EZ Server

They are a permanent pet class...

SK tanking is superior to Pal when flying solo. However SK's really add nothing to a group setting like Pal's do.

The idea is to add SK's to the pet class ring (because they do have pets) to add that DPS, to make them not so mediocre, and have some usefulness.

Kind of makes sense to me. Pal's always went the healing/beneficial route and SK get harm touch/more offensive abilities so a better pet for DPS just kind of fits.

What do you all think?

I'd rather see us become more balanced through other class defining avenues; make HT useful [severely decreased reuse time, better epic clicky and possibly slightly better DOT damage], than just adding some pet damage.

Actually its a good idea.
Since the pally was recently revamped this seems like an interesting improvement to at least balance to the paladin.

I would like to see Sks become more dps oriented tanks, either through spells or increased melee damage via better epics

the clicky isn't all that helpful since it is resisted half the time
dots on this server are just not viable forms of dps due to them ticking every 6 seconds and the puny dmg it does in the overall scheme of things

as of right now there is no reason to make a SK over a paladin or warrior

both classes outdps sks, can tank like a SK, and provide utility to the group.

Actually, this maybe a good idea pre-t2/3 but no way would it balance the SK to the pally usefullness beyond t2, not because its not a bad idea, just because of the limitations of the CG pet.

or make the sk epic clicky a group buff lifetap or something

Now that's a cool concept.  Just make it 50% Life Tap to balance out the fact that it's also doing damage and the SK would rise to its former glory!!

Stix

and i think to avoid sks from becoming a buff bot, they should raise the sk epic damage ratio slightly as well to be more in line with paladin epic

Right direction, but I dont see how a clicky group lifetap, which would most likely be on a 2-3min timer brings SKs on par with a Pally which is basically group healing every time they swing.  

Just make the idea a focus effect of the epic itself;  all SK taps (whether through the epic, shroud or spell cast) self heal for full but also heal the group for 50%.  THEN make the clicky effect enchance this effect by 100%, for 15 seconds and throw it on a 5min recast timer.

maybe have it proc the group buff that adds something like life tap hits or along the lines isntead of clicky? sk's are the best tanks for t3+ hands down, and thats with a 3.0

I think go a different route....make SK about group protection rather than heals. Along with the  weilder lifetap the proc gives the SK's group....I dont know, a damage absorbtion/mitigation, or a massive armor class pump.

What would be interesting is making the SK a 2H viable tank. That way we got SnB, Dual wield, and 2H. Same mitigation as the rest of the tank, just WAY higher avoidance and possibly better resists.

A lot of good ideas in this thread that I like.

Type 8 aug for 2hs that has the effect of Ancient bite of Muram? Or a higher version but same type of proc.. like 2k would suffice. 

(heals mana/hp with proc).

Actually, the answers to ALL the dps classes concerns is quite simple. Just make augs that are in line with damage that warriors have. I don't know excactly what said augment would be, but comparable to the Anger IV without the hate component. Not only would this buff SK's, but rogues, zerkers, monks, etc.


Just my 2 cents.

-Tankasaurus

Also HT needs to be looked into as well

It's a small aspect that gets overlooked.

Definitely needs to be scaled up.

HT definitely needs a revamp.  It's pretty useless in its current state.  Whether the dam is scaled or not, the timer needs to be turned WAY down and possible put Life Leech on its own timer, but keep the same dam/heal it currently does.

I'm definitely in support of this. There isn't any reason to roll a Sk over Pally / Warr. Simply looking at the Paladin 1.0 vs Shadowknight 1.0 can sum up the inferiority of Sks.


For sure. SK is a blend of the mitigation of a warrior and DPS of a necro, at least in theory. Our 3.0 already does more damage on procs, but Sks are still severely stunted compared to their tank counterparts. More utility is exactly what Sks need.

The 3.0 clicky is only useful for farming trains of no more than ten mobs. The effect loses its importance in T1. Either having an optional agro clicky, like a hate tap, or a group tap would make sense.

 
Another point. I'm tired of HT hitting for 3k to 6k at best with Unholy Aura disc. The damage is negligible next to two crits is negligible and the recast is something close to 30 minutes even with full AAs.

Ideally, I'd like to see some sort of group-wide click on the Sk Epic, like tapping AC, ATK, or a 2k HP buff from a mob, or a simple aoe hate DD click with a recast time of a minute.


The idea of promoting the Sk as the 'DPS Tank' by providing an incentive for 2hd use is also interesting. I've heard proc rates are more common on 2hd swings. Still, the benefit would need to be substantial to eliminate the utility of the board.

Great ideas all around. Hunter, you should get on this ;)

The idea that sk should basically replace warriors by becoming a "dps supertank" is just dreaming. That would be a be all end all class and thus server breaking. I seriously doubt any successful server would ever create a 'superclass' like that.

