zone that drops t1-t6 essences. Even at a low rate, coupled with strong AA xp rates for people who are farming for their rings/mask still. Regarding the game being too easy for newer players, I don't disagree. I think the t5 setup is great. I still think t5 corals are awful and a poor design decision in their current setup, but it's manageable. I think t1/t2 dragons are way too easy but also too far spread out. To make the zone more enjoyable, I would make them more difficult but make them spawn minis for crystals a bit more frequently as well. I felt like breaking into LDON and Qvic were a lot of fun, WITHOUT buffs. With buffs, they were stupidly easy. Comically so. I never felt any challenge whatsoever in t1/t2. Just annoyance. A lot of it. Awful awful zone. Maybe CT bosses should be the "required" armor to advance the tier, and make the trash drops go away? Essence farming and armor farming there are basically the same: pull as many as you can and hope you get your drop. The zone itself just doesn't feel like a progression zone in the way that qvic and t1 does. Instead it just feels like an unfinished amusement park ride. It's missing the paint and the music. Kathina Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Rent Due on March 07, 2016, 10:01:42 am Let us not forget here that low level players that are acquiring essences can still sell them off for a pretty penny. SLS farming quite honestly is the worst possible aspect of this server. Absolutely absurd.
The idea of making a level based, instance zone scaled to the player for back farming essences is awesome. A place to go that if you are T9 is a T9 zone basically that drops essences of all types up to T8, or if you are T6 drops all essences up to T5. A sectioned zone, where your qvic guys are over here, your CT guys are over there, etc. So you can farm what you want or farm the whole damn zone. A zone similar to that of a Karana zone, outdoors, no fluff, no big graphics, just go farm, hell even have an SLS/GLS area. Something along those lines, would take some creative thinking on how to design it, however with the current trend of people trying to cheat and get over on the game I think Hate is kind of fed up with designing just to have people exploit it. I would be too. So, I don't know. The basic problem here is, there has to be items of worth to sell for lower tier people. The strikes augs and other quests are quite expensive. Also making it so that a player can not simply come in and go from A to T10 in a week or less then quit in a month cause "I did it all, it was too easy!" Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: balidet on March 07, 2016, 11:05:06 am my turn?
couple of things; we give not a single shit about some new player getting a EOA... they dont do it... they sell them. GSOA are for sale at least 5 or 6 times when I am on for the few hours I have to play... every day...every time. I would much rather see some kind of blood token type item for the EOA then these stupid GSOA... let it be a kill quest... based on tier... for each gem.. need 10 per tier to progress earring starting in t5. make it 100000 kills...i dont care.....no selling ....just something you earn as you progress....I know t5 you can bust it out in a day i get it...but t10? hehe thats going to take some time. WAY TO MUCH PLAT IN THE HANDS OF NEW PLAYERS!!! crystals was bad....GSOA is HORRIBLE!! should have to work for strike augs... Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Subdued on March 07, 2016, 11:12:09 am Eli, I don't think you can find a player in qvic content with EoA10 because farming 200k AAs in lower tiers and without gear is no joke, not to mention the cost of getting 10 GSoAs.
You would have to be one sadistic individual if you forcefully kept yourself farming qvic for GSoA and pofire for AAs ad nauseum for a month, intentionally not progressing through tiers, just to get an EoA10. The other reason is... why? If you put it on a non-UW toon it's pointless. 125% of shit damage is still shit damage. I'm working on my EoA now, because I have UW3, and I'm about to upgrade to UW6 (need to farm a bit more plat first), and I'm at EoA4. Yes, I could have been EoA10 by the time hit t5, but I don't see what the point would have been. I would have had literally no strike augs on my other toons and my RoA would be stuck at level 50 instead of 500. The likelihood of anyone even coming close to EoA10, even in t1/t2 much less Qvic, is probably 1/1000 of the likelihood of a person having a UW'd bard (looking at you, Rent). I can state with certainty that one doesn't exist in that situation. Kathina Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Rent Due on March 07, 2016, 11:30:27 am Hey, my bard, Joslynz rocks it! LOL just saying
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Subdued on March 07, 2016, 11:32:30 am Which argument did you think someone was making? I don't think anyone is stating that newer players are getting EoA10. The biggest argument I saw was someone stating that players are getting too much bang for their buck in selling GSOAs. I don't disagree with their point myself, although I think alternative sources of platinum would have to be created for lower tiers if they were made no drop. If I were forced to farm GLS all day long to finance strikes and mana necks for 12 boxes when I was in qvic/t1/t2 then I think I would have quit a long time ago. GLS farming is awful awful awful. It's not even playing the same game. It's like playing the mini bridge puzzle game in Final Fantasy for the NES...... for 5 hours straight.
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Raygan on March 07, 2016, 03:24:20 pm Matter of fact, please quote where hunter implemented this stuff strictly for end gamers (obviously it was more grinds that end gamers could do to stay busy, but not strictly for them only). Ultimate Weapon quest/reward would take me 1 hr to make vs 100s of hrs for end game hardcore players to achieve. It would NOT calc into the balance for any tiers. Added Earring of the Ages to the Leaderboards NPC in Nexus. Earring of the Ages quest is strait 50k AA per rank, up to rank 90. Each rank give 1% chance for Divine Intervention up to 90% max. If the chance for Divine Intervention goes off, you'll get full health instead of dying. Definitely an OP item for players who put their time in. Meant for players that already got max Ring of the Ages rank 1000 already, that they still have something to spend AA on. I think both of these legitimize what I was saying was the ORIGINAL intent by Hunter. So how about we make it so that EoBA doesnt become a doable quest for anyone before RoA 1000? Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: balidet on March 07, 2016, 04:00:34 pm it doesn't have to say its for end game players and we dont care about who gets it.
without our 600% xp and other buffs you all would still be trying to get roa 100 extorting us because we have the ability to make more does not make it better.. or ok... what kind of mentality is this? Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Raygan on March 07, 2016, 04:22:22 pm Matter of fact, please quote where hunter implemented this stuff strictly for end gamers (obviously it was more grinds that end gamers could do to stay busy, but not strictly for them only). Ultimate Weapon quest/reward would take me 1 hr to make vs 100s of hrs for end game hardcore players to achieve. It would NOT calc into the balance for any tiers. Added Earring of the Ages to the Leaderboards NPC in Nexus. Earring of the Ages quest is strait 50k AA per rank, up to rank 90. Each rank give 1% chance for Divine Intervention up to 90% max. If the chance for Divine Intervention goes off, you'll get full health instead of dying. Definitely an OP item for players who put their time in. Meant for players that already got max Ring of the Ages rank 1000 already, that they still have something to spend AA on. I think both of these legitimize what I was saying was the ORIGINAL intent by Hunter. So how about we make it so that EoBA doesnt become a doable quest for anyone before RoA 1000? None of this says it is only for end game players (by that even what determines an end game player). ok I tried to pin point for you who Hunter said he intended the item for...... Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: balidet on March 07, 2016, 05:40:20 pm ooc for a gsoa and see how long it takes to get a taker.../ooc WTB gsoa 12mil pst
try it... Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Subdued on March 07, 2016, 06:49:27 pm Don't think I've ever gotten 600% xp buff. I think the most I've had is about 400% and that was once or twice. I can do 125% myself, and 100-150% is usually what is given in Nexus as it is. Besides the point, though.
