RoA Quest Fix

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[Gannicus]

I have way to many words to speak on this subject as im currently working on roa - and one night I went to bed without finishing my mains ROA run, so he is prob 20, and now figuring all the stuff its looking like I have to do, ridiculous. BUT - I saw a few good ideas, a ROA LDON type deal, each level has a certain level range. But also like to point out the obvious, nerfing every class and everyone because of this is just counterproductive as it can get. Set the timer, let people do it in 10 minutes and be done with it. They have 50 minutes until they can do it again, no harm no foul. Nerfing 1-100 does not make sense after making the ring go up to 500

[zymral]

I am in the position of the above poster. Regardless of what is was intended for at least a year the time it takes has been to complete ROA has been about 30 to 40 min. If the pain is the 100-500 just make the aa's needed higher and leave well enough alone. The time required to catch up is high enough already. Why double the time it takes to even start let alone force it to be done in ways no one has ever had to do. If the Roa is not working as it was intended take it out, or change it so you have instanced zones for 101-500. You could even work this into a new tier. This way people still have the ways every one else has used to a) level alts and b) do roa.

[Hunter]

The completely stupid stuff that I don't want is a level 1 person with 300k HP in an unrestricted or unfinished zone killing level 70 mobs fast and easy with either super dd proc buff or super damage shield, or using some super pet to do all that work for them effortlessly, to gain 70 levels in 10 minutes.

I think we can work out a timer thing on the RoA allowing only 1 turn in per hour and max of 5 per day, then ease up on other stuff such as increase exp rates on zones, more exp potions, and allow reasonable buffs for DS, HP, Regen, etc.

With that system in place, then I wouldn't mind damage shields much anyway. I don't know if or how I am going to change damage shields in the future. I know the new source code allows for 0 exp from DS kills but I also know players would exploit their way around this by doing a combo of DS and themselves casting an AoE to get credit as well even though DS did most of the damage.

I understand the want and need for power leveling by using other classes buffs to help out, but this has gotten way broken to the point that its not even a challenge anymore due to new spells and clickies that have become available in the last 2 years. Things have actually gotten easier (not harder) since people figured out ways of doing RoA that wasn't intended. Now people are too spoiled by the unintended exploits, or jealous that other people got to do the exploit before, and now its getting fixed after being brought to my attention.

In between polishing old content and creating new tiers, we have new stuff like the Shield of the Ages Rank 40, Ring of the Ages Rank 500, Exp Potions, Mana Necklace, Halloween Items, New Mounts, New Spells, New Clickies etc. In addition to that stuff we've already added, I'd also be in favor of new alternate zones to do RoA and Charms in to make the grind less boring and not stuck in just 1 zone. ToFS is one idea that we're working with. Maybe some sort of quest or bosses to make the grind a little bit faster or at least seem faster. A possible earring quest is being brain stormed as well which might have ranked percentage Divine Save, another new clickie toy to make things easier.

This is not WoW, and I'm not going to streamline these grind quest for RoA or Charms. Maybe the gap between the noobs and the veterans is getting bigger but thats cause we're getting more content, items, quest, tiers, etc. Causal players will take longer to get the best gear. If everyone could get max rank everything in a week, or month, then there would be no more reason to play. I am actually trying to make more content than players can do, even though there are the few hardcore veterans with more hours to play than others that must have best gear. I consider these players the carrot on the stick, advertising to the newer players what they could have if investing enough time on the server, to become super godly like with all those tier armor and quested rank clickies etc.

As more tiers come out, I do make previous tiers slightly easier with better drop rates, spawn rates, rot bots, etc. The hardcore original players had to do it the hard way taking more time to spawn bosses, to kill bosses, having rots didn't need without rot bot, etc. Its the new players that actually have it easier, and more tools (rot bots, spells, strike augs, clickes, ranked items for hp, etc) to get through the tiers easier. Just recently I made T5 Anguish bosses spawn faster, and T6 Anguish drop more epic pages and essences faster, as well as some other tiers dropping essences slightly faster now. I actually got an email recently that essences for Anguish were now dropping too fast, so I had to adjust it again slightly. As newer tiