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Author Topic: Kick Starting the Economy  (Read 21919 times)
Camric
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« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2012, 02:46:22 pm »

Here is my 2 cents on the matter.

The game currently is very narrow in focus with long grinds or treadmills to earn items.  Of course, Hunter can't give players everything over night so there has be some kind of time sink in keeping the game interesting. 

One way to remove the stagnation in a single zone is to create itemization similar to EQ live with the "EZ" flare (uber stats).  Meaning, players will need to visit many zones to capture the best items in the game, no longer would be require to live in zone X, collecting useless items to generate mobs or gear.   In the new environment items will be rare and mobs difficult to defeat in order to obtain the best gear.

In this approach the time spent is the same as today's grinds.  However, this way time is spent figuring out the strategies to kill the mob and exploring to find the best gear.     

The other benefit is reducing the time and effort for Hunter to generate content.   Simply put, use the existing zones and loot tables to generate a few items over a larger period of time versus the "cram" session to get the next tier out the door.   Over time the world becomes extremely populated with unique items that keep game interesting and lessens the demand on Hunter to build elaborate Tiers for us to grind through.

What does this actually look like?  Think of a raid zone like ToV (temple of veeshan) as an example.  Using the content that already exists including mobs, loot, and boss simply modify the encounter to be difficult, boost the stats on the items, and some tweaking to the drop rates.   There you have itemization to entire zone with many different drops for all kinds of classes.  And the effort to do it?  IMO, much smaller than generating "T(x)" and no elaborate coding needed, i.e. T5.

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Strix
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« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2012, 04:16:32 pm »

One way to remove the stagnation in a single zone is to create itemization similar to EQ live with the "EZ" flare (uber stats).  Meaning, players will need to visit many zones to capture the best items in the game, no longer would be require to live in zone X, collecting useless items to generate mobs or gear.   In the new environment items will be rare and mobs difficult to defeat in order to obtain the best gear.

I really lilke the way you think Cam Cheesy  I've been on EZ so long I kind of forgot that we used to have to go to specific zones to find class specific items.  Would be great to see T7 (and beyond) be a return to this concept.

I'm also really liking Fugitive's addition too:
Gems or more bags of pp from T5
Gems or bags of PP from T3/T4 bosses
Qvic - T3 Bind on Equip (use that Auction house)
HoH Augs Bind on Equip (use that Auction house)

Add reducing the price on Ore as well and this would be a really good quick fix Smiley

As Xiggie Suggests:
I do think that some of the aug mats from the vendors could do with a reduction in price especially now since the exploit plat has been fixed and is making its way out of the economy. Hell I wouldn't be suprised if that was the reason it was set high in the first place.

Cheers
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Eyeolo
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« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2012, 08:29:37 pm »

I think the economy is about making things easier for everyone.  The people at the top need a lot of cash and it is easier for them to sell stuff then to farm gems.  They can sell loot rights or epic runs.

For the people at the bottom it may take less time to save up the plat to pay for a run then to fight their way through themselves.   The only way for low level players to make cash from other players is to farm SLSs because this is tedious for anyone to do. 

Maybe if the tasks paid more cash that would go up the food chain to top level players spending it on aug materials.  On the other hand if the materials were cheaper then the high levels would have less incentive to earn cash from low players.
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Ponzi
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« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2012, 05:08:43 am »

I think the economy is about making things easier for everyone.  The people at the top need a lot of cash and it is easier for them to sell stuff then to farm gems.  They can sell loot rights or epic runs.

It is not easy to sell anything on this server atm. It's far and away easier to farm and sell gems then to sell t3/t4/t5 armor. There isn't buyers at this point, which is the point of this thread. Smiley
« Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 05:13:11 am by Ponzi » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2012, 06:31:42 am »

Im WTB essence of abyss.  pst in game.  just throwin that out there. Tongue
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Xiggie | Stone
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« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2012, 07:29:00 pm »

Since the creation of the market it has always been easier to make plat by farming gems than by selling drops. You can make tons more plat by farming gems. Now when we had all this exploit plat in the system people were buying stuff like wildfire because of that exploited plat. This is just adjustment pains. This same thing happen the last time a plat exploit was closed.
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hateborne
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« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2012, 05:17:03 pm »

It is not easy to sell anything on this server atm. It's far and away easier to farm and sell gems then to sell t3/t4/t5 armor. There isn't buyers at this point, which is the point of this thread. Smiley

Firstly, I have a hard time taking anything you say as legit and not a scam in disguise.

Second, I think we do need some pseudo-lower drops that can be sold off.

Third, UNCE UNCE UNCE.


Seriously though, I do believe that for an economy to exist there must be something in demand. Depending on the time/day/phase-of-the-moon, drops are inconsistent. Some days, may only be you selling them. Other days, you may be competing with five others and nothing will sell. Farming gems, while boring and seemingly slow, is unfortunately the fastest way possible bring in coin. So let us look at things players on EZ Server want...

Augments - Be it weapon augments or armor augments, players want them. Obviously farming up and making weapon augments is too laborious and time consuming to effectively produce revenue. On the other hand, armor augments are dropping like candy in Plane of Gods but carry the Bind On Pickup tag.