In any case, the price of GSOA is simple supply/demand economics 101. There's only a few ways to change the price: 1, change how often they drop in various tiers of content (which includes them not dropping in certain tiers at all). 2, change them from tradeable to no drop (people would still sell loot rights as they do for master essences, but the price would be affected one way or the other with a 10 minute timer on the corpses and much less readily available buyers). If you go with #1 but not #2, you run the risk of not changing the price by much. Additionally, without the proper adjustment, you might actually cause the prices to go up even further. Why? Well, if you remove them from lower tiers, you're removing a source of them for the higher tier players who get them farming lower tier content for essences. Higher tier players don't just get them from the higher tiers, so the adjustment required could be fairly significant. If you go with #2 but not #1, it's hard to say what would happen. Prices could go up because of a sharp decrease in available GSOAs in the market, or they could go down because the person who tries to sell a corpse can't really extract 12-15m out of someone on short notice. I think a combination of 1 and 2 would be best, with a slight decrease in earlier tier drop rates (maybe 10-20%) and a slight increase in higher tier drop rates. On top of that, make them no drop. I think a small reworking of the system could go a long way in helping as well. Make it tiered like the RoA is. Have the first 10 levels cost 5k AAs instead of 20k, but make the damage increase somewhere in the 10-12% range when you reach level 10. Have the next tier of levels cost 10k AAs and have the damage increase somewhere in the 25% when you reach level 20. Have the next tier cost 20k AAs as well and you reach 50% damage increase at level 30, 30k AAs for 100% at level 40 and then increase 41-50 to 30k AAs to get to 200% at level 50. It would keep the total cost pretty similar but reward players in higher tiers who have increased AA xp rates while also providing players with choice. One player might get their RoA to level 200 and then their EotA to level 10 or 20, and then back to their RoA, etc. Choice is fun. Straight paths are less fun. Kathina Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Waraesh on March 07, 2016, 10:39:44 pm EoA was designed to be backloaded, it wasn't meant to be useful/meaningful really until it was rank50. And then....it is AWESOME! It is what I would consider "The" endgame item.
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Leis on March 08, 2016, 04:29:39 am From this thread we can come to two conclusions. First that the drop rate in lower tier zones is to high and should be adjusted. Second that the demand for GSoA's has gone up, I would guess thats because people are realizing that the optional grind items are more or less no longer optional for end game play.
Subdued is correct. If you want to see the price drop, you should refuse to buy it for more than 10 mil. It wont do a new player any good so they will sell it for what people are willing to buy it at. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Subdued on March 08, 2016, 09:55:42 am If you want to see the price drop, you should refuse to buy it for more than 10 mil. I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me on that part specifically, because I don't really believe in collusion working to lower prices without 100% buy-in (or damn close to it) by the buyers, which would be unrealistic. What would end up happening is, yeah, within a few days you might get more people selling them at 10m. As soon as that starts happening, they'll immediate jump back up in price because you'll have multiple buyers jumping at the sellers saying "I'll take it." As soon as that happens, those players will raise their price when they realize they probably sold it too cheaply. To address a point I missed someone stating earlier, regarding a perception that players who make more plat are being fleeced: It's opportunity cost. If you're t9 geared and can make 7mil per hour farming 14 abyss essences, and it would take you 5 hours, on average, of clearing qvic to get one GSOA to drop (while getting 12 qvic essences per hour), you would be way ahead paying 12-15m for the GSOA from another player. At the same time, you have no advantage over a new player in farming GLS, outside of fastest travel donator, so you shouldn't be farming GLS when you need them. You should be buying them, even at 500k each. Just because you pay 500k to some player who is advertising them that high and nobody else is selling them doesn't mean you got fleeced. If you can justify that your time spent farming is more valuable in paying 500k and farming t5 essences, then you did not make a bad investment. Sure, you could make a BETTER investment if you found someone willing to sell SLS at 250k, but that's how the market works. If supply increases, you get to buy cheaper. If you want GSOA to be cheaper, then the market needs to discourage them from being sold, change the number of buyers in the market (by giving more incentive or less incentive for people to want GSOA at a given tier) and/or alter their drop rates and who those drop rates target. What's the best method? There probably isn't a best, but I don't think it would be too hard to figure out a few good options. Kathina Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Rent Due on March 08, 2016, 12:06:18 pm I do have to say the OP has been spamming to try and buy these for 10mil which is probably what lead to this thread to start in the first place. Either mad they are being sold for more than he wants to pay or mad that he can't get them more commonly in higher tiers. I think what the core issue is here is that if you are T10 or T9 and you are farming in those zones and rarely, if ever see them drop, but if you drop way back down to a low tier they seem to drop more. Its not an issue of mobs killed vs item dropped, because trust me, in an hour I can kill 10x the mob count in T9 than you can in HOH simply due to the sheer number of available mobs in T9 and the fast respawn rate. The issue is the target characters of this quest are not getting the drops in the end tiers, yet having to waste time going back to farm a trivial zone that has no real return of time investment other than that item. I mean Qvic, yeah you will get Qvic essences along with your better chance of a GSOA dropping. But lets say you are working T10, you can easily go to T9 and make some mad plat and maybe some gear you missed and essences but you are going to rarely find a GSOA or go to qvic where youre gonna make jack shit for plat, get some essences and a higher chance of a GSOA. Or, even worse, you need to work T10 and the damn things just wont drop with any frequency vs the amount of mobs youre killing to complete the quests in T10. I mean were talking 1000's of mobs and not seeing 1 drop. T9 were talking 1000's of mobs killed and notta. Qvic were talking 100's of mobs killed and seeing drops. For pete's sake, and I think I said this, I farmed quite a few mobs in T9 on DL and didn't see one GSOA, I pop into HOH and got 3 in an hour, I was like WTF, all the time I'm hearing/seeing people get GSOA's in qvic and in other HOH instances. TOV, nope, OC, nope, Sunder, nope. Believe it or not, after you've done a zone over a 1000 runs or more, like some of us have for those lower tiers, shit gets old. And you have the desire to stab your eyes with rusty screwdrivers at just the thought of making the instance to go to Qvic or HOH. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Mersedez on March 08, 2016, 01:10:30 pm The issue is RNG though. I cleared HoH all weekend during double loot and saw my first gsoa on the one clear I did on abyss. Wouldn't that contradict the idea that they drop more in earlier tiers. Though outside of double loot I've gotten 0 in hoh and 2 in one pull of qvic. I'm just saying is there and evidence that it actually is more common in earlier tiers? But maybe that hate doesn't know? By your own admission you probably kill more in T9 than I do in hoh, so technically you should see them more frequently, but RNG.... I've seen 7 since my bro and I have been back and he has seen 1. Granted I'm clearing zone almost all day everyday. Basically what I'm stating is before going crazy about adjusting drop rates maybe it should brought to hates attention that the RNG isn't the same in all zones (unless that is intended). Your guys bad luck doesn't mean there is an issue. I'd also like to note I killed thousands upon thousands in HoH over the weekend. Not just 100 and didn't see any. By your claims I should of at least seen 2. Also, typing this from phone I apologize for mistakes in response. This isn't bad luck at all. It's basically that the higher tiers they just don't exist. I haven't seen 1 GSOA drop in TOV and OC while I was farming essences for my UW. Right now I'm starting another UW doing Qvic all over again and only at 53 essences but I've looted 4 gsoa's total. The amount of mobs you have to kill in Qvic for 1 essence is not nearly the amount you have to kill in ToV or OC. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Ponzi on March 08, 2016, 01:51:16 pm I second the notion that TOV is bone-dry. I think in 700 essences worth of TOV pull (another discussion-worthy item: TOV essence drops) I saw one GSOA. In 700 essences of OldCommons I saw maybe a dozen. About a dozen in T7, maybe 2 dozen in Anguish... And a metric $#!+load in Qvic and HOH and CT.
The real tragedy is Cazic Thule used to be the best rate by far, but the second all the gems were added as loot it became TOV-level bone-dry. That place barely drops unicorn poop anymore, much less GSOA. GSOA is a weird item to pinpoint, since it drops so rarely to begin with. Which may be part of the issue to begin with: Even with the entire server after it, it's still a small sample size from a date tracking standpoint. As far as a long term progression fix, the only reason its worth anything is because of the ease of getting the AAs. Your AA accumulation vastly outpaces your GSOA accumulation. If Hate was ever able to get the XP/AA scaled back like he wanted to without everyone getting hot and bothered, the demand would be way down for GSOA. It's a completely artificial scarcity: it drops at a rate reasonable AA growth would have gotten along with. It doesn't drop at the rate a nation of newly full t8/t9+ hordes who grew up quickly with nexus MGB loving need it to. Welcome to mudflation. :) Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Ponzi on March 08, 2016, 02:00:40 pm So maybe the issue is qvic. On hates grocery list he wanted to script all the zones. It looks like he did qvic but none of the other zones yet? Anyone know? Maybe that resulted in something? Scripting the zone shouldn't affect a drop rate one iota. Look at your basic mass pull zones: Tofs - no gsoa Qvic - good to go. CT - covered above, but hard on ur fingers to mass pull, and recently nerfed HOH- good to go. POD - good to go. Airplane - good to go Abyss - pretty low in both ess and gsoa. ppl spend minimal time here Anguish - pretty good to go etc... Two secret GSOA paradises (at least during dbl loot cuz no one ever messes with them otherwise) are T1/T2 and airplane. The downside, of course being that both have token/crystal limiting factors. Basically people run these two zones 1/50th as often as they run the others, if that. No one will admit it though, because the less competition in the WTB Tokens market the month before a dbl loot event, the better. secret's out. So if you factor in Qvic/t1/t2/airplane/hoh/anguish, there is more GSOA friendly places than not. Its just that 50% of these places are not mass pullable.. and more likely to be enjoyed by people progressing through the actual content. Hunter loved to troll. Hate does to. Never ever be terribly surprised when something errors on the side of helping aid a player-based economy. Intentional or not, it makes them both smile . :) Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: balidet on March 08, 2016, 04:40:55 pm The real problem is the MGB of buffs in the nexus...maybe...since people cant seem to help themselves... they could simple remove MGB from the game...
