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Author Topic: New Spells List Suggestions (RELEASED!)  (Read 66914 times)
hateborne
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« on: March 12, 2012, 11:25:39 pm »

NOTE: This page can now be reached by http://tinyurl.com/eznewspells

DISCLAIMER #1: These are merely suggestions on spells that can be added to both improve player experience and better round out classes. Some of these spells have a very retro naming/effect setup. This was intentional to help with the nostalgia trip.


DISCLAIMER #2 AND MOST IMPORTANT!
Most/all of these spells I can write. I can write the spell queries, the spell scroll queries, and even basic testing. The only thing I cannot do is add them to loot tables. That would be the only part that requires work on Hunter's part. This will help expedite the process.



DISCLAIMER #3: Most of these are built off of guess work and attempted balancing. Some of the numbers will be too high, some too low, some perfect. Do *NOT* take these as absolute final, set-in-stone values. This entire list is a SUGGESTION LIST. It is also a work-in-progress. I am posting it in this state to get feedback and hopefully some ideas.


FINAL DISCLAIMER: The numbers I factored in for DoTs assume that the Sorcerer's Charms be made to affect DoT damage. I would suggest 30-50% DoT Damage Increase per 10 Sorcerer's. (For DD spells, it is 50% per 10 Sorcerer's). It's about that time.


THESE ARE LIVE!

List is now here: http://ezserver.online/forums/index.php?topic=2726.msg36068#msg36068


-Hate
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 05:20:23 pm by hateborne » Logged

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Hurley
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« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2012, 05:26:16 am »

That is an absolute shit-ton of information. Not sure how some of would work for balancing as I think some of the values may be unrealistic but I know they were preliminary. All of these classes getting AoE might negate one of the warriors greatest upsides though, just a thought. I LOVE the shaman getting an endurance cure spell that would actually make a difference. When I have more time, ill read it more carefully and get some better feedback on them.
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Xiggie | Stone
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« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2012, 10:47:35 am »

I am not trying to pick at all but I could see nothing that I would want to use. And yes, I did read the whole thing and no I do not have any better ideas. I just don't see where any of them are really beneficial per the tier they are calling for. If were up to me I would wrap druid, shamans, and enchanters into one class and call them drumanters.
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Lexington
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« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2012, 11:43:42 am »

great suggestions +1
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Trasque
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« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2012, 01:21:25 pm »

BL:
As everyone says the BL pet is dps and the a big issue is healing it - how about an upgraded version of the lvl 70 healing spell. 

Maybe a new "spirit of" spell

Possibly a proc rate spell for group? Similar mechanics to bard blade storm

Group heal spell?

Monk:
Would be nice to see Monks get a stun hit % for standard auto attack. Not really sure where else to go with monk..unless disease/poison/curse immunity.
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Digz
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« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2012, 02:36:09 pm »

this is a great start to trying to get some class balance discussion going, theres issues with the first draft but i think its a great start. i cant really comment on any of the caster classes as im more of a melee orientated player.

Bard: at this point adding any other type of melee mitigation spell would be overpowered, a warrior can sit at 70% mitigation with a 6.0 and stone monster pet, maybe make it melee avoidance instead of mitigation if anything..../shrug. The whole stigma of them only being good for RoAing a character seems pretty disappointing, although im finding great use in my bard from his 3.0 click right up to the end of T4 content. Id like to see an upgraded version of the bard 3.0 click (12% crit on spells) as its an insanely underated spell mostly due to people not finding the 12% crit worth having to click their epic every 60 seconds. Maybe on one of the 4.0+ weapons, put an upgraded version of the 3.0 click (closer to 20-30% crit maybe?) but keep the 4.0 click on the other higher end epics since thats still an amazing click to have.

the spell mitigation idea might be worth looking into though, thats far from useless i would think. Storm blade change looks really good too, values look pretty reasonable.

At this point im curious as to if its worth taking a look into songs effecting augment damage again. i think its a 15% dmg incease that was originally nerfed for whatever reason? doesn't seem terribly high and a change like this wouldturn the bard from a zero to a hero.

