EZ Server

hey there folks,

Ive got a couple of ideas that might improve quality of life for new players trying to grab a toe hold on EZserver.

First off, is there a legitimate reason that spell research for only starts at t5 with inks dropping there and not in previous tiers? for the most part classes don't rely on spells as much as say necro's do, considering they have a specific quests that makes it mandatory to have all four of their dots before they can complete the death spell quest? I suggest inks starting to drop at lower tiers just to help out with this. in the long run I don't think this will effect any trivializing of the content as it just helps fill your spell roster.

Second off, it would be nice to see some sort of exchange merchant like in t1 for the lower to medium tiers probably only up through t4 as I have not reached higher than that. It becomes exceedingly frustrating to see drops that cant be used because you don't have x class and needing those 1-2 items to progress and it never drops.

I understand that no one wants to give out a free ride through progression and I completely agree. I want to earn what I get but having your advancement roadblocked by the RNG gods doesn't in my opinion add meaning in any useful way to the game. Even if it were a system of kill 1k x type of mobs in a quest like fashion or turn in x amount of tokens for a class token that your class can actually use would make significant improvements on the player side of things that feels like the work and grinding you have put in actually pays off.

As a new player, the frustration with drops takes it toil. With all of the other grinding you have to do, with strike augs, charms, shield of the ages, and the plethora of other grinds you can work through not even counting aa's for the ring of ages and mask of exp, having a complete RNG stop you from advancing due to not getting the drop you need is demoralizing to say the least.

Let me be clear, I am not asking for a hand out, or to trivialize the content. I am just asking for an alternate way to continue progressing without having a luck factor determining how far you can get. Personally I box 18 toons. Yes, it's my fault that I chose to do this. This in itself slows me down greatly and Im ok with that.  I just want my time invested to seem like it means something or the very least that i know I will progress without being road blocked by chance.

I am an old school gamer with the old school mentality of you get what you put forth, If you work for it, you should obtain it. I like the challenge, I don't want it easy, just to be on a more level playing field when it comes to what you can and can not do.

Anyways, feel free to blast away at these ideas, I am new and I will bow to the experience of those that have put more time and effort into the server to make it what it is. I am just coming from the point of view of a new player and seeing how things are up till the t4 level of things, If there are legitimate reasons for things being the way they are I would love to hear them. Regardless Ezserver is my home. We have a amazing player base with great people, and that alone makes it worth playing.

Thank you for your time.


-Vorthis

 

This has been brought up before....The early tiers are not that difficult and if that little bit of a grind is turning folks off then they are going to straight nut up or die come to t5 or later tiers. I have been accussed in the past that I am bad about "back in the day we had to walk uphill barefooted in the snow" mentality but this server doesn't come out with new content every 6 months...so just relax and enjoy the ride...I mean grind.

I agree with some sort of rot bot type thing for t2 and t4. Even if you have to turn in patterns for all other classed in your group. i.e pally would have to turn in clr, war, shd armors to get one for themselves. I agree, it is kind of frustrating to spend 35 hoh tokens to spawn the same boss over and over and over and never see the drop for your class. (I did this the other night trying to get 1 single drop from t4 and never got it in the end)

Don't get me wrong Orthanos, I don't mind grinding. What I do mind however is spending over 100 tokens in t4 to get a single item and never seeing it just because i didnt happen to get lucky. Like i Said, I dont want to trivialize the content, that is not my intent at all. You are also absolutely correct that the challenge of the lower tiers isnt difficult however relying solely on RNG mechanics doesnt bring challenge to the game it just adds frustration. Lets be honest, from t1-t4 has 0 challenge other than getting lucky with what drops you need. There isnt a significant difficulty or skill needed to acquire any of these things just need a good lucky streak and voila you are done. I want to get into the meat of the game I don't mind spending a week or two grinding out what I need as long as in the end I know i will get it. The problem comes up, when with my limited experience, I have spent two weeks grinding t4 tokens just to see the same patterns drop over and over and over again. The lack of advancement is where the frustration comes in. Again, I don't want anything just handed to me. However if you put in the time and effort, you shouldn't have to rely on luck.

At a point, everquest is all about luck. P99 is about luck and so is EZServer.

P99 has SUCH luck required, and crazy camps for some of the bottleneck items required for the unlucky classes' epic quests.

Just wait until you break into ToFS and try essence farming there (especially the masters)... You'll wish you could go back to the days of T4.

T5 is also very "luck" based in the way you describe.

In every instance (except ToFS), there are ways you can HONE in on your luck. Only fight the mobs that drop the TOKEN you need in HoH, then you can spawn THAT boss over and over and over.