no pitchforks please.. this may bring some balance back to the force. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Dimur on March 08, 2016, 06:01:58 pm The problem isn't as simple as MGB buffs in the Nexus, but more that people can simply buff beg in /ooc until someone mgb's a round of T8+ buffs and throws on a ridiculous-to-relevant-content exp buff of 100+ % exp. The fact that you need to do nothing other than be present when the buffs are cast to receive full benefit from them regardless of your tier relative to the buffs being cast is where the issue lies, in my opinion. You can sit and argue about how lowbies need to be able to gouge the shit out of end-gamers when selling GSOA so they can afford to make their strikes or whatever, but the simple fact of the matter is that if people progressed at the pace which the content was intended then they wouldn't need to fund advancement by selling them in the first place.
Strike augs used to be hard as hell to make, not only farming the components for them but the plat required to buy the ores didn't drop at anywhere near the pace it does now. Over the years, people constantly brought up the valid point of the amount of time and plat required to be able to make strike augs to be able to advance through content. And over the years, Hunter and Hate have implemented multiple fixes for this in the form of adding plat bags to progression content. People used to farm Qvic just to farm the gem drops so they could sell them because LDoN and Tacvi didn't have realistic drop rates. I remember breaking into PoDragons and thinking I hit the cash cow because of the gems that would drop from chests. But HoH and Air didn't offer much platwise either unless you chased Shadow for his gem drops while farming v2 upgrades. And when you hit the next gut-check zone, T5, you had access to plat bags dropping off of the trash. Other than the fact that the bags didn't stack and you'd constantly have to head back to the zone in to sell, this was a good way to farm the plat you needed to upgrade strike augs as you worked on the kill quest. T6 was plat city, relative to the previous content with the Mata chests guaranteeing you'd get a solid haul on a full clear. All of this shit took time, there was immersion and the content was challenging enough to not make it a mindless tag and kill farm. With the access to the MGB buffs people pump out in Nexus like a hoarde of kids with Pez dispensers, you don't even start to experience the content on level until around T6, not to mention the massive exp gains people get relative to the content the are doing compared to what it was baselined before mask of experience ever existed. Couple that with every tier of progression post Time being able to drop plat bags at a rate that should, in itself suffice for gearing up and progressing through and you can begin to understand the point I'm trying to make. After a certain point in progression, you have all the strike augs you need and mana necks are finished but the incoming plat rate stays steady. When the only plat sinks left are the ones you've already finished, all you do is start to accrue a bankroll. This is why people pay 10mil per gsoa, because they don't have anything else to spend plat on unless they are doing another UW for alts. Even then, you have to either backfarm the components or keep grinding relevant content and buying essences for whatever they are selling for. But since you have nothing else to grind for, it's pretty easy to drop 10mil on something you know you probably won't see for weeks or more...knowing you'll grind well over that much plat just waiting for one to drop anyhow. They sell for that much and more, because the person buying them estimates how long it'll take to farm the plat back and realize they'll still come out ahead. They do NOT sell for that much because new players need to make strike augs or mana necks, it just enables them to make them at a rate that exceeds their rate of progression. How do you fix what's broken? I don't know, but it's a discussion that is going to have a multitude of varying viewpoints and opinions ranging from it's not broken at all to remove all access to anyone not relevant to the intended content. It's anyone's guess what the relevant content is, because just like any game it's dynamic and it changes with the ebb and flow. My opinon is that when you disregard level or progression relevant mitigating factors, that's when the system stresses and breaks. Level 70's with 3 hour buffs putting them at 100k hp plowing through Qvic, getting up to 300+ % experience gains beyond what the zone was designed around dropping gsoa's that they can turn around and get 10mil+ for? It's hard to make an argument supporting that as healthy for the server as a whole. I could honestly care less about gsoa dropping in progression zones because it allows me to buy them from people who are far from being able to use them for the Ear and gives me something that I can spend my plat on instead of just acquiring more and more. I think it's weird that the drop rate in lower tiers seem to be at best on par with drop rates at higher tiers of content, but I also used to feel that the hardest part of progressing the Ear should have been the AA's required to advance it. But with the Pez dispensing exp buffs in the Nexus firing off like the finale at a 4th of July fireworks show, it'd be hard to defend that stance anymore. I do still take issue with there being no limit to the benefit received from mgb buffs, level 70's shouldn't have access to level 78 buffs. Maybe either degrade the buffs by a certain % per level cast on or just limit it to current buff level -2 levels. If people still wanted to dole out buffs, they could mem their level 72 buffs and mgb those to level 70's. This post isn't meant to sound elitist or argumentative, my game play is not hindered by the current system, I can do what I need to do and changing the status quo doesn't benefit me at all. This is simply me observing what I see as detrimental to the health of the server and offering up a few points for debate. tl;dr Lots of babble, too many buff beggars clamoring for MGB's instead of just consuming content in level relevant buffs. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Subdued on March 08, 2016, 06:12:23 pm I can definitely confirm that qvic was stupidly easy with buffs and felt just right without them. The problem doesn't just exist with that though. T1/t2 without buffs were way too easy. It needs a difficulty bump, but the rate at which a new player would acquire crystals if the dragons were buffed would be too low. There has to be a way to accomplish both. That's why I hated t1/t2 so much: too easy and mobs too far spread out combined with awful t1 crystal rates. I hated it.
Buff the dragons, increase the crystal rate and then drop the essence chance rate slightly to accommodate the increased crystal rate. Would be a much better zone. As it stands there's no risk because it's all single pulls and by the time you're qvic/ct geared they hit like wet noodles. Qvic unbuffed as a newbie was 1000% harder. Kathina Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: balidet on March 08, 2016, 06:22:15 pm Quote The problem isn't as simple as MGB buffs in the Nexus, but more that people can simply buff beg in /ooc until someone mgb's a round of T8+ buffs and throws on a ridiculous-to-relevant-content exp buff of 100+ % exp. The fact that you need to do nothing other than be present when the buffs are cast to receive full benefit from them regardless of your tier relative to the buffs being cast is where the issue lies, in my opinion. You can sit and argue about how lowbies need to be able to gouge the shit out of end-gamers when selling GSOA so they can afford to make their strikes or whatever, but the simple fact of the matter is that if people progressed at the pace which the content was intended then they wouldn't need to fund advancement by selling them in the first place. Strike augs used to be hard as hell to make, not only farming the components for them but the plat required to buy the ores didn't drop at anywhere near the pace it does now. Over the years, people constantly brought up the valid point of the amount of time and plat required to be able to make strike augs to be able to advance through content. And over the years, Hunter and Hate have implemented multiple fixes for this in the form of adding plat bags to progression content. People used to farm Qvic just to farm the gem drops so they could sell them because LDoN and Tacvi didn't have realistic drop rates. I remember breaking into PoDragons and thinking I hit the cash cow because of the gems that would drop from chests. But HoH and Air didn't offer much platwise either unless you chased Shadow for his gem drops while farming v2 upgrades. And when you hit the next gut-check zone, T5, you had access to plat bags dropping off of the trash. Other than the fact that the bags didn't stack and you'd constantly have to head back to the zone in to sell, this was a good way to farm the plat you needed to upgrade strike augs as you worked on the kill quest. T6 was plat city, relative to the previous content with the Mata chests guaranteeing you'd get a solid haul on a full clear. All of this shit took time, there was immersion and the content was challenging enough to not make it a mindless tag and kill farm. With the access to the MGB buffs people pump out in Nexus like a hoarde of kids with Pez dispensers, you don't even start to experience the content on level until around T6, not to mention the massive exp gains people get relative to the content the are doing compared to what it was baselined before mask of experience ever existed. Couple that with every tier of progression post Time being able to drop plat bags at a rate that should, in itself suffice for gearing up and progressing through and you can begin to understand the point I'm trying to make. After a certain point in progression, you have all the strike augs you need and mana necks are finished but the incoming plat rate stays steady. When the only plat sinks left are the ones you've already finished, all you do is start to accrue a bankroll. This is why people pay 10mil per gsoa, because they don't have anything else to spend plat on unless they are doing another UW for alts. Even then, you have to either backfarm the components or keep grinding relevant content and buying essences for whatever they are selling for. But since you have nothing else to grind for, it's pretty easy to drop 10mil on something you know you probably won't see for weeks or more...knowing you'll grind well over that much plat just waiting for one to drop anyhow. They sell for that much and more, because the person buying them estimates how long it'll take to farm the plat back and realize they'll still come out ahead. They do NOT sell for that much because new players need to make strike augs or mana necks, it just enables them to make them at a rate that exceeds their rate of progression. How do you fix what's broken? I don't know, but it's a discussion that is going to have a multitude of varying viewpoints and opinions ranging from it's not broken at all to remove all access to anyone not relevant to the intended content. It's anyone's guess what the relevant content is, because just like any game it's dynamic and it changes with the ebb and flow. My opinon is that when you disregard level or progression relevant mitigating factors, that's when the system stresses and breaks. Level 70's with 3 hour buffs putting them at 100k hp plowing through Qvic, getting up to 300+ % experience gains beyond what the zone was designed around dropping gsoa's that they can turn around and get 10mil+ for? It's hard to make an argument supporting that as healthy for the server as a whole. I could honestly care less about gsoa dropping in progression zones because it allows me to buy them from people who are far from being able to use them for the Ear and gives me something that I can spend my plat on instead of just acquiring more and more. I think it's weird that the drop rate in lower tiers seem to be at best on par with drop rates at higher tiers of content, but I also used to feel that the hardest part of progressing the Ear should have been the AA's required to advance it. But with the Pez dispensing exp buffs in the Nexus firing off like the finale at a 4th of July fireworks show, it'd be hard to defend that stance anymore. I do still take issue with there being no limit to the benefit received from mgb buffs, level 70's shouldn't have access to level 78 buffs. Maybe either degrade the buffs by a certain % per level cast on or just limit it to current buff level -2 levels. If people still wanted to dole out buffs, they could mem their level 72 buffs and mgb those to level 70's. This post isn't meant to sound elitist or argumentative, my game play is not hindered by the current system, I can do what I need to do and changing the status quo doesn't benefit me at all. This is simply me observing what I see as detrimental to the health of the server and offering up a few points for debate. tl;dr Lots of babble, too many buff beggars clamoring for MGB's instead of just consuming content in level relevant buffs. Posted on: Today at 04:40:55 PM Posted by: balidet Insert Quote The real problem is the MGB of buffs in the nexus...maybe...since people cant seem to help themselves... they could simple remove MGB from the game... no pitchforks please.. this may bring some balance back to the force. yes...100% yesssss It is not the server that is broken its the rampant buffing and its throwing off the entire damn system... Whatever the fix is it is going to suck. the MGB fix would mean you have to target a group leader to buff the group.... and you may need a second xp mask.../gasp for the other group. but even if we fix this some tool bags will still be in the nexus "helping" new players buffing them all day... I don't like stating problems without answers... Limit buffs to like levels? +1/1-? Remove the xp mask? __holy!SHIT!__ remove MGB entirely? --meh-- stop all casting in the newbie/nexus zones (you have to buff when you are xping) what is it going to take? Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Subdued on March 08, 2016, 06:43:20 pm Wasn't saying it was hard with 1 group without buffs, just that it wasn't trivial. I would pull 3-4 mobs at a time max when I first zoned in and then added some more when I got more gear and 2.0s/2.5s. It felt just right.
T1/T2 on the other hand was always trivial and I was pulling half the zone from the start. By the way, I hope nobody thinks nerfing buffs or making the early tiers more difficult will in any way help with GSOA prices. On the contrary, if making early tiers harder are the only change then the price of GSOA will go up considerably higher than they are now. Kathina Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Dimur on March 08, 2016, 06:47:17 pm Many people who agree with this are ones also sitting in nexus still giving buffs..... Neither Hurty nor I do buffs in the Nexus, not sure who you're referring to with this Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: gnonim on March 08, 2016, 07:26:19 pm I like the +\- 1 or two levels idea. That makes sense.
Btw, 6 boxed Qvic and got my first 3.0 without outside buffs and without knowing about the focus of healing spell... After getting that heal spell, the other 3.0's were relatively easy. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Raygan on March 08, 2016, 08:38:47 pm I do have to say the OP has been spamming to try and buy these for 10mil which is probably what lead to this thread to start in the first place. Either mad they are being sold for more than he wants to pay or mad that he can't get them more commonly in higher tiers. Yes I was auctioning to buy these at 10 million each. that has NOTHING to do with the post. I have made 2 SoA all the way up in the last two weeks when T10 was down. money isnt the issue. It's the point that an item like that shouldnt drop in lower tiers at a higher rate than it does in upper tiers. It also has to do with the fact that BOTH Ultimate Weapon and EoA were initially started to be end-game items...so why not have the quests start at end-game or close to end game (UW started in T7 and EoA T8(or as hunter said after someone finishes RoA 1000))....this thread was started as a "discussion" thread and you have turned it into a "Raygan is trying to hurt the server what an asshole thread"...and i am an asshole so your liking/disliking me doesnt bother me one bit. Why should I complete a FULL set of T10 gear on 2 warriors and not see one GSoA? maybe you dont understand the significance of that but that is killing THOUSANDS of tough as shit mobs dieing hundreds and hundreds of times...yet i can go to a zone where i can train every fucking mob in the zone slaughter them all in less than 30 seconds and have a better shot? Thats not RNG. Thats stupid. Once again these items were meant for one thing but have turned into something else entirely. It is hurting the server in the long run. Of course I have been all for removing UW from the game and i have several of them on various toons. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Raygan on March 08, 2016, 08:47:27 pm Why ask for an increase in drop rate when they shouldnt drop in early tiers at all? i f an item is meant for "end game" players than it should drop in ONLY end game tiers....that fixes a fucked up server economy.
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Dimur on March 08, 2016, 09:21:37 pm Eli, Ray's absolutely correct as far as the intended target for both the UW and Earring quests, spin doctoring and hyperbole aside, your point should be maintaining that components of the quests dropping in earlier tiers doesn't necessarily mean that part of the equation is broken. If the intent for the Ear was that you had to farm the components yourself, they would never have been put on the global loot table for custom zones. You can still farm the ear without buying stones from other people, but it's going to take lot longer to do and that's because of the horrid drop rate being a constant regardless of tier. Barring a revamp of tier by tier drop rate for gsoa, maybe consider asking for zone specific type currency that each zone's Level Up wench or similar npc could accept for turning in X number of X item that drops randomly throughout the zone. Make the gsoa you get from that npc somehow non-tradeable and level lock your Level Up option to only using the zone your character is highest flagged for. That way you aren't T10 flagged and plowing T6 for easy gsoa farms, and allow the Level Up to buy the previous tier currency at a reduced return rate...so 10 of T8 item X for 1 of the T9, 100 of the T7 for 1 T9, etc. You could still buy the tradeable, random drop gsoa from players selling but you aren't captive to it since you can work on getting them through normal zone grinding.
