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Author Topic: Class balancing!  (Read 14084 times)
walk2k
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« on: January 03, 2011, 02:31:02 pm »

Always a fun topic right?  Roll Eyes  I know, so try not to turn this into a "nerf this" or "soandso is overpowered!!" rant and flame fest...

Anyway, been hearing some talk about changes that might happen so wanted to get some hints from thems that know (Hunter?) and provide some of my feedback..

First off, my group is currently paladin ranger druid.  All are 3.0 with level 20-30 charms, T1/T2 gear and MossyVs on weapons (none of those Million-pp augs *cough*).  Seems to me the paladin's damage output is far ahead of the ranger which seems completely backwards to me, especially given the uber-healing of the paladin.  The druid... well she's just there to soak up leather drops, though the regen is decent I guess.  Her Dots and nukes are a complete joke at this level (I calculate about 1k dps... paladin does closer to 20k... ranger probably 3/4 to 1/2 that..)

I've never seen T3+ so can't comment on that.

T1 bosses are pretty trivial for me, but take a while to kill.. basically the paladin on /autoattack and /afk and wait for the win.

T2 bosses take FORFREAKINEVER to kill, especially when the adds spawn minis and let's not even talk about the Kronos fight... (truly sleep-inducing).  It's not the tanking or the healing, again paladin on /afk auto attack will almost never die... just not enough firepower from the ranger/druid - and yes believe it or not I do tab over to the druid and drop dots/rains .. why I don't know.. probably just bored! Wink

Thoughts:
Everyone thinks the Pal is overpowered, and I think I agree at least from the damage standpoint.  IMO if you cut the Pal epic's damage proc in half but kept the healing the same I think you'd be on the right track.  People would still want a paladin in group (or 2) but would consider using real "DPS" classes for DPS instead of just the current no-brainer "welp, throw in another Pal"...

In fact I seem to remember it wasn't that long ago around here people DID use rangers, monks, even rogues for DPS....  and then everything changed when we started relying on procs to do most of our damage..

Of course you'd need to seriously beef up the melee DPS classes.  Please, withOUT relying on mega-expensive augs.  Honestly I feel relying so heavily on proc damage for DPS is going down the wrong road.  I know that's an easy route since making changes to melee damage, or mob AC, is a very complicated process...  but at least for the love of gosh if that's the solution, put them on the ranger/monk/etc epics directly... or at least give us dropped/inexensive augs (like Angers) for ALL classes.

So the druid then... how about some Dots and nukes for caster classes that drop in T1 and below?  Because right now all these classes are basically buffbots - at best.  The pet classes have seen pets beefed up a little, but pets are hard to use.  Wizards got a T3 spell, but how about some sub-T3 love, and some love (DPS love) for other casters?  Ideas - Dots for druid, necro, etc that do decent DPS, start dropping in QVIC and get more powerful from there on.  Shamans - how about a slow or mob weaken that actually works?  Enchanters got a nice magic buff, and I know charm and mez is probably not making a comeback, but how about a nice line of Runes, starting in Qvic that absorb say 2-3k damage, ramping up to T3+ at 50k-100k (or more)? 

Anyway this is getting long... these are just ideas, I know Hunter/etc is real busy and all this stuff takes time, not looking for overnight massive sweeping changes that fix everything... just some IMO thoughts and ideas... what do you think?
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walk2k
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« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2011, 02:39:41 pm »

Oh I should also say at this point YES I realize I'm only using 3 chars (and 1 "good" one... :p) I don't expect to blow thru high level content with only 3 (1 good...) I don't, I group up every chance I get.

and I know, I need a warrior ... Tongue

But if was considering adding more to my group (or ie replace the drubuffbot with something else for more dps) I wouldn't want it to just be.. another paladin... would want to try a monk, or even a rogue... but at this point I don't see the use (and YES I know I need a warrior!!)
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lerxst2112
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« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2011, 03:26:02 pm »


You should probably parse a bit before you throw around dps numbers.  My pally has similar gear to yours with one of those expensive augs and does around 12k with ancient vampiric thunder to boost the non-aug dd proc on the sword.
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walk2k
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« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2011, 05:56:40 pm »

Would love to see parses. I just based on FG dummy, it has 100k regen (16.6k/sec) pally can just beat that and reduce his hps (slowly though) so figure 18-20k
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Balthor2
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« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2011, 06:05:28 pm »

its regen is broken,
want a good parse target go to 2.0 zone
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Xiggie | Stone
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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2011, 07:23:19 pm »

I don't think lowering pally dps or warrior dps is the answer. I think the answer lies moreso in beefing the rest of the classes to be on par with them.
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Fugitive
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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2011, 08:01:24 pm »

... WTF ... have you guys even fought a T3 or T4 or MCP yet and asking to reduce this or reduce that...