There are 16 classes, so here are the odds to get a specific class on subsequent tokens... (for example if you're looking for BEASTLORD arms - the odds of having the boss drop that specific arm (T4) given the number of boss spawns)

Based on the bosses dropping TWO class specific armor pieces per loot (the way T4 is set up currently)

1 - 12%
2 - 23%
3 - 32%
4 - 40%
5 - 48%
6 - 54%
7 - 59%
8 - 64%
9 - 69%
10 - 72%
11 - 76%
12 - 79%
13 - 81%
14 - 83%
15 - 86%
16 - 87%
17 - 89%
18 - 90%
19 - 91%
20 - 92%
21 - 93%
22 - 94%
23 - 95%
24 - 95%
25 - 96%

Every 5 tokens, you get a 50% chance at the piece you want... every 25 tokens you have a 96% chance at the piece you want.

And with 50 tokens, there's a 99.94% chance (or 16 in 10,000) that you will get the piece you want.

BUT - that means that 1 in every 25th time, you're gonna have a string of BAD luck when it takes MORE than 25 tokens to get your piece. And one in every 625 attempts, it's gonna take you more than 50 tokens

BASED ON DROPPING ONLY 1 PER BOSS

1 - 6%
2 - 12%
3 - 18%
4 - 23%
5 - 28%
6 - 32%
7 - 36%
8 - 40%
9 - 44%
10 - 48%
11 - 51%
12 - 54%
13 - 57%
14 - 59%
15 - 62%
16 - 64%
17 - 67%
18 - 69%
19 - 71%
20 - 72%
21 - 74%
22 - 76%
23 - 77%
24 - 79%
25 - 80%
26 - 81%
27 - 82%
28 - 83%
29 - 85%
30 - 86%
31 - 86%
32 - 87%
33 - 88%
34 - 89%
35 - 90%
36 - 90%
37 - 91%
38 - 91%
39 - 92%
40 - 92%
41 - 93%
42 - 93%
43 - 94%
44 - 94%
45 - 95%
46 - 95%
47 - 95%
48 - 95%
49 - 96%
50 - 96%

Every 10 tokens, you get a 50% chance at the piece you want... every 50 tokens you have a 96% chance at the piece you want.

BUT - that means that 1 in every 25th time, you're gonna have a string of BAD luck when it takes MORE than 50 tokens to get your piece.

... (I could keep going if you want)

The point is the 50/50 point is at 5 or 6 tokens

Every 5 tokens you turn in, you have a ~50% chance at a specific class drop.

If you turn in 25 tokens, there is a 96% chance that you will get you BEASTLORD arms... or whatever class you were looking for

What I dont think you see is that this statement is what is wrong with the server.... no challenge... you are 100% correct that tier1-4 offer no challenge and its just kind of a time sync to get past it.....hell this is what 1-70 used to be....

We as a server in my opinion want to curb this...and sooner would be better than later.


what is going to happen when people get on the easy train 1-70 then t1-t4 and then run smack dab into the first hurdle of t5?  we are going to see posts about how unfair it is...they have to increase/fix/reduce the time spent in t5 because its so MUCH harder than t4 or t3... see...you need some bad rng....its ....to toughen you up for the fun that comes later...


so in my opinion no t1-4 should not be made faster....

not because I had to do it the hard way but because I got to do it the hard way and it prepared me for the later part of the game..

the point of this server is not to "beat" it... its to have fun playing the content...


thoughts?

A lot of the fun of EZServer is the bad rng runs... you won't think so at the time, but part of what hooks you.

If, for example, they had the T4 bosses drop from a rotation of ALWAYS Warrior, then Paladin, then Cleric, then Bard (cycling through all the classes), it would lose that addictive BURST that you get seeing the drop you wanted.

That's what makes herion EverQuest so fun... and maddening...

Darpey I love all the math and logic but I have had several runs of 100+ tokens with no drops so ..yea...bad rng...or whatever but the math just breaks sometimes.:)  I have also zoned into tofs and had a master essence in 5 mins...so...it cuts both ways:)

When you say 100+ tokens, do you mean you had 100 of a SPECIFIC token (e.g. split paw) and spawned 100+ bosses, all looking for a single class on a single token type?