As far as level locking or removing UW altogether, that's a fight that has been drawn out time and again and where it's at right now seems to be a fair enough compromise for everyone. If some retard wants to allocate all their resources working on a single UW and foregoing strike and mana neck upgrades for alts, who cares. People are going to find things they like about the EZ Grind and they may not be the best or most efficient path, but if it engages and immerses them enough to log on and grind, more power to them. I'll constantly shake my head at their choice, but it really isn't going to negatively affect my gameplay. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Subdued on March 08, 2016, 09:24:51 pm Why ask for an increase in drop rate when they shouldnt drop in early tiers at all? i f an item is meant for "end game" players than it should drop in ONLY end game tiers....that fixes a fucked up server economy. I'm not sure how you expect a reduction in the supply to somehow decrease the price. It would only increase it. So yeah, even if you wanted to remove it from lower tier content completely you would still need to increase the drop rate significantly in the higher tiers in order to reduce the price. Otherwise you'd have higher tier players even more frustrated when their only source of GSOA are the zones they state that there are terrible drop rates in. Just removing them from earlier tiers and changing nothing else is probably about the worst fix to accomplish your goal here. Kathina Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Subdued on March 08, 2016, 09:29:31 pm You guys are creating a scenario that doesn't exist. The earring is not being leveled up to 10, 20, 30 or otherwise by players in t2/t3/t4 or even t5. It's not easy for a lower tier player to accumulate 200k AAs for even a level 10 earring without being in t7 or t8 at the least. You would have to try really hard and intentionally not progress in order to have a level 10 earring and still be in t5 or lower. If a player wants to allocate their resources to getting a level 10 earring in t7, who cares? That's not that far from endgame. It doesn't take away from it being a later stage accomplishment. You guys are completely skewing the arguments here.
Kathina Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Dimur on March 09, 2016, 12:07:03 am Nobody has to point out anyone in Qvic with an EoA 50 because nobody claimed that people were doing EoA in Qvic gear...choosing to ignore points offered up does not mean that the points are invalid. I'm confused how either of the previous 2 posters are having an issue understanding the point OP was trying to make. You can certainly disagree with it, but this hyperbole is ridiculous. I'll do my best to clarify what I understand as OP's point.
1. UW and Earring of Ages were designed and intended to be something that END GAME people could focus on, as per Hunter's original intent 2. EoA's mitigating factor for progressing it is gsoa...the AA required are pretty much negligible given the current plethora of people doling out MGB exp boosts 3. GSoA drop with at least as much frequency or more in lower tiered zones as they do in higher tiered zones I don't necessarily agree with OP's opinions, but I feel quite compelled to point out that he never once said that anyone in Qvic is sporting an EoA 50, nor did he infer that this is the issue he has with the current system. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Raygan on March 09, 2016, 04:16:16 am Thank you, Dimur for clarifying, what it seems i couldnt.
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Raygan on March 09, 2016, 04:23:45 am Quote I'm not sure how you expect a reduction in the supply to somehow decrease the price. It would only increase it. So yeah, even if you wanted to remove it from lower tier content completely you would still need to increase the drop rate significantly in the higher tiers in order to reduce the price. My problem is not that the gsoa is a rare drop in t7/t8/9/10....it's that it drops in Qvic/CT/t1/t2/t3/t4/t5/t6/......where people dont need a 10-15m item....that messes up the economy...if it ONLY droped in t7/8/9/10 then only the people who were at a point to possibly need it would be getting it....and you probably wouldnt see it sold...becuase they would need the item. Wonder why you dont see things for sale in content you dont want to go back to EVER again? Because someone just scored a GSoA so they dont need to sell spare ess of x or SLS...they have access to an item that is above what is needed....they move up too quickly...get burned out because they dont get xyz....leave server and we are worse of than we were before....here is another idea if you didnt like the first one. Remove UW/EoA all together....then this would be a none issue and the server economy would auto correct itself. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: AcuteAnthrax on March 09, 2016, 05:11:10 am Why is UW related to this issue exactly?
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Rent Due on March 09, 2016, 05:33:13 am I honestly think at this point this thread could be locked. Because it's starting to devolve into a mud slinging contest. All issues, points and contentions have been made clear at this junction.
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Subdued on March 09, 2016, 06:22:28 am Nobody has to point out anyone in Qvic with an EoA 50 because nobody claimed that people were doing EoA in Qvic gear...choosing to ignore points offered up does not mean that the points are invalid. I'm confused how either of the previous 2 posters are having an issue understanding the point OP was trying to make. You can certainly disagree with it, but this hyperbole is ridiculous. I'll do my best to clarify what I understand as OP's point. 1. UW and Earring of Ages were designed and intended to be something that END GAME people could focus on, as per Hunter's original intent 2. EoA's mitigating factor for progressing it is gsoa...the AA required are pretty much negligible given the current plethora of people doling out MGB exp boosts 3. EoA drop with at least as much frequency or more in lower tiered zones as they do in higher tiered zones I don't necessarily agree with OP's opinions, but I feel quite compelled to point out that he never once said that anyone in Qvic is sporting an EoA 50, nor did he infer that this is the issue he has with the current system. I'm not in any way confused about the OP's point or his further points. I specifically stated examples of ways to repair the situation and supported the idea of making the items no drop and/or reducing their drop rates in earlier tiers. You seem to think I'm somehow disagreeing that a problem exists and you're taking sides here, when I have done nothing of the sort. Eliseus maybe has, but he's his own man and can defend himself. The OP's argument, however, has begun to take tangents which are inconsistent to his premise. He started by talking about its effects on how it ruins the economy, which is a valid argument. He said making the content too easy by having early tier players have instant access to 10s of millions of plat would cause them to leave the server when they breezed through it too quickly. Yes, that's a valid argument, too. Then the thread began to take strange tangents regarding Hunter's original intent for the item, and he specifically stated himself that the earring shouldn't be a doable quest prior to RoA 1000, and that the quest shouldn't be startable until higher tiers. However, these last two points are irrelevant to the GSOA's effect on the economy, thus why I'm pointing out the inconsistency. If you want lower level players to not have access to lots of plat from selling GSOA, make them no drop or reduce their drop rate. However, if you want to state that players are leaving the server because they breeze through content too quickly, then fine. That's valid, too. But don't think for a second that making players farm GLS for hours on end as players did in the past, or to farm qvic trash for plat bag drops, in order to gear their toons with strikes and necks and SotA isn't going to make them quit too. Farming GLS is the most mind-numbingly boring farm on the server. In addition to that, as stated repeatedly, if you just remove the GSOA from dropping in lower tiers completely without increasing its drop rate in higher tiers, it's only going to exponentially increase the frustration of players attempting to level the earring (and I'm one myself, currently) due to your reducing its supply by 1/2 or more. So what's the fix? Remove GSOA from lower tiers and have it only drop from higher tiers is not a good fix, sorry. Not on its own, anyway. I realize Hunter gets a lot of love around here due to his creation of something everyone loves, and I'm sure it's well deserved. His legacy lives on and everyone is doing their best to progress the server's evolution based on the legacy they feel he wanted to continue to mold. With that said, I'm sure he made plenty of changes to the server that went contrary to his earlier visions. There's not necessarily a need to make the Earring only be an endgame item. He may have decided that at some point on his own, as well. So overall I agree on the "plat lottery that is GSOA" being harmful for younger players, however I think GLS farming is even worse. Here's my personal opinion, formulated by some great posts in the thread, as well as some of my own ideas, to address most of the issues presented in the thread: 1) As was stated by some other posters, alter the level which buffs can hit lower level players. 2 levels sounds solid, but I don't think it's necessary. Instead, just make it so that the buffs don't land on a player that's not at least in T3. Buffs make a huge difference at 70 and 71. At 72? Not even remotely as beneficial. Their issue at 70 and 71 isn't the % of HP gain from Oak, it's the total flat HP gain. The % of HP gain is what makes the buff better for players as they earn higher tier gear. 2) Remove GSOA drops from T1-T4. Allow them to drop in T5 or higher. Also, make them no drop. Players in T5 can still try to sell no drop looting rights. At this point is when they start to need an additional source of plat because strike augs and mana necks are a lot more important to speed up their progression, particularly in a zone like T5. 3) Institute a plat sink alternative for GSOA. Have it purchaseable for 20m from a vendor. Every MMORPG has inflation issues, whether it's EQ, EQ-Emu, WoW, or any other MMORPG, with old servers having too much plat in the 1%. If you're going to remove a source of platinum for lower level players, you have to also take some away from the highest tier players or else you have a broken economy in the other direction. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: balidet on March 09, 2016, 11:09:48 am ladies and gentelman let us not lose sight of the true reason for GSOA..... the mask of illusions!