Those guys have retarded hps...

I remember my 1st fight with 6 war pal pal rng mk cleric 50 mins or so..

Get Augged up..

get your 3.5s when you can..

The game is fun past T2... if you can handle the RNG...!! and I dont mean rangers...



btw, if you are still living in the days of glorified live in your heads.. please stop this is a custom server with custom content..

Ya I agree I would like to see all classes somewhat playable...

and they are...

you dont have to have the copy grp of who ever to play..

pick your classes have fun..


Im in no way picking or punching... just sayin...

you really need to dump the druid .. they are worthless period... dots suck DDs suck regen is cool... single point heal high charm is okay... but meh...

get some dps..

sk zerk ranger monk sk pally war (pet class 3.5)

« Last Edit: January 03, 2011, 08:06:43 pm by Fugitive » Logged


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walk2k
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« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2011, 08:45:33 pm »

No I don't think he should reduce anything... like I said I think T2 boss has too many HPs... lol.
I said he *could* reduce the dmg part of the Pally proc and it would STILL be uber, like omfg have-to have a paladin in your group (or 2) uber... 

I'd really like to see the DPS classes beefed up, is what..

SK zerker monk ranger... you really think that's a good group right now?  Honestly??  Yes I know, pick what you like and play it, that's why I have a ranger and a pally as main tank and no warrior :p

I'll do some parses tonight.. what's a good program for that?
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funkinmofo
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« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2011, 08:49:49 pm »


I'll do some parses tonight.. what's a good program for that?

Game Parse
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TheBloodmoon
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« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2011, 08:50:56 pm »

Gamparse for parsing.

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Collector
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« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2011, 08:51:28 pm »

Honestly.... Zerker blows my nutz. Mine anywyas... keep in mind i had no UC.. only sorc lvl 1 on him but 2 FS IVs.. and my pal could keep up w/ himk dps.. oracle vlvl 1 nuff said

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Brianlb
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« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2011, 09:46:15 pm »

No I don't think he should reduce anything... like I said I think T2 boss has too many HPs... lol.

If you think T2 has to many hp, wait until you get into PoG. With the setup you have now you will probably never kill boss. Not necessarily because you'd die, but more because they'd depop after 60 minutes and in no way do you have the dps to take one out in less than 60 minutes, even if you were full T2 and 3.5.

Fugitive was right in some aspect that you should pick the classes you like and have fun. But at some point you're going to hit a road block unless you have the typical Warrior or SK/pally setup. Maybe a monk, wizz or some other class to help supplement the others but generally speaking the core of your setup will be a warrior/pally(I myself use sk instead of warrior though, which seems to work for me). But in general the most common setup is a couple warriors and a couple pallys
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walk2k
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« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2011, 10:11:53 pm »

Ok did some parses with Gamparse.. not sure if it's all setup well for this (I have misses turned off, for one) but it should be close.  Here's a few quick ones:

Thanatos -
Pal 4888 dps
Rng 4272

Thanatos again-
Pal 4504
Rng 4270

Heh (he blinds and when he does it reduces ATK by a lot)
Pal 4907
Rng 2910 (!) apparently the pal procs aren't affected nearly as much by blind...

Amun
Pal 6181
Rng 4219

dragon trash ..
Pal 4100-6200
Rng 3700-4300
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Xiggie | Stone
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« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2011, 10:19:33 pm »

Unless it takes you at least 10 minutes to kill those mobs your parses are going to vary greatly from fight to fight.
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walk2k
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« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2011, 10:25:52 pm »

Shai-Hulud
Pal 5398
Rng 3715
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