New questions...

1. What is an augment?


2. Where do they come from?


3. If you remove it from a charm, do you get it back, ie can you use it on another charm?

www.google.com will answer many questions regarding things that also exist on Live.

But, I'm bored at work, so here ya go.

http://www.eqtraders.com/articles/article_page.php?article=g287&menustr=030000000000

I know way back in the day on Live, if you zoned into Velks with two forms of levitate, it would only erase one of them.   I dont know if this method still exists today.

I agree, the rule is stated very clearly.  There is no ninja looting.  But people are still interpreting this the way they wish or ignoring this as you wish to phrase it.  This is obvious as to the amount of publicity this topic has received.

I just think going around with the ban stick is an extreme solution.  If a puppy pees in the house, you shouldn't beat it.  You tell him/her, "NO", and you take it outside and show it where to pee.  Then give it praise when it does the right thing.

There seems like there should be easier solutions with less headache for both the players involved (on both sides) and Hunter.

I have enjoyed debating this topic with you guys, I like to discuss problems and potential solutions.  But I have spent far too long of my work day on this, so I am going to fade back into the EZserver shadows and let everybody play as they choose. 

Why do you keep arguing that someone's ability to do something makes the rule ambigious?

ambiguous [æmˈbɪgjʊəs]
adj
1. having more than one possible interpretation or meaning
2. difficult to understand or classify; obscure
[from Latin ambiguus going here and there, uncertain, from ambigere to go around, from ambi- + agere to lead, act]

I am arguing that people are having a difficult time understanding the rule(2), and that the rule is being interpreted differently by different people(1).

Heck, Lodar interpreted the rule in two different ways within one month.

Some people are saying that it is okay to do it in Dulak, but not higher content.

These are ambiguous arguments.

Why do you keep arguing that because the rule is clear to you, it is clear to everyone who plays on EZ?

[No ninja looting]

Sorry, just going back and reading some of the earlier posts in this thread.  This guy is undoubtedly one of my favorites:

In Dulak for instance... I looted everything that was on the ground unless people were there.

If noone is there... hell ill loot if i need. Nobody is there anyways so its "abandonned" i guess

Maybe I wasnt supposed to but you know what, if no one is there, too bad.  If someone complains... how the hell can he prove to me he did the kill in the first place anyways?

No one = I loot

how many times i ran into corpses in LDON to find Credits on them lol... hell I am alone and its rotting... guess what.. its now mine!
Plain and simple 

But then he says...

Official rules...

• No exploiting
• No warping
• No bot / afk farming
• No bad words
• No spamming
• No kill stealing
• No hording Tiki's
• No ninja looting
• No trains
• Do not crash zones
• Do not share accounts
• Use common sense
• Play nice and don't grief

The description...

NO NINJA LOOTING
Don't loot mobs that don't belong to you unless the person/group that killed it gave you permission.

I think its clear enough and doesnt require any debate!

This makes me chuckle.  Crystal clear Lodar, crystal...but only when it is convenient.

You guys that think this rule is crystal clear are wrong, Im sorry.  It might be crystal clear to you Crab and Thyl, but to a majority of players there is a pretty large grey area of ambiguity.

And if we are using the no leniency policy of if you didn't kill it, and didn't get permission to loot it, then that is ninja looting, I vote to ban Rob.

Well after A LOT of time in Dulak finding the same 3 monk pieces, I finally picked up a bp, arms and feet from those abandoned corpses.

I was stunned and happy at the same time.

J/k Rob, I really don't want to ban you bud, was just using this as an example.  But what if someone would have come back from an LD and sent you a tell saying, "WTF".  Im sure you would have felt bad, apologized and tried to come to a solution like a reasonable person.

But what if that person you were dealing with wasn't being sensible?  What if he took screenshots/fraps of the incident and got you banned?  Would that be just?

Also you are then kind of moving towards an online single player game.

As long as the content is difficult enough to require more than a single person, I don't know how this is leaning towards a single player game.  Raid content will still require a raid to complete regardless of whether its instanced or not.  It will just alleviate some of the drama involved with ninjaing, campstealing, leap frogging, training, etc.  World of Warcraft is the largest MMO in existence, and almost every viable zone worth salt is instanced.  If instances were not a good thing to have I doubt MMOs would have begun using them, and that includes Everquest.  Some of my fondest memories of EQ includes completing MPG trials and DoDH missions with friends.  None of that content was soloable or considered single player.

I liked the idea of putting the name of the person who killed the mob on the corpse timer, if that is even possible.  It would help with people contacting that individual to see if they can get permission to loot.

Yes that is no doubt the 2nd best solution offered thus far.  Instances are by far obviously the best way to eliminate the problem.  I don't know the difficulty either would require to make happen, as I know zero about running a server or customizing the game code.

If people are quickly banned for ninja looting no matter what zone my guess is the problem will go away in all zones like Time/Ldon/Qvic etc accomplishing and end to complaining basically. It's only an issue when people think they can get away with it is all.

I agree, it will quickly eradicate the problem, and I understand your position on how it is the rule and if you break it you should be punished to the upmost extent of the law.  However, for many issues that are a common misunderstanding, I just don't believe going directly to the boss man and getting someone banned is a good thing for anybody.  If you start banning anyone who breaks any rule then you will be left with a desolate server, and nobody wants that.  Its pretty hard to recruit when there are 30 people left on a server.

We are all adults here.  According to the Age Poll on the forums we only have 1 teen.  We should act like adults and try to work trivial issues out and I bet a lot of the issues could be solved.

Trying to argue the stated rules are unclear = foolish. They were crystal clear.

Obviously.