Tier Spells - These are somewhat class dependant, but are heavily desired by those that rely on those spells to function. Prime example is my favorite class, the Wizard. Without the T3 nuke, the wizard is hardly worth notice save for something else to rezz at the end of the fight. The Shadow Knight is also a class that sees a heavy increase from T3/T4 spells.

Charms - These are items that occur rarely and at random that light up our days. This example can be made most clear with a Sorcerer's Charm dropping in LDON4. Many of us have farmed untold hours there. Others include Shadow's dropped charms and the Plane of God avatars. These DEFINE how powerful our abilities are and are probably the single most important thing we can farm.

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So now that we have defined these categories, where do we go from here? How can we make those three categories marketable?

On Augments : Cut the Plane of Gods drop rate for augments in half, allow all augment producing materials to be tradable (lose BoP tag). This way, players on the lower end of the spectrum could gear up while farming things that the entire server community needs. Any of the high end players may argue that the PoG drop rate halving will hurt how long it takes to full slot out a character. Although this may hold some truth, if the character is even being played then the character will fill out simply from maxing out one charm.

On Tier Spells: Remove the BoP tag, add a Lore tag (or does that already exist?). By making the spells tradable, players can use them as currency instead of trying frantically to sell it off before the timer expires. Doing this would also allow the players that cannot play at 'peak hours' to monetize their play time more efficiently since a rare drop spell can be sold later instead of within a 30 minute window.

On Charms: Remove Lore and No Drop tags from L1 charms and remove No Drop tag from L2 charms. As charms essentially define how well a character does a given action, these could (and possibly should?) become a staple in the EZ Server economy. Right now it is easier to farm Shadow over LDON because the drop rates are irrelevant and chances for multiple charms. LDON is pretty much designed (on purpose or accidentally) to require many many many hours of grinding or many hours of zone training. Neither of which are openly socially geared or terribly exciting. Allowing players to use them as an alternative currency will help alleviate some of the monotony of the charm grind and stimulate player interaction/trade.

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Is there anything else?

Yes, actually. Everquest was (and still is) a grindy game with a lot of chance involved. There seems to be too much grind and too little chance. It would be very nice to add some chance back to the game without overdosing on it. As Fugitive has mentioned, more cash would be helpful on the high end. However, I do not believe ensured drops are the answer. Similar to charms, I believe that adding items similar to coins bags as random drops can help with this. It should not be quite as rare as charms, but it shouldn't be something seen very often either. I am referring to small bonuses that cause a smile when they drop.

Here goes... let's assume 5,000 platinum per tier. Example drop rates below (again, theoretical just for a more complete visual image)
1 in 25: Tier 1 Chests, Tier 2 Chests, Plane of God's Avatars, T5 Trash
1 in 20: Tier 1-2 Bosses
1 in 15: Shadow, Tier 3 Bosses
1 in 10: Tier 4-5 Bosses

In the example above, a small bag of 20kpp might drop from a tier 4 or tier 5 boss one in every 10 kills. Although not overly useful in itself, after the number of bosses most of us will afk through...it adds up. In my humble and flawed opinion, I would suggest extremely higher rewards but lower drop rates. ~25k per tier but matching drop rates. I do not claim to know Hunter/Basher/Secret or their plans for world domina..err EZ server.

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Lastly, I would suggest that we get several day spawns. Things that spawn randomly in public zones every 3-5 days that require 10+ people to kill and drop horrific amounts of charms, epic books, and a sparse few weapon augment components. Similar to what Cazic Thule or Nag/Vox raids used to be like.


That's it. Thanks for reading another random comment.

-Hate





P.S. - Please excuse spelling. Typing while eating, texting, and foraging on RIFT.
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Ponzi
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« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2012, 09:35:16 pm »

The idea of losing the no drop tag on armor augments and charms is very intriguing. A nice alternative to grinding cash,

Losing the no drop on spells in t3/t4 is also interesting to me. Only downside their is most classes aren't *supposed* to be able to use those spells until they are into T3.. For example.. Pallys in Qvic who can use stonewall, Classes like Necro and Mage even more OP'd early game with T3 heal spells. SKs in Dulak and time AE'n things.. Clerics casting 5 hour 10k hp buffs....

And speaking of buffs. The mere thought of Shamans able to cast Kracken in Qvic-PoD would be enough to keep Fugi and the old guard up at night. heh. so maybe make the spells usable only with a T2+ BP equipped.. Is that even codable? I love the idea of them being tradable, that's just the fly in the ointment probably stopping it from happening.

-- One small correction: Shadow doesnt have a chance to drop mutliple charms. I do also love the idea of the random 'make you smile' cash bumps on mobs.

As for charms being tradable, it's far closer to fixing the 'giving noobs something worthwhile to farm' like the SLSs were supposed to. But Hunter has said on record multiple times UC is supposed to be hard as hell to get, and making charms tradable would make that easier. And removing the lore tag would take out LDON's greatest defense against BOTers.