There's a difference between that and having 100 tokens of EVERY type and winding up with one that you go through with one class missing, because you're talking about 7 different token types (making it 7x more likely than my example) AND you're not talking about a specific class you're talking about every class (making it 16x more likely). In this scenario, you would be 112x more likely (7*16) than my listed numbers for a "bad RNG" run

What I did was this:

1/16 = 0.0625 (the number of classes)

take the inverse of that = 0.9375 (the chance of getting a single drop to be what you want)

multiply it by itself for each drop

First token = 0.9375
Second token = 0.9375 * 0.9375 = 0.8789
Third token = 0.8789 * 0.9375 = 0.8240
Fourth token = 0.8240 * 0.9375 = 0.7725

Take the invest of THOSE and you get the odds of drop

First token = 0.9375 --> 0.0625 (or 6%)
Second token = 0.8789 --> 0.1211 (or 12%)
etc...

To calculate TWO drops from a single token, just take the percentage on #2 and call it #1, #4 becomes #2, #6 becomes #3, #8 becomes #4...

I think that's right - right?

Just want to point out that specific mobs no longer seem to drop specific tokens in HoH. Not sure when this changed or if its a bug, but any monster in there can drop H1N1 now, for example, or Split Paw, etc., which makes farming the token you actually need nearly impossible. Personally I did 4 full clears of HoH last night and saw one single H1N1 drop.

Ouchies - that sucks - :( that would indeed make farming much harder.

yes 100 splitpaw and Needing say cleric whatever and no cleric whatever when i was out of tokens..

From what I am reading... in HoH you should farm the specific tokens you need? To my understanding, in the past certain mobs would drop specific tokens (ie Avatar of Underwurld would drop H1N1 and the avatars to the right of them would drop splitpaw tokens, etc), and I would just go after the specific avatars for the tokens I needed but I thought that was changed to any type token will drop off any Avatar? That makes you do full clears of HoH in order to get any type of token to drop. Been out of the loop from time to time so I don't catch all the changes.

Mix

That's right Mix. As it currently stands, any Avatar drops any token, which is why getting the specific ones you need is fairly difficult. Its great for the early part of the grind when you need every single token, but absolute torture near the end of the grind, especially when H1N1 / The Warlord drop less loot than the other T3 / T4 bosses respectively.

Get to grinding then.. and make RNG yer biotch! *cracks whip*

Mix

Working on it lol! Just gotta get that last pesky chest :P

Try doing that while carrying Chunka on your back....  ;D

Mix

HOH was recently converted to script loot so I wouldnt be surprised if something was tweaked in the process. However, even before the change all mobs had a chance at dropping any tokens, certain mobs just had a higher chance to drop a specific token.

Chasing the dragon since 1999 (r) .

Ouchies - is this an unintended consequence of loot changes?

This being the case - I sympathize with the OP's plight.

It would suck to have to farm 8x as many mobs to get the token you want.

If it was unintended, could Hate / Akka find a way to re-specify NPC type-loots?

The way it apparently currently is seems like it would be a mind-numbing timesink.

I'm all for the timesinks setup like T5, where you AIM toward the specific mob you're looking for - but just killing mobs in HoH to get random tokens seems like a negative change over the original setup where you could kill mobs that primarily dropped ONLY the token you needed.

Seems analogous to making T5 just randomly spawn bosses, instead of all the tricks that you have to do to spawn each individual boss (on a smaller scale, of course)

Unless there was some reason for this change that I just don't see.

Yea, plus scripted or not, token drop rate is still terribly low. Or at least it has been for me since the change. A full clear of HoH last night netted me all of about 10 tokens. And I believe 4 of them came from Shadow.

In my case, I had 100 lightbring and 100 prince of darkness, out of the first stack not a single cleric piece dropped. on my next set of 100, not a single mage item dropped. add to the fact that tokens are complete random drop on which you get with lightbringer, prince of darkness and oceanlord seeming to be the most common drops and the fact that a low drop rate of tokens ( I had 4 times as many charms drop as I did tokens in 20 full clears). It makes it mind numbing for the grind with a single goal of just collecting tokens. Perhaps if each tier had multiple goals that you could work other that token/pages it might not be as bad.

Shit man, try doing that while carrying Rent on your junk...like Dimurwar does!

Heh this has been somewhat "cleared" as not particularly true. I had a few people get decided vocal about it. Spawning 400 Avatars, I earned ~4 tokens more per 400 avatars, three sets of 400, five runs of three sets. All said and done, it's the same or better.

---

On the SPECIFIC loot issue, that can potentially be addressed. I'll review the script tomorrow to see what I may be able to do to assist in that area.


-Hate

Lets all go back to the Combines!

That's why I also mentioned that was the case for me. My RNG for token drop has been horrendous.

Just to add my observation to the mix, after many clears and getting a total of nearly 70% less tokens than the non BP/Leg type on Splitpaw (legs) and a little over 50% less on H1N1 I started instance bouncing to just farm those areas (Skies for Splitpaw and Underworld for H1N1), and saw no improvement on drop rate for those 2 types. A guildie was handing me all his loots from another instance and the numbers were pretty similar, and some in GC mentioned they had the same issues. It seems completely random now.

Ok, it's actually a weird issue. All mobs have the SAME chance for any token, but there is a separate roll I overlooked that is the "token specific" drops we're referring to in this thread. I have just added this to the quest script. New instances should result in those missing "specifics".


-Hate

To OP's post, I was a firm believer in dead instances.  Places where you would hand in 40 warlord tokens and get 8 bard, 8 bst and 24 others that you didn't need.  I always made sure to turn in on a cycle.  When I was down to the that "last item", I would hand in tokens in my guild/raid and public instances.  For some reason this helped me with my RNG blues.  I saw this more frequently as I farmed ToFS later on (clearing 5+ instances per 10minutes makes for big piles of data).  There are some instances that are INSANELY good, and some that just seem to be a complete waste.
I realize this is Anti-Camp Radius 2016, since the %'s are set equally through all instances, but it helped me stay as close to sane as was possible :)

To OP:

EZ is filled with folks who forget how hard it is to progress the first time (cough Orthanos), completely without the knowledge or the uber support team or the UW(s) or the buffs or the uber guild to help them. You won't get much sympathy from most folks.

Personally I know it's still extremely hard to progress on EZ without a lot of help - especially in T5. In the past I've advocated for things like this because I believe the grind and bad RNG turns off a lot of folks. That said, just keep pressing, join a guild if you haven't already, and eventually you will progress. If you think early tiers are hard you will hate T5. Feel free to hit me up in game if you need anything.

To those folks who beat EZ and claim it's too easy now (the wealthy blind), I always say the same thing: drop your guild and friends, and start a crew of 6 or 12 truly from scratch on EZ. Don't gear them up or buff them. Don't bring your UW toons to help or any toons. Work the game up to T10 the way it's built for folks who are truly new. Then, while you progress, keep in mind it's still 10x harder for new folks who don't have your knowledge base and deep experience on the server. Since this will never happen, we will never know how hard the server is for first timers in any given month or year. Meanwhile, for the love of god, don't forget about all the perks we've had for YEARS which these newbies will never know, the same stuff we've called game breaking (generally not me) which has benefitted many of us tremendously.

Waraesh moved up quickly, but he had help like all of us, and for a while he played what seemed like every single day. I couldn't log on without seeing him on. Outliers are not the norm on EZ. The norm are folks who give up before or in T5. Even Waraesh admits it was hard to keep his sanity sometimes. Does that sound easy?  :-*

Good luck, have fun, don't stress and make sure you ask for help.

My guild is a great guild but doesn't help me progress...my progress is due to being a self motivated individual.  Maybe if you got on board with that mindset you would progress too....

the "uber support team" is something I built up on my own. If you havent noticed i have been playing since what 2009 or so...so it has taken a few YEARS to get to where I am....I don't play 24/7 because I have a JOB and a FAMILY so it can be done....just don't expect it to be something done overnight.

Also "no knowledge" holy crap you have got to be joking! There is a wiki and TONS of info on this server for people who WANT to learn about it...

Once again stop throwing sticks and spend your energy being productive...and try less to be a bitch.  mkay?

This guy can't make an argument without personal attacks. Not sure why anyone takes you seriously.

GT, just stop. I know you have issues with anyone wearing the FH tag, or anyone who doesnt agree with your views,,,,we get it. Get over it.

And the personal attack comment swings both ways.

The bottom line is the easier you make the game, the more time sinks you remove, the less time it takes to get to top tier. When you do that the tendency is to play less, or stop playing at all. This leads to less people playing who actively GIVE a shit about the server, and more of the "Well, P99 is down I'll make a ranger and go solo for a few minutes.....oh, look! EZ Server! I bet thats right up my alley!"

Granted some of those players end up sticking and falling in love with the place, but they are the exception, not the rule. The more player churn we have, the less the quality of the population....the worse the community. It makes for a poorer server than it could be. Hunter knew this, and knew that balancing between this and the other end of the spectrum wasnt easy. Akk and Hate do too....and like Hunter they also make mistakes. Part of the "job" of the playerbase is to give feedback, and that feedback wont always agree.

Again....get over it. And the personal attack comment swings both ways.

Not gonna get into a debate on this, and I don't have an issue with anyone in FH except Raygan.