As much as I love my SK to death, and wish it could dish out more DPS as it's an absolute beast at tanking, I do feel like it just isn't the answer, and rather, we need some group utility of a clicky. Thinking to live abilities, SK's were very nice to have for that AC boost they could offer from the AC stealing spells, so maybe something along those lines? An unresistable, major AC and or ATK booster, although I remember reading someone saying that the reason AC didn't scale very high on this server is because Hunter said there was a AC point where you became godlike, but again just what I recall hearing.

Although it would make SK's even better tanks, what about a group rune? I dunno, it's really to think of something without overpowering the SK, or giving them a group utility that would make another class too powerful (with the AC or something)

Personally I am content with my SK... He may not have the mitigation to survive the biggest of hits, but if he can take the hits, he's oh so sexy.

i dont think anyone is saying they want sks to be dpsing supertanks, i think most of us are asking that sks dps at least be on par with paladins (which isnt even that great) and add utility to groups.

warriors arent going anywhere in the future as they're the closest thing to a superclass on this server anyway. SO asking for SKs buffs (and other class buffs) to close the gap isn't that big of a deal imo.

I don't want major DPS on my SK, but I would like things to work, make sense and make him more desireable as a tank.  Give the epics a clicky, all of them, that makes sense.

Having a group tap is too much like the Pallies epic, we didn't make pallies for a reason!  We dont need AOE aggro b/c Gaze does an exceptional job with basically no cooldown and we have Voice/Terror for added hate.  We dont need an AOE DD since that would just fall under AOE aggro since the damage would most likely be anemic.  Between the passive tap on the epic, shroud tap and spells, adding another one is just overkill.

Keep it class defining....wrap our 3 torrent spells into one clicky : Torrent of Hate, Pain and Fatigue, maybe lessen the effects on group mates for having it on the convenience of a clicky, but hits the SK for full effect.

HT was a class defining ability at release but the timer...90min to 54min with AAs and mine is only hitting for 7k max.  Useless and doesn't make much sense, never did. 

We don't want to be OPed DPS supertanks, we'll leave that to the warriors....but the gap is way too big between the two.   We want group viability, not asking too much.

A short duration (6 minutes) proc buff that lands and all friendlies in the same group. The buff would would give all friendlies a life tap proc. It would make sk's a really good addition to a group if the tap was large enough and fits with the idea behind sk's. The tap would be single target, would be larger on the SK and would have no hate component with it.

-An all in 1 torrent would be pretty snazzy...I don't know how the coding would go for that tho...I don't think one spells can do THAT many things
-A group tap would be cool...whether it's through buff or through the proc is the part we should determine...imo it should be a more potent bite of muram...the mana heal would help a lot once you get t3 spells.
-Up SKs dps slight via better epic dmg ratio. I don't think this is asking for a lot. Sword and board or 2handers will never outdps dual wield classes anyway so giving SKs a little more damage wouldnt be a game breaking thing at all.
-HT definitely needs to be scaled up....waaaay up for a 1 hour cooldown.

just give it the live proc, which is what people are asking for ....

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=6268

It is an important tool for sk's

This is what we use to have, and while it was nice, I think we should move away from more group healing... Pallies already do that, and I'm pretty sure it would be easier to stick a pally on a mob and heal everyone than click this spell every 3-5mins for a 30second boost.

Give Shadowknights Marrowthrist horror. The End.

More leeching? Seriously?

I think hunter has said he was not upping the taps. They already have the highest heal in the game.

is that why their 4.0 epic sucks so bad?

I was speaking about the tap on the 3.0

So I did some parsing for a SK 3.0 vs a Pally 3.0 Same gear / Charm etc (2hs)

Paladin:
Volgar -vs- Practice Dummy: -- DMG: 903483 -- DPS: 3749 -- Scaled: 3749 -- Slash: 491830 -- Hit: 405525 -- Bash: 6128 -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 700 -- Hits: 584 -- Missed: 43 -- Defended: 73 -- Accuracy: 93.1% -- Avg Hit: 1547 -- Max hit: 8000 -- DMG to PC: 223

Practice Dummy on 9/20/2010 in 241sec

Total
 --- DMG: 903483 (100%) @ 3749 dps (3749 sdps)
 --- DMG to PC: 223 @1dps

ShadowKnight:
Expletus -vs- Practice Dummy: -- DMG: 754480 -- DPS: 3131 -- Scaled: 3131 -- Hit: 423294 -- Slash: 327099 -- Bash: 4087 -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 552 -- Hits: 478 -- Missed: 22 -- Defended: 52 -- Accuracy: 95.6% -- Avg Hit: 1578 -- Max hit: 12000 -- DMG to PC: 255

Practice Dummy on 9/20/2010 in 241sec

Expletus
 --- DMG: 754480 (100%) @ 3131 dps (3131 sdps)
 --- DMG to PC: 255 @1dps

*edit* Pally doesn't have T2 bp/arms**

**edit** SK casted 3.0 and full line of spells - Pally was straight melee**

well the 4.0 has the exact same tap as 3.0....which supports your statement that hunter isnt going to up the sk taps

so even their 4.0 blows balls