Look man, I'm not the one complaining about the constant problem, you are.  Einstein's definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.  You are insane if you think that anything is going to change by complaining on the forums.  The same forums that the ninjas don't read in the first place.  As a new player, and with friends who are also new players, Im telling you this from a new player's prospective.  As an MMO veteran, I always look to forums as a resource guide for information and solutions, but many players do not.  If you fail to accept this fact then I'm not sure what else to tell you bud.

The corpses you are currently seeing after a week of playing are minimal effort bosses to get to spawn since most of them are times and maybe they only do take 15 minutes to respawn but as you get higher in the game you maybe see a particular mob once a week randomly in raiding, sometimes less. And when that mob does spawn it has 1/4 or 1/16 chance of dropping what you need, it's not funny when that corpse gets looted before the alt you've been camping to get it for for a week gets stolen.

Once again, let me reiterate, instances such as this are unacceptable and inexcusable, as I have said at least 3 times already.  But as for all the complaining I have seen about mobs in Time, LDoN and Qvic, it is my opinion that there are better ways to handle the issue.

I understand the rules Crab, you are extremely hard headed and frustrating to deal with.  Just because I am new, should not mean that my opinions should be ignored.  Else you will wind up like Test Server (the server I have played on since 2000) and have a maximum of 50 players online at all times, just the old school clique.  While that may have its advantages for people like you that are in that clique, its not a positive thing for a healthy server.

Im done arguing with you about the rules.  I am simply stating that there is a problem, and you can either sit on here and complain about it, or offer up some solutions, other than just to ban all the bastards.  Others have offered some solutions, while you have brought nothing positive to the conversation.

And I honestly don't really care if you or any other old schoolers will hold a grudge on me because I have stated my opinion on a matter.  I play this game to have fun with a select group of my real life friends.  Regardless, if you do hold a grudge on me for stating my opinions, you're probably not the type of person I want to spend my free time playing a game with anyways.

Imagine if you have been trying to get a specific item, such as plate legs for one of your toons, and you have put in several hours of playing before it drops only to have some one walk up and take it.

I couldn't agree more Thyl, I have said from the beginning that blatant ninja looting is unacceptable and inexcusable.  What I am arguing is that some of the complaining is nothing more than a misunderstanding, and the majority of the time can be worked out in other ways than immediate overreaction and flaming.

All I am saying is that if I was camping say, pages 1-5 for my 2.0 like I was last night in LDoN, and I LD right as I kill the mob.  I come back and the page is gone, yes I might be frustrated, but I know that in 15 minutes the mob will be back up and I can get my page again.

Certain situations are a major issue and should be dealt with accordingly, but I feel like some are a vast overreaction and can be handled far more maturely.  But that is my opinion, and it is obviously not shared by Hunter, as he has now made it clear what the rules are.

Though I chuckle at attempts by others saying in all caps, IT IS CLEARLY STATED, and then they will say things like:

The only time you should EVER loot a corpse that you didn't kill is if:
C. There is NOBODY around and you wait a decent amount of time to ensure they aren't coming back (if you know who killed it ask directly to shorten the time)

Well a 'decent' amount of time is a very ambiguous, and left up to interpretation.  Discrepancies such as this do not help make the rules clear.

Obviously the rule is not so clear to a lot of people, because not every player on EZ reads the forums.  I know that me and my 7 or 8 real life friends just started playing over here, and some of them had no idea that these forums even existed.  Instead of crying about the injustices done to you, lets think of a solution to solve the problem.  I suggested a longer corpse timer more in lines of Live, but that was apparently shot down assuming I had no idea what the corpse timer was like on Live.  I do know the corpse timer opens up to the general public on Live as well, but after a longer period of time than 2.5 minutes.  Which would alleviate some of these issues; people would have time to get their alts over, if they LD'd they would have a chance to get back in the game, etc.  What about a text box that pops up when you log into the game that states the rules.  People can read and refer to them in-game, and afterwards just click the X and it goes away.

Lets try and direct this conversation away from being reactive and pointing fingers, to something more proactive.  How can this issue be solved?  If you say something along the lines of, the rules are clearly stated, then you're wrong.  The rules are on a forum outside of the game, in which many people do not frequent.  Im sure I will offend some oldschoolers, but maybe we can figure out a way to alleviate some issues if we come up with some good ideas.

Dude lrn2EQ before you bitch.

This isn't a fucking free-for-all.

Take it down a notch, you guys are attacking me like I have done something wrong.  After all curse words are against the rules.  All I have done is played the Devil's Advocate to your opinion and obviously upset you, but that was not my intention.

I just started on this server a week ago and have worked hard to gear up and progress.  I have not had any issues with anybody in game, and I have enjoyed my time over here thus far.

Just because I don't agree with one certain issue does not mean I have mal-intent.  I disagree with a number of political issues in America, but I consider myself a respected law abiding citizen.

But ban me for disagreeing with you if that is your wish, because you have nothing else on me than a difference of opinion.  Im sorry to have ruffled your feathers, but this is a public forum in which people state their opinions on matters.  I have said all along that I am not saying you guys are wrong nor am I saying that I am right, Im just saying what I feel, and if that is punishable, then ban away.

I concede.

I guess I just don't understand why the corpse timer is like this if people have to ask permission to loot rotting trash mobs.  But you're the boss.

Thats your opinion man, Im not saying you're wrong or that I am right.  I am just saying that these rules are not as clear as you think they are, and as long as people play with respect for others, I dont think everybody should be overreacting like this, "OMG I DESTROY ALL THE LOOT I DONT WANT B/C I H8 NINJAS!!"

The key is to just play with respect, and if a mistake does happen and someone's loot does get taken, just work it out like mature adults.  If someone got LD'd and I accidently ninja'd their loot and they came back in and said wtf, I would undoubtedly apologize and offer my assistance to help them kill the mob again.