There's a difference between saying you disagree with someone and calling someone a bitch.

I have nothing against you or anyone else in FH having Raygan's back. I still won't pretend I don't disagree with him - and I'm just tired of his rants against newer players. It gets old. Creates a bad culture.

I have not had a negative word against new players. I have an issue with dumbing down the server to make it easier. I do though, have a problem with you, constantly bringing my name into the mix to stir up your soap opera like drama....so if I call you a bit ch and you don't like it then stop acting like one.

(http://i.imgur.com/4odiRsK.jpg?1)

The "new players have it too easy" flame has been going on since I was a Noobie (and I'm sure before then).

And... believe it or not, the level of FLAMING between players in forums has dramatically decreased over the past year or two (which is a good thing) (RIP Maslow)

Look I am white privileged

I'm gonna change my siggy to Orthanos' most hateful hater cuz he's the worst.

edit: added  ;D

 ;D

Offended and annoyed are two different things  :P

You do realize Orthanos is the first person in Focus Hope be in full T10 without the support of the guild... just sayin

Never said anything about him in T10. Was talking about bringing up new toons.

Why would i do that? I did it when server was MUCH harder than it is now.  When all the info wasn't at a mouse click away.  Back when there wasn't the available over powered buffs that there are now. The point is it all depends on a person's drive as to how far they are willing to go. Once again, my point, no need to dumb down the server to make people stay.

I  didn't mean to start a fight with my original post. It was just my experience as a new player and what I perceive as flaws in the game mechanics for progression. Arbitrary time sinks just for the sake of being arbitrary doesn't add anything to the game, in fact it will indeed turn new players off. Even if you added a merchant that sells the gear, and put points. tokens whatever on the mobs through the tiers where at least you "feel" like your time invested payed off would make a huge difference. at least you could SEE that you were progressing instead of it just being random luck to get the drops you needed. I dont want to burn through a tier in a day. Yet again this was never my intent for the original point. but if you have to farm 1k mobs per piece of gear at least you could look at it and say, alright ive got 500 x things so far, just another 500 to get that item. and it would make sense. the same way that the UW, UC, Shield of Ages and tons of other items are set up. same way as collecting AA to upgrade your Ring of the Ages. Im just saying that relying on luck is not good game design. nor is adding in time sinks that everyone shares along the investment. I know everyone brings up t5 as a "well if you are having troubles previous to this, then you will quit when you hit t5."
My response is no, at least in t5 I have a Shining goal that I can track my progress with the 100 bosses needed to be killed, regardless of how long it takes. not a cross my fingers and pray like hell that my item drops from x mob.

Also, as to the point of dedication to the game and putting time in. I have played every single day for the past two months. 18, Fighter/caster guild flags, 18 level 50 charms, 4 UC's, Fully geared 18 up to t4, multiple shield of ages, 3.0's on all 18 characters and trying to finish up my complete t4 so i can move into t5. It's not lack of dedication or willingness to put in the time and effort into the game. My issue stems solely on using Luck and RNG to progress.

The thing about losing players, what is the benefit of getting more players to stick around? for all intents and purposes this is a solo player game with box armies, there is no need to rely on others except for higher end players to not have to farm as much by buying items from lower players and in return helping those younger players with the massive plat sink that they have from the get go.

I truly don't want EZ to be easy. I love challenge, I crave it. I do not want to be one of those entitled players who think I deserve something just for logging in. Regardless, even if it doesnt change, I will still be here, chugging along because I do enjoy this server and the poeple on it. and in the end, as long as I am having fun that is all that matters.

Despite what you think my post wasn't about you. Was about all of us. I just brought up your name because you QQ more than anyone.

This has been beat to death, and I'm tired of the straw man arguments - enjoy the game. Try to not hurl personal attacks when you get called out in the future - it will happen again, I promise.

(http://i.imgur.com/VTVjhEE.png)

No one provokes more than Orthanos on these boards.  ::)

On that note, we get it, you have a lot of people in your guild. You don't have to send the troops every single time someone (mainly Orthanos) gets butt hurt on the boards guys.

Your signature is literally 2 references to Orthanos...

The human need to retaliate is most of the reason why our world has the bad things. Just let it go. Someone calls you entitled, just swallow it and don't worry.

Is anyone not in FH? Come on lol.

It's in my siggy now because it's a reference to his siggy. It's staying also.

(http://i.imgur.com/DaADWeM.png)

har  :D

Godtank is just still mad because someone dropped a house on his sister, Eliseus.

We have nothing in common but good one?  ???

And again, personal pissing match started. Locking thread. :-\


-Hate