I mean come on...thats where its at man...dont waste them on a stupid earring! I want to be the first player with 12 masks.. that is all.. ohh and don't bring up the removing the UW.... if you remove the UW then wtf am I going to do? log in and hold my balls in t10? Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: warrior5 on March 09, 2016, 11:15:39 am More end game QQ from Orthanos and crew. GSOA dropping in lower tiers is cool and lowbies barely benefit from the 3 or so they sell. Stop trying to re-write the rules for lowbies it makes you look petty. Plus Balidet is right, GSOA is only useful for mask of illusions anyway.
Also I am going to start making this point over and over for end game folks who QQ from now on: THIS GAME AT ALL STAGES IS NOT TRIVIAL. IT'S EXTREMELY F'ING HARD. ANY END GAMER WHO SAYS IT'S TRIVIAL IS CLUELESSLY FORGETTING THEY HAVE MAX TOONS TO SUPPORT NEW CHARACTERS. NEW PLAYERS DON'T HAVE THAT AND IT CHANGES PROGRESSION SPEED BY A FACTOR OF AT LEAST 10,000X. THX. Quit QQing and have fun! ;D Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Raygan on March 09, 2016, 03:44:59 pm 1) As was stated by some other posters, alter the level which buffs can hit lower level players. 2 levels sounds solid, but I don't think it's necessary. Instead, just make it so that the buffs don't land on a player that's not at least in T3. Buffs make a huge difference at 70 and 71. At 72? Not even remotely as beneficial. Their issue at 70 and 71 isn't the % of HP gain from Oak, it's the total flat HP gain. The % of HP gain is what makes the buff better for players as they earn higher tier gear.
2) Remove GSOA drops from T1-T4. Allow them to drop in T5 or higher. Also, make them no drop. Players in T5 can still try to sell no drop looting rights. At this point is when they start to need an additional source of plat because strike augs and mana necks are a lot more important to speed up their progression, particularly in a zone like T5. 3) Institute a plat sink alternative for GSOA. Have it purchaseable for 20m from a vendor. Every MMORPG has inflation issues, whether it's EQ, EQ-Emu, WoW, or any other MMORPG, with old servers having too much plat in the 1%. If you're going to remove a source of platinum for lower level players, you have to also take some away from the highest tier players or else you have a broken economy in the other direction. I like all of this the only thing I think I may bend a little is maybe have it start t6 (although I still like t8 better but hey thats just me) all in all i think you got a pretty good middle ground going there. And to my buddy Eliseus...once again you continue to take everything i say out of context...but i have come to expect that from you. Warrior5....all i can say is eat a dick and choke on it. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: warrior5 on March 09, 2016, 04:29:33 pm 1) As was stated by some other posters, alter the level which buffs can hit lower level players. 2 levels sounds solid, but I don't think it's necessary. Instead, just make it so that the buffs don't land on a player that's not at least in T3. Buffs make a huge difference at 70 and 71. At 72? Not even remotely as beneficial. Their issue at 70 and 71 isn't the % of HP gain from Oak, it's the total flat HP gain. The % of HP gain is what makes the buff better for players as they earn higher tier gear. 2) Remove GSOA drops from T1-T4. Allow them to drop in T5 or higher. Also, make them no drop. Players in T5 can still try to sell no drop looting rights. At this point is when they start to need an additional source of plat because strike augs and mana necks are a lot more important to speed up their progression, particularly in a zone like T5. 3) Institute a plat sink alternative for GSOA. Have it purchaseable for 20m from a vendor. Every MMORPG has inflation issues, whether it's EQ, EQ-Emu, WoW, or any other MMORPG, with old servers having too much plat in the 1%. If you're going to remove a source of platinum for lower level players, you have to also take some away from the highest tier players or else you have a broken economy in the other direction. I like all of this the only thing I think I may bend a little is maybe have it start t6 (although I still like t8 better but hey thats just me) all in all i think you got a pretty good middle ground going there. And to my buddy Eliseus...once again you continue to take everything i say out of context...but i have come to expect that from you. Warrior5....all i can say is eat a dick and choke on it. Lol genius ::) Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Loyal on March 09, 2016, 05:41:55 pm 1) As was stated by some other posters, alter the level which buffs can hit lower level players. 2 levels sounds solid, but I don't think it's necessary. Instead, just make it so that the buffs don't land on a player that's not at least in T3. Buffs make a huge difference at 70 and 71. At 72? Not even remotely as beneficial. Their issue at 70 and 71 isn't the % of HP gain from Oak, it's the total flat HP gain. The % of HP gain is what makes the buff better for players as they earn higher tier gear. I wrote out this nice big response then said fuck it……the point of my response was that these buffs aren’t as meaningful as you believe they are. They are great and helpful, I agree, but the benefit a lower player receives from having buffs for 24 hours of play time pales in comparison to tagging along with an essence farmer and looting their ROT for 30 minutes. Leave the buffs alone, it’s not really that important to make people spend a little bit more time in the lower tiers by making sure they pull less mobs. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: balidet on March 09, 2016, 06:04:21 pm nerf the buffs! nerf the buffs!
dont make GSOA no drop..thats just a pain in the ass.. adjust the drop rate some? ...meh...nah..just leave it alone... make them no rent! cause...that shit is now fixed.. you are welcome.. no hoarding..market will only be for what is available right now... wait wait... no drop and no rent thats the ticket... price will come down.... the timmer will be ticken when one drops!:) admit I had a smart! do it! Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Ponzi on March 09, 2016, 06:05:01 pm The one beautiful thing about newbies and GSOA selling is this:
It allows them to access to a lottery in which they progress in their normal QVIC/CT/POD/HOH type zones to better their characters. They get to actually kill content with the small chance a GSOA or unicorn poop drops. And they can sell that to buy their DPS stuffz (strike augs/SLS/mana necks etc). They can do dranik and get essences, SLS, plat, uw augs (eventually)... They get to progress and have fun on the server instead of ask in /ooc 'my crew is 70 now what should i do?" .... and get the ooc response 'Spend the next 5 weeks in jagged pine to 'progress'. Thats a big win for the server and for new player retention. The only real loss is people don't really farm SLS in bulk anymore so people gotta drag their 18 toons through dranik themselves instead of buy them with plat off younger players. I'm well ok with that. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Ponzi on March 09, 2016, 06:08:15 pm And seriously, anyone who has issue with MGBs and spreading the wealth and power and helping out their fellow players..
Needs both sunlight and human contact in a bad, bad way. This server was built on a helpful community, it separates us from the idiots answering text messages at 4 am to log in and deprive others of content. And its why people stay here. :) Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: warrior5 on March 09, 2016, 06:28:06 pm And seriously, anyone who has issue with MGBs and spreading the wealth and power and helping out their fellow players.. Needs both sunlight and human contact in a bad, bad way. This server was built on a helpful community, it separates us from the idiots answering text messages at 4 am to log in and deprive others of content. And its why people stay here. :) this Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Dimur on March 09, 2016, 07:10:14 pm I have a differing opinion regarding no restrictions on content relevant overpowering buffs, I don't think totally trivializing content for newer players is helping them at all. I also could care less if someone chooses do take it upon themselves to MGB a round of buffs, if it's your position that speeding people through lower tiers is going to help the server community that's fine. I don't admonish people in /ooc for doing MGB's because I honestly think they are doing what they think is helpful for the most part, my stance that it is the opposite of helpful in no way means I'm somehow vitamin d deficient. There are a lot of people who offer help in other ways, don't pat yourself on the back because you rallied the hoarde into the Nexus so you can help them somehow survive the cruel online world of EZ denziens with a round of buffs. This server was built on a helpful community, that's correct...but what you might consider helpful to the community might be different than what someone else does.
I feel much more connected to this community when I see people ask questions in /ooc and get actual answers instead of the canned, Read the wiki, responses. I feel much more connected to this community when I see someone accidentally destroy an epic 3.0 and someone takes time out to run them back through farming them a new one, because to the person who lost the item it meant everything to them. I feel much more connected when someone gets pissed and vents about how running through LDoN before you're fully keyed through 6 sucks and has someone offer to run them through to remove the tedium. I also feel much less connected when I see buff beggars hanging out in the Nexus constantly asking if anyone will come do MGB buffs and Exp mask buffs rather than just doing the content until someone /ooc's to gather in the Nexus to do MGB's. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Ponzi on March 09, 2016, 07:41:53 pm Well said, Dim.