Also a Thought of Pet classes. Ive been pondering on who to add to my second group for T5 and since im running 6 melee characters already, i wanted to add some diversity to the group but all i ever hear is that pets just get 1 shot in T5+ resulting in the majority of the pet classes becomming second rate dps after their pet dies, its no wonder class representation in T5+ is whack, and i think the pet issue is the #1 reason. Is there any way to get those pets survivability up w/o increasing their hp by factors of 2-3?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 05:10:37 pm by Digz » Logged
Digz
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« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2012, 02:53:37 pm »

1 more thing. I personally feel that if we are ever going to balance out all of the classes to the best of our ability, then there needs to be some seriously major/drastic changes, possibly even game changing spells/click added. For example If an enchanter ever wants a chance of a group spot vs a monk then they need more then just a pet (especially after noting the issues pets have in my above post), they need some extremely good buffs outside of haste since the only other role a chanter would have is to Mez and well, thats kinda out of the question. Same goes for druids (and shamans to a lesser extent since they at least serve 1 good purpose) all healer classes should have the same heal proc that paladins & clerics get, thats only a start but without that neither class stands a chance at earning a group spot over a paladin/cleric.
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Kwai
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« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2012, 04:32:19 pm »

A couple of ideas on spells that I don't think have been touched on..

ENCs
  Could use a slow casting DD that scales up...
 
  Add these spells:
  Insanity II, III, IV
  Direct Damage = 5000/10000/15000

BST
  Could use one of their normal insta cast blasts and a pet buff that procs heal.

  Poison Blast II, III, IV
  Insta cast = 2000/4000/10000

  Growl of the XXXX (T5)
  Procs Pet Heal over time 10000/Tick

SHM
  Would love to see their Slow spells actually work.

Ranger
  Hail of Arrows II, III, IV
  AE Damage = 2000, 4000, 10000
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Lexington
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« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2012, 06:12:19 pm »

shaman's 2.0 click in spell form for shamans would be amazing *the live version that is*
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hateborne
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« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2012, 07:10:33 pm »

That is an absolute shit-ton of information. Not sure how some of would work for balancing as I think some of the values may be unrealistic but I know they were preliminary. All of these classes getting AoE might negate one of the warriors greatest upsides though, just a thought. I LOVE the shaman getting an endurance cure spell that would actually make a difference. When I have more time, ill read it more carefully and get some better feedback on them.

A lot of these classes already have an AoE, they are just unusable. Right now, Warriors are best AoE (followed by high charm zerker, and then high charm SK with t4 spell). The paladin AoE is crap at low end (but gives them SOMETHING) and equivalent to a single Anger V aug once t5.

Various buffs that shave off a percent of the damage are intentionally set high. This will allow them to be cast somewhat regularly. I did not want them to become something spammed nor did I want a set-and-forget buff.

Give me some specifics and I can revise. :-)


I am not trying to pick at all but I could see nothing that I would want to use. And yes, I did read the whole thing and no I do not have any better ideas. I just don't see where any of them are really beneficial per the tier they are calling for. If were up to me I would wrap druid, shamans, and enchanters into one class and call them drumanters.

Well I figured you wouldn't like them poopy pants. None of these suggestions are AFK friendly. I have given up hope of ever having similar points of view with you. Thanks for the input all the same though.


Bard: at this point adding any other type of melee mitigation spell would be overpowered, a warrior can sit at 70% mitigation with a 6.0 and stone monster pet, maybe make it melee avoidance instead of mitigation if anything..../shrug. The whole stigma of them only being good for RoAing a character seems pretty disappointing, although im finding great use in my bard from his 3.0 click right up to the end of T4 content. Id like to see an upgraded version of the bard 3.0 click (12% crit on spells) as its an insanely underated spell mostly due to people not finding the 12% crit worth having to click their epic every 60 seconds. Maybe on one of the 4.0+ weapons, put an upgraded version of the 3.0 click (closer to 20-30% crit maybe?) but keep the 4.0 click on the other higher end epics since thats still an amazing click to have.

You raise a valid point. There are a few warriors that this could break. Would a "Mitigate X percent until Y damage" be more preferable? In example: "Mitigate 10 percent until 10000 damage taken". This would give a small 'buffer' zone for tanks and help the non-tanks survive more than a single AoE in t5/6. With the song refreshing every 6 seconds, it would likely never fade from those not tanking (and only the first 10k off for tanks).

As for the +crit song, maybe a new Ancient: Call of Power with the added crit. This would give both aug damage and added crit. The drop level would be probably "Warlord or MCP/t5".


