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Author Topic: Ice Strike vs Fire Strike Augs  (Read 13686 times)
Medic
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« on: January 27, 2011, 07:54:31 pm »
Now I know that most people will come out here and immediately flame me because I have only been on EZ for about 6 months but there is something that really is bugging me about the crafters guild augs.

If you're playing a dual weilding toon, you have to pay twice as much to be as effective as a 2hd class on DPS output.  I won't even get into the weapon proc side of the pally and SK weapons.

I know a lot of us run a min of War/Pal/Pal + usually an SK or another pally.  So why are more people not running ranger or monks with dual weilded Ice Strike IV or V weapons.

I believe its because the cost to achieve equal DPS to the Pally/SK is twice as much of an aug cost. 
I am no expert on the DPS of a 4.0 Pally with 3 FS V vs a 4.0/4.0 Monk with 6 IS V but when I don't see the power players running around with a single monk or Ranger it tells me something.   It tells me their DPS is not sufficent to make them worth playing.

I propose in light of recent creations that instead of creating a single IceStrike IV from and IceStrike III that a IceCrystal be created which can be turned in to MacGuyver for 2 IceStrike IV.  I think this would do two things.
1) Increase DPS on the little played dual weilding classes, 2) more IceStrike IV will be made helping to remove more cash from the system.

Gimble
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Krunkley, Gimble and Co.
Brianlb
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« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2011, 09:05:26 am »
Quote from: Medic on January 27, 2011, 07:54:31 pm
Now I know that most people will come out here and immediately flame me because I have only been on EZ for about 6 months but there is something that really is bugging me about the crafters guild augs.

To this comment if people do that, and I know there are some who do, just tell them to fuck off. People tried that with me once. My thoughts are you're that you should be more than welcome to post your opinions whether you've been here one day or one year. Just make sure you know what you're posting about is all.

 
Back to the augs, I don't know that making two out of one needs to be done, but maybe making the IS a little cheaper. I think I remember Hunter saying once a few months back that maybe he'd consider lowering the vendor materials of the augs. That'd prob be the  best way to go. Not saying there needs to be some 50% reduction in price or anything. Especially since that'd kind of F over people like me who've made 7 diff strike IV or V augs. But a slight price reduction would probably make it a little more beneficial.
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TheBloodmoon
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« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2011, 06:54:16 pm »
It's a good point, though.  To give a DPS class twice the work to accomplish the same DPS (just dps, not counting the other inherently superior utility to SK/PAL epic procs) as a non-DPS class is a bit flawed in the larger scheme of things.

You want an easy way to help boost other class dps, this is a viable option.  Should a monk or bst really pay twice as much for inferior dps upgrades as opposed to a paladin?  I think it's fantastically wonderful that paladins and shadowknights are extremely powerful classes and got fed some much needed love, so don't get me wrong here.  I just think DPS classes should see a boost to effectively give a more diverse edge.

Even if creating the aforementioned alternative (2x icestrike IV created for each "ice crystal" made)isn't viable, then by all means, icestrike augs should have it's own set of components that have a much more reduced cost instead of sharing the same components as firestrikes so that the overall vendor purchased cost is somewhere in the range of 50%-75% of what it was.  This still doesn't factor in the market cost of SLS and tacvi/minor/major essences which wouldn't change between icestrike or firestrike.

This means that an icestrike IV could cost perhaps 500k worth of vendor components plus the normal SLS and essence components.  I think that would be a fair balance to shorten the gap we see between dual-wielding classes and 2h classes.  Honestly, how could anyone complain about that?  Could make your monk or bst slightly more useful again.  Wink
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lerxst2112
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« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2011, 07:02:33 pm »

Maybe Icestrike could use the purchased components starting at the lowest instead of the second tier where Firestrike does.  That would make them about half the cost of the same level Firestrike.  I don't know if it makes sense to have start with the Qvic essence instead of Tacvi.  If they did, then there could presumably be an Icestrike VI at the top end for the big spenders.
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Mechules
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« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2011, 08:35:19 pm »
This is why I'm looking forward to T5 because we should be getting firestrike/icestrike VI/VII augs shortly after. Very excited =)
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chunkumss
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« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2011, 11:43:19 pm »
Do you know something we don't? AFAIK we can't use Gods Major to make augs, so if T5 brings added levels to the augs it might be a while.
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Mechules
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« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2011, 02:55:09 am »
Hunter discussed briefly the possibility (probability) of adding extra ranks to the strike augs sometime after the new content is added. It only makes sense... I mean just the difference between T2 and T3 should prove evidence that from T4 to T5 will add a ton more hp onto bosses. We're gonna either need a lot more toons DPSing or add some more DPS to existent classes.
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Beerman
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« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2011, 06:46:02 am »
Quote from: lerxst2112 on January 28, 2011, 07:02:33 pm

Maybe Icestrike could use the purchased components starting at the lowest instead of the second tier where Firestrike does.  That would make them about half the cost of the same level Firestrike.  I don't know if it makes sense to have start with the Qvic essence instead of Tacvi.  If they did, then there could presumably be an Icestrike VI at the top end for the big spenders.

I don't necessarily think that there needs to be an "extra" icestrike tier, but I think that moving all the components down 1 tier for icestrike (bars and essences) would be the easiest and most effective way to bring parity to the costs without changing the price of firestrike as you basically double the price every tier as you go up right now.

Also would create a market for the Qvic essences to boot.
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Medic
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« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2011, 07:14:54 am »
I don't really care how we reduce the price but it's just plain wrong that no one plays the DPS classes because their DPS is inferior to SK/Pal/War and too expensive to make "equal".

Anyone have a 4.0/4.0 monk with 6 IceStrike IV or V that can parse the DPS for us?
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Krunkley, Gimble and Co.
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« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2011, 07:31:18 am »
I have 4.0s and 3 V's 2IV's and 1 III with a UC. I parse out at about 30 to 33k dps.
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Gnaughty
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« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2011, 10:12:34 am »
Mine with all V's UC full T4 blah blah hit 39k last week.  I'm still holding out for Wizard revisions!  My gnome army shall not collect dust forevor!
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Camric
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« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2011, 12:28:41 pm »
Just play a knight class, they are easily top dps coming in at 62k ~ 65k dps with UC + Aug V x 3.
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walk2k
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« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2011, 02:18:37 pm »
How about dropped augs for the DPS classes!!!

Starting at level III in tacvi and IV (combine to V in the box) in T1, like the others.  They would do 60-75% the DPS of Fire/Icestrike (so people who paid out the ass for those don't throw a tantrum).  Make one for dual wield classes, monk ranger rogue, zerker(? I don't know from zerkers..) and then make one for archery, doesn't have to be ranger only but would need to be 2x the dps since you don't dual wield them.
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TheBloodmoon
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« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2011, 05:50:45 pm »
I wouldn't be opposed to new dropped augs for all classes, to be honest, but they would need to be far inferior to crafted, regardless of 1her or 2her.  We're talking somewhere in the range for 25-30% effective.  The cost of the crafted augs should give them the "elite" status of having that huge boost over dropped augs.  Just my opinion...

Back to the topic at hand, however...

There needs to be a re-envisioning the crafted augment components (and their costs) for 1h classes to make up for the imbalance in cost to fully augment a dual-wielding class as compared to a 2h class (especially since 2h classes see double the DPS for half the augments).  I generally like a brainstorm of new ideas, but I don't want to lose the original purpose of this post in all of these suggestions that don't exactly tie into the spirit of the message.  I'm sure others would agree that this should be a priority to help bring dual-wielding classes up to speed with knights and warriors.
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Medic
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« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2011, 07:48:32 pm »
Quote from: Camric on February 02, 2011, 12:28:41 pm
Just play a knight class, they are easily top dps coming in at 62k ~ 65k dps with UC + Aug V x 3.



Camric.

I posted I have more knight classes then I care to play.  I would rather play a monk or rogue and have some diversity in the game.  Tired of seeing War/War/Pal/Pal/Pal/SK group running around.

Others

Don't be afraid to hijack the thread or start a new one about tweaking DPS for the pure DPS classes.  We need more class balance by increasing the ability of those classes and not call for nerfs to two very solid classes in the paladin and SK.
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Krunkley, Gimble and Co.
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