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Noot on March 09, 2016, 07:54:52 pm How I Feel About This Whole Thread (https://youtu.be/ypIdl4fDKwg) I'll spam my shitty T8 buffs and you'll like it. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Openwounds on March 09, 2016, 09:56:11 pm I do agree with gsoa making it too easy early on for new players. When they actually have to start grinding out multiple UW's they will get burned out faster.
I just came back after a few month break and all my strike augs were deleted but i found that getting sls isnt all that bad. I got 289 sls in 6hrs of farming with 15chars during DL. Thats enough to pretty much strike aug most my dps chars in 1 day. SLS are much faster to obtain than gods major or tov essence. You might have to put your full attention to all your characters for a few hours because there is no "/bcaa //loot itemname" command that i know of. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: balidet on March 09, 2016, 10:19:51 pm wait wait....you macros sls?
lolz Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Loyal on March 09, 2016, 10:20:49 pm I got 289 sls in 6hrs of farming with 15chars Praise be to god that you are still with us. There are few brave enough to attempt what you did and even few that could come out on the other side with a pulse. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Openwounds on March 10, 2016, 12:28:29 am 6 hours of at the computer. Bcaa stick wisp. Bcaa auto attack. Bcaa loot. Then go char to char looting screen by screen. Reset corpses hotbutton since 10% of the time the corpse is bugged and can't loot. I have nothing automated as every action is a keypress . Its very monotonous but just put your head down and grinding it out during DL is not that bad
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Brannyn on March 10, 2016, 07:43:48 am and here I thought my 12 sls per hour doing the minis was pretty decent (also repetitive and super boring)
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Subdued on March 10, 2016, 08:42:28 am 6 hours of at the computer. Bcaa stick wisp. Bcaa auto attack. Bcaa loot. Then go char to char looting screen by screen. Reset corpses hotbutton since 10% of the time the corpse is bugged and can't loot. I have nothing automated as every action is a keypress . Its very monotonous but just put your head down and grinding it out during DL is not that bad Yeah sorry, something doesn't add up in the math. You have 15 instances open? If not, how would you prevent the toons from constantly sticking to the same wisp? Even if you intentionally started by spreading them out they would come together pretty quickly. Not saying you didn't do what you said, but with just simple stick and auto attack commands that sounds like a huge clusterf***. Kathina Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: balidet on March 10, 2016, 10:19:12 am I was under the impression that /target /stick /kill on one hotkey is boting...
I have been wrong before Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Loyal on March 10, 2016, 11:13:10 am I was under the impression that /target /stick /kill on one hotkey is boting... I have been wrong before Please tell me you are tabbing through all of your characters to put attack on..... :o Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Subdued on March 10, 2016, 11:24:08 am I'm pretty sure he means he uses one key for /bca //target id ${Me.ID}
and then a second key for /bca //stick 10 hold !front and then a third for /bca //attack on ...but yeah, I don't think Hate minds if we put those 3 in one hotkey is what I've always understood. He just doesn't want us using mq2melee to auto-backstab/flying kick or using casting macros to auto-nuke non-stop. I don't think balidet means he's tabbing to each screen to auto attack. :D Kathina Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Ponzi on March 10, 2016, 03:01:32 pm and here I thought my 12 sls per hour doing the minis was pretty decent (also repetitive and super boring) Decent is the AA + essences + plat. Multitasking always wins out :) I was under the impression that /target /stick /kill on one hotkey is boting... I have been wrong before The /kill certainly is, if its in there. I used to flip screens between two paladins who'd juggle 3 total instances (a solo for the FWP, an open raid and a guild). And you'd need the paladin for the ranged zealous smite to combat them going under the world. And swapping screens that would feel like max efficiency, running out of live wisps just in time to instance jump/repop. In a court of law, I'd have no idea how to argue I was keeping up on 15 screens cuz with wisps chilling under the world 1/3rd of the time.... Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: balidet on March 10, 2016, 03:59:27 pm I think having bots /stick /attack on is not the same as having every toon do this...
but I am not the moral defender of EZ so whatever.. if every toon including the main the one shooting mobs in 15 diff instances at the same time how is this not the exact same thing and simply running a macro to auto farm sls? Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Chunka on March 10, 2016, 04:26:59 pm Having all boxes assist one main with a button push isnt botting. Having 15 instances open with 15 different characters all using a hotkey to target the mob (each one doing a diff one in a diff zone), sticking to that mob to kill it, then looting....yeah, thats not allowed.
Or did I misunderstand what you were saying? Quote 6 hours of at the computer. Bcaa stick wisp. Bcaa auto attack. Yeah, this is specifically prohibited. Cannot use stick to target a mob across the zone and autorun to it....unless Akk or Hate have reversed Hunter's rule on that. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: balidet on March 10, 2016, 04:56:33 pm the key is having one main toon control a bot army..
this is ok.. one key to target/auto attack is fine and stick but ONLY for the bots.. the main toon should not stick.... he or she can attack....but sticking is not allowed(or advisable) so having however many toons doing this for sls is like...bad man... Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Loyal on March 10, 2016, 06:33:51 pm Please destroy your 289 SLS, sit in the corner and think about what you have done!
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Waraesh on March 10, 2016, 09:42:35 pm daisy chaining would be something more of the lines of having a toon with an action and a timed command to send to another toon to press a button and loop back to original button. Thus creating an infinite loop. Also to toss in my 2cp, If there are 15 instances open and 15 toons using /tar wisp, /stick, /attack, etc. that is very much something I would imagine is frowned upon. It isn't a script that is running or anything, but you are not actively playing in EACH of the zones you have toons in. That seems like a bit of a rules infringement.
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Brannyn on March 11, 2016, 12:57:19 am I remember hate actually stating in OOC one night that using the /tar and then /stick to auto run your toons through a zone to a mob to go from mob to mob is not allowed.
Running up and pulling that mob THEN telling your toons to target and run over to it is allowed. If Hate comes in here and says what you were doing is fine then I know where i'll be next DBL =P Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Rent Due on March 11, 2016, 05:30:02 am yeah see, I called it. This thread is /yawn and way off topic now
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Loyal on March 11, 2016, 09:42:52 am yeah see, I called it. This thread is /yawn and way off topic now This thread is a living breathing thing....do not stunt its evolution! Anyone catch the debate last night? Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: balidet on March 11, 2016, 04:46:30 pm we need to elect trump as president and bernie as VP
let the world burn! Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Rent Due on March 12, 2016, 07:44:28 am yeah see, I called it. This thread is /yawn and way off topic now This thread is a living breathing thing....do not stunt its evolution! Anyone catch the debate last night? exactly......who remembers the OP topic here? (http://i843.photobucket.com/albums/zz355/zupp69/rent%20is%20due%20wonka.png) Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: aythena on March 12, 2016, 08:48:51 pm exactly......who remembers the OP topic here? (http://i843.photobucket.com/albums/zz355/zupp69/rent%20is%20due%20wonka.png) [/quote] Wasn't it salt about GSOA not dropping enough in higher tiers? Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: aythena on March 12, 2016, 09:00:47 pm To the people argueing about how 'easy it is to progression' now then before, I need to remind you of one OP as hell spell we had to progress through tiers with that other people dont have? Give you a hint, its a druid spell, that basically made you almost 100% invincible while farming content, which completely changes how 'easy' any progression is in the game. Far as people getting 15mil for a gsoa starting off in their EZ progression, that awesome, I am glad for them, not upset it about it in the least, yes it does mean that their are less people farming sls, guess what hate made mini's repeatable, and if you have enough characters you can farm your own sls just as easy enough, not to mention tier 9 also has gl and sls potential drops, there are several alternative SLS farms in the game already, far as GSOA being increased drop rate in higher tiers, It sounds to me personally like the lootable drop rate etc for GSOA is off and that is an issue that maybe hate could consider at least looking into for us when he isn't bogged down with 1000000 other things to work on lol.
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Dimur on March 13, 2016, 12:12:43 am Nice troll attempt to both of you, but drake didn't even come out til after T7 release and wasn't even used to it's full potential til T8/9, so it hardly applies to the people voicing their concerns since they were just fine doing content before drake was available.
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: warrior5 on March 13, 2016, 01:25:13 am Nice troll attempt to both of you, but drake didn't even come out til after T7 release and wasn't even used to it's full potential til T8/9, so it hardly applies to the people voicing their concerns since they were just fine doing content before drake was available. Bullshit, it doesn't matter when drake came out, people were still using it in earlier tiers. My brother went from pulling like half the zone + when we first got into t5 to nothing with new changes. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Raygan on March 13, 2016, 07:18:46 am If you needed drake for t5 then your skills are SERIOUSLY lacking.
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Waraesh on March 13, 2016, 07:30:38 am I would like to reiterate one last time before this thread is locked. The issue I have personally with GSoA's being 15m is that it trivializes content for noobs. Unless you are boxing 18 toons, it is really, REALLY hard to spend 15m before hitting t6 (assuming you are farming your own essences since no one ever sells those, because they have unlimited funds already). With 2 toons having on tier ninja strike augs in mainhand/offhand you can pretty much 6 box t5 with zero challenge. It would be interesting to me to see how high you could take a SoA and 2 NS augs using 15m, I always ignore firestrike augs since they were something I didn't bother with until I was in t10 (for my playstyle they were pointless). If you get some freetime and want to see the reason I don't like 15m GSoA's check out a sum of material costs for SoA + 2 NS augs.
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Leis on March 13, 2016, 07:52:01 am Bullshit, it doesn't matter when drake came out, people were still using it in earlier tiers. My brother went from pulling like half the zone + when we first got into t5 to nothing with new changes. Looks like someone didn't solo like they keep claiming they did, over and over and over again. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Dimur on March 13, 2016, 11:43:52 am It's odd how common it is for most of you to put words into people's mouth and make up crap And it's laughable how often you dismiss a point someone makes as irrelevant and use it as a crux to go off on some tangent backing whatever claim you decide to make of the intent of their point Nice troll attempt to both of you, but drake didn't even come out til after T7 release and wasn't even used to it's full potential til T8/9, so it hardly applies to the people voicing their concerns since they were just fine doing content before drake was available. Bullshit, it doesn't matter when drake came out, people were still using it in earlier tiers. My brother went from pulling like half the zone + when we first got into t5 to nothing with new changes. I quite directly said in my point that my statement was specific to people voicing their concerns in this thread, I neither claimed nor inferred that my point was absolute to everyone everywhere on EZ. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Kruciel on March 13, 2016, 12:16:32 pm (https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pxD_dvtoYcw/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: warrior5 on March 13, 2016, 12:58:45 pm Boring
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Dimur on March 13, 2016, 02:09:00 pm So you can find dictionary.com, good for you. Now take the definition and do your best to apply it appropriately.[quote
Nice troll attempt to both of you, but drake didn't even come out til after T7 release and wasn't even used to it's full potential til T8/9, so it hardly applies to the people voicing their concerns since they were just fine doing content before drake was available. There, I bolded the important part for you to make sure you know what the statement was specifically applied to. FYI, I am not the one who brought drake into this thread so point your finger elsewhere. You constantly generalize and infer there are people that do this or do that, but you seem to have a hard time citing sources when people ask for clarification. They just had on their rose-tinted glasses and ignored all the OP stuff that has existed over the years then tried to argue people starting out have EoA rank 50. I forgive them. Who, anywhere in this thread, stated that their concern with GSOA were being hoarded by Qvic geared toons working on EoA? Oh, that's right, they didn't. What are these obvious and multiple, as stated by you, OP things that have existed over the years that are being ignored? Well, I guess you don't know of any since you fail to back that claim with any sort of argument or opinion and simply state it as fact. You also went on to say regarding feedback on MGB buffing, that the people arguing for limiting it were the same people that were dispensing buffs in Nexus, when in fact none of the posters vocalizing their support for limiting buffs in this thread were/are guilty of doing so. When asked to clarify this again, you had to backpedal and restate your claim. You are pretty quick to charge other people with needing to back up their talking points with data or verifiable information but you fail to hold yourself to the same standard. And as far as trying to sound intelligent, I could give two shits if you find my posts remotely thought provoking. When you post thoughts that are fleshed out and leave the vague and unverifiable crap out, you don't need to hope that your link to dictionary.com makes someone think you're internet cool. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Dimur on March 13, 2016, 02:21:31 pm And before assuming that remotely means BECAUSE of the Earring, stop and actually consider what else it could possibly mean. Then, after you pass out from long dormant synapses in your brain actually firing to try to bridge the fortuitous gap in there between logic and emotion, come back to this thread and read the following statement.
People have claimed that people having access to GSOA stones, that can be used to make EoA or Mask or even sold off to someone who wants to pay a ridiculous sum for them, are trivializing low level content because of the ability to craft strike augs and mana necks with the money they got from farming those GSOA. Wow, that was so simple to conclude and I'm sorry you've had such a hard time connecting the dots, but I'm glad I could help you. You're welcome! Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Dimur on March 13, 2016, 02:37:53 pm No way, you posted another line of drivel devoid of substantiating any of the claims you made! That's so...well, you I guess.
You'll also note that this post has a few pages, I'd suggest going back through those pages of posts and do your best to illustrate your point with some direct quotes. You said yourself people literally said it so that would indicate no less than 2 instances from separate posters you can offer up, though more would definitely help substantiate the claims. I did my best earlier in the thread to clarify what the OP was trying to convey, he also acknowledged it and thanked me for the clarification. I don't recall anywhere in my clarification saying people having access to EoA at lower tiers is the problem, it was specific to GSoA. I also offered you 3 things that people use GSoA for, only one of which is the EoA. I'm confused and hope you can clarify your latest unsubstantiated claim, but since 9/10ths of what I post is incomprehensible maybe you can shine the light for me. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Blurring on March 13, 2016, 02:43:21 pm Hilarious watching Eliseus scramble to edit his posts, when for the first time someone shovels a tenth of the shit he spews back into his own mouth ;D
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Dimur on March 13, 2016, 02:51:46 pm There already was direct quotes, yet you keep claiming there wasn't. This is getting hilarious to say the least Well we know you're able to quote and post, so how about you humor us and post those direct quotes? Remember, at least 2 different posters, any more than that is just gravy. The burden of truth lies on the accuser. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Dimur on March 13, 2016, 03:07:13 pm Okay, so we've established you're full of shit because you just keep repeating the same tripe over and over. You are the one constantly referencing multiple statements but you can't bring yourself to actually back up the claim. It's pretty easy to prove yourself as being correct by offering up those quotes. Additionally, I love how you inferred that I was claiming to be a lawyer when I didn't even use the quote you associated with it, I used the word truth and that's all I was looking for. Keep arguing long enough and you'll get the last word in and not actually have to offer up anything, but you'll still be full of shit.
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Dimur on March 13, 2016, 03:15:29 pm It's nice that you can take time to quote dictionary.com, but you do realize this applies to your lack of substantiated claims? Spin doctoring doesn't give us the multiple quotes you refuse to offer up to back up your claims.
I always forget the need to break it down to the lowest common denominator in order for you to be able to process it, forgive me but I'll try to keep it simple. You claim multiple people and multiple quotes throughout this thread directly saying, not alluding to but directly claiming that shit is broken because people in Qvic have access to the EoA quest. Please offer up at least 2 of these quotes from at least 2 different people. Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Dimur on March 13, 2016, 03:16:15 pm Oh, and try to do it without running back to edit your posts after you've made them.
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Dimur on March 13, 2016, 03:24:00 pm Attack? My, if I've gotten your knickers in a bunch I certainly apologize. It was a simple request, but if it's too hard to do then forget I mentioned it. Now, about those quotes...I haven't seen them yet. Do they exist?
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Dimur on March 13, 2016, 03:28:58 pm The quotes?
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: warrior5 on March 13, 2016, 04:31:33 pm lol
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Eliseus on March 13, 2016, 06:27:44 pm Deleting my posts. I don't want to be any part of this ad hominem and sadly don't enjoy that people may of been offended by me sharing my opinion. I apologize and will cya guys in game!
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: warrior5 on March 14, 2016, 12:17:23 am Whaat
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Loyal on March 14, 2016, 12:01:23 pm This isn't fun anymore.....now it just feels like that time when Dad hit Mommy at the dinner table
Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Rent Due on March 15, 2016, 06:14:01 am I have placed a lock on this thread as it is unproductive and took a retard pill on like page 2 or 3
Thanks all for playing $$ Title: Re: UW and GSoA Post by: Brannyn on March 15, 2016, 07:50:15 pm does this mean we didn't pay the rent?
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