At this point im curious as to if its worth taking a look into songs effecting augment damage again. i think its a 15% dmg incease that was originally nerfed for whatever reason? doesn't seem terribly high and a change like this wouldturn the bard from a zero to a hero.

The Ancient: Call of Power is approx. +35% spell damage. That is already pretty substantial.


1 more thing. I personally feel that if we are ever going to balance out all of the classes to the best of our ability, then there needs to be some seriously major/drastic changes, possibly even game changing spells/click added. For example If an enchanter ever wants a chance of a group spot vs a monk then they need more then just a pet (especially after noting the issues pets have in my above post), they need some extremely good buffs outside of haste since the only other role a chanter would have is to Mez and well, thats kinda out of the question. Same goes for druids (and shamans to a lesser extent since they at least serve 1 good purpose) all healer classes should have the same heal proc that paladins & clerics get, thats only a start but without that neither class stands a chance at earning a group spot over a paladin/cleric.

I don't feel that matching hybrids with true healer (cleric) is the best route. With the add in of some of the DoTs/Nukes, plus a variety of useful buffs, they should more than earn their right as a viable group member.


BL:
As everyone says the BL pet is dps and the a big issue is healing it - how about an upgraded version of the lvl 70 healing spell. 

Maybe a new "spirit of" spell

Possibly a proc rate spell for group? Similar mechanics to bard blade storm

Group heal spell?

Monk:
Would be nice to see Monks get a stun hit % for standard auto attack. Not really sure where else to go with monk..unless disease/poison/curse immunity.

Testing BL tonight, will let you know.


A couple of ideas on spells that I don't think have been touched on..

ENCs
  Could use a slow casting DD that scales up...
 
  Add these spells:
  Insanity II, III, IV
  Direct Damage = 5000/10000/15000

BST
  Could use one of their normal insta cast blasts and a pet buff that procs heal.

  Poison Blast II, III, IV
  Insta cast = 2000/4000/10000

  Growl of the XXXX (T5)
  Procs Pet Heal over time 10000/Tick

SHM
  Would love to see their Slow spells actually work.

Ranger
  Hail of Arrows II, III, IV
  AE Damage = 2000, 4000, 10000

Enchanter Insanity line, nice. Will update my list with them. BST will be tested tonight. Slows are possible but would need Hunter's input on that one. Ranger, I will have to test. To prevent overpowering and to make it more "ranger" like, it may not be a bad idea to make that Hail of Arrows into an instant cast spell with a short cooldown (AoE rain effect, 1 wave [4 targets], 6-8 sec CD?).


shaman's 2.0 click in spell form for shamans would be amazing *the live version that is*

Can you provide a link to the spell effect? I can't search that heavily at the moment and I am curious what the effect is on the 2.0 epic (live).



Keep'em coming. Once we get the list more rounded out, hopefully Hunter will like some/all of these suggestions.

If you don't like the numbers on a spell(s), POST BETTER SUGGESTED NUMBERS. Simply posting "the numbers are off" is too vague. Specify what is too high/low, or don't mention it.

-Hate
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lerxst2112
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« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2012, 07:33:34 pm »


While I was fixing up the spell list on Akka's Funhouse I saw a lot of very cool higher level spells that we naturally don't have access to because of the level cap.  It might be worth looking into choosing some already implemented, fun, presumably somewhat balanced spells from live and just reducing the level requirement.

Spells are very easy to import from a live spell file, and most of them work perfectly.  There will be some with unimplemented effects, but you can either replace those effects with something else, take that effect off, or just not pick that spell.  For the most part the ones I saw that didn't work were ones that added AC2 or some of the other stats that the emulator doesn't have.

Stuff like Clash of Many, Kron's Maelstrom, delayed pet heals, pet buffs that proc pet/group heals were all very useful and fun to play with.  Some of the newer discs were also very nice.
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Dethundrel
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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2012, 07:47:14 pm »


The Ancient: Call of Power is approx. +35% spell damage. That is already pretty substantial.

To prevent overpowering and to make it more "ranger" like, it may not be a bad idea to make that Hail of Arrows into an instant cast spell with a short cooldown (AoE rain effect, 1 wave [4 targets], 6-8 sec CD?).