The mega mobs in public zones (akin to holiday events) is a fun idea, but I see enough < FP > in public zones as it is, and they'd block the public from experiencing most of it, as they do.. every...single.. holiday.
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« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2012, 10:58:01 pm »

I dont think they will have the mana needed to cast these spells at that low of a level Ponzi.. but havent really looked into it much, wouldn't bother me at all to see any of this discussed used in game.
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hateborne
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« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2012, 12:04:53 am »

Losing the no drop on spells in t3/t4 is also interesting to me. Only downside their is most classes aren't *supposed* to be able to use those spells until they are into T3.. For example.. Pallys in Qvic who can use stonewall, Classes like Necro and Mage even more OP'd early game with T3 heal spells. SKs in Dulak and time AE'n things.. Clerics casting 5 hour 10k hp buffs....

Fugitive hit this in his post, most won't have the mana. If somehow they do manage it, it's probably 'about that time'.


-- One small correction: Shadow doesnt have a chance to drop mutliple charms. I do also love the idea of the random 'make you smile' cash bumps on mobs.

He can drop both L2 and L1 charms. Just got Sorc V2, Guardian V2, and Oracle V1 Thursday night. Unless you are referring to L1 charms, in which case you are very much correct.


As for charms being tradable, it's far closer to fixing the 'giving noobs something worthwhile to farm' like the SLSs were supposed to. But Hunter has said on record multiple times UC is supposed to be hard as hell to get, and making charms tradable would make that easier. And removing the lore tag would take out LDON's greatest defense against BOTers.

Actually, the best defense is the player base. Even if some one did bot farm like hell, Hunter's logs see absolutely everything. From the items you sell, to the chat messages you send, to the NPCs you kill (when, where, how). If GenericWarriorNameHere is in LDON6 for 27 straight hours at a time, Hunter would catch on.


Also, a year+ ago...charms WERE the main source of cash. Before the weapon augments and all that SLS farming, charms were a source of cash for lowbies. The only difference was the drops were sold when they dropped.


Either way, just suggestions.

-Hate
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Ponzi
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« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2012, 05:54:09 am »

I love your suggestions, hate. Just playin' a little devils advocate.

I still think Kracken/Armor of Crab (at 10kmana) could be used a *lot* earlier than intended.. but the net result would only help those newest to the server (hell people might be able to 3-4 box their own Qvics and Tacvis, might be an improvement even).

I don't count v2 charms on Shadow as bonuses.. I have toons i never intend to UC sitting at 100 v2s because they are so much more common than v1 (esp once you stop living in ldon and need tokens).

And the extra bonus cash drops need to happen, indeed Smiley
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hateborne
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« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2012, 06:59:20 pm »

Hah don't worry Ponzi, I appreciate it. If we had more people intelligently bringing counter points, we would get much more universally accept patches/adjustments.

Thanks!

-Hate
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sarroth
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« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2012, 12:21:38 pm »

I wonder if a simple addition that might help the economy would be to add some Vaniki style mobs to the low level zones (paludal, mistmoore, dulak, etc). The mobs could drop trade-able essences that low level toons could sell.

Because of the way Vaniki-type mobs spawn, they're fairly farm proof.

The idea would be:
- add 3 static place holders to a low level zone
- the PH's are invisible, untargetable mobs
- each PH has a 5-10% chance to spawn the named (unless the named is already up)
- the named has an equal chance to drop any essence (qvic, gods major, etc)
- the respawn time on each PH is about 3 days
- named mobs are of the difficulty of normal mobs in the zone
- named mobs spawn only in public zones, not instanced zones

Advantages:
- can't farm because it's impossible to kill the PH's and they don't spawn in instances
- low levels can kill the named during their normal leveling, should they be lucky enough to see it
- low levels will be able to sell the essences
- shouldn't flood the market with essences, depending on the respawn rates

Disadvantages:
- will decrease the rarity of essences, depending on respawn rates
- might encourage people to leave bots in low level zones with alarms that go off when the named spawns?


Thoughts?
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hateborne
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« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2012, 05:41:45 pm »

Being a low level or fresh to server, there is a chance that high end players could screw over lower ends.
3 static spawning NPCs, possibly. Each would need ~10 possible spawn points to prevent spawn camps. (You hit in Dis.)
3 Days with 3 spawns = Up to 9 players getting bumped, others passing through receive nothing.

It is a neat idea, but more of a lottery than jump-start for economy. Economies seem to function better on more a mechanically predictable basis.

Not to self promote, but as listed earlier:
Lore and/or No Drop tags off of Charm v1.
No Drop tags off of Charm v2.
No Drop tags off of PoD/PoG augment components (but augs stay no drop).
Lore and/or No Drop tags off of T3/T4 spells (and enchanter/druid qvic+ spells).


-Hate
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cerwin
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« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2012, 08:30:19 pm »


Not to self promote, but as listed earlier:
Lore and/or No Drop tags off of Charm v1.
No Drop tags off of Charm v2.
No Drop tags off of PoD/PoG augment components (but augs stay no drop).
Lore and/or No Drop tags off of T3/T4 spells (and enchanter/druid qvic+ spells).


I think these would be great if implemented
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