Ancient: Call of Power spell description says 30%, yet I have never had it boost any spell damage at all, casted or proc, let alone 30%, that's a big number that I've just never seen.

As for Hail of Arrows, on live the damage actually scaled with what bow you had, and it was not magic damage delt, it was physical.  With it being physical, it was also effected by Trueshot in that it doubled it.  It was supposed to be like shooting an extra 4 arrows all at once.  Originally it was not limited to 4 targets, but was later changed.  It was also directional, as it is here, but the damage here is absolutly pathetic, only hits for around 1500 or so per shot. To have it be accurate, you would have to have 1 spell per tier to match the power of the Epic Bow for that tier.  IE if my 4.0 bow can pop 25k normal hits, this spell would have to be 25k damage x4 targets.  That being said, the 4.0 Epic Bow already has a 30k dmg AOE x4 targets on it with the added snare effect.
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hateborne
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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2012, 08:29:06 pm »

No gloves/legs/UC and no bard song:
Practice Dummy was hit for 25000 points of damage. (x4)
Practice Dummy was hit for 60000 points of damage. (crit)

No gloves/legs/UC but WITH bard song:
Practice Dummy was hit for 32500 points of damage. (x4)
Practice Dummy was hit for 78000 points of damage. (crit).

25000 / 32500 = 0.3  or 30%.

Keep in mind the damage is 30% from BASE, not 30% of the charm/gear improved damage.

-Hate
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Duladian
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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2012, 09:13:53 pm »

Bard

Bard: at this point adding any other type of melee mitigation spell would be overpowered, a warrior can sit at 70% mitigation with a 6.0 and stone monster pet, maybe make it melee avoidance instead of mitigation if anything..../shrug. The whole stigma of them only being good for RoAing a character seems pretty disappointing, although im finding great use in my bard from his 3.0 click right up to the end of T4 content. Id like to see an upgraded version of the bard 3.0 click (12% crit on spells) as its an insanely underated spell mostly due to people not finding the 12% crit worth having to click their epic every 60 seconds. Maybe on one of the 4.0+ weapons, put an upgraded version of the 3.0 click (closer to 20-30% crit maybe?) but keep the 4.0 click on the other higher end epics since thats still an amazing click to have.

You raise a valid point. There are a few warriors that this could break. Would a "Mitigate X percent until Y damage" be more preferable? In example: "Mitigate 10 percent until 10000 damage taken". This would give a small 'buffer' zone for tanks and help the non-tanks survive more than a single AoE in t5/6. With the song refreshing every 6 seconds, it would likely never fade from those not tanking (and only the first 10k off for tanks).

As for the +crit song, maybe a new Ancient: Call of Power with the added crit. This would give both aug damage and added crit. The drop level would be probably "Warlord or MCP/t5".

The y mitigation until X damage is taken would most likely be the best idea. Its not a huge difference for the tank but it gives the dps a buffer zone to survive that crucial aoe.

As for the 3.0+ clickie, I think it should be added to the effect of 4.0+ or even make it a T4 drop song or something.

As for the
New Storm Blade (Tempest Blade) qvic/t2/t5 *GROUP*
      Decrease Hitpoints by 250/750/2250

I'd actually like to see the numbers a little higher. If someone says they are to high because of a melee heavy group think of it this way. A wizard heavy group would benefit from the Call of Power just as much. 30% increase to the 50k, 75k, 100k damage spells would be 65k, 97.5k, 130k. That could be a lot if added onto the UC and everything else. Now you have to have a melee class equal that same damage output. I don't know the numbers of speed vs. proc rate but I'm sure 2250 in T5 isn't nearly as much as a wizard with 30% increase could do. As for my group I notice a rough 1 out of 4 melees proc Storm Blade at this moment(Half T1/Tacvi gear) I'd have to do a more stable calculation.
Please also note that you have to INCLUDE the tank and 2-3 melee healers you have! This has to be included into the calculation of damage, or this will be over powered!!!!!

Please ignore any ignorance I may have. I'm not far into the server and mostly just a lurker. I just wanted to add my 2 cents. Thanks
« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 09:15:54 pm by Duladian » Logged
Dethundrel
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« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2012, 09:50:52 pm »

I see now why I wasn't noticing any damage increase from bard song, it's casted spells only.  Procs / Epic Click damage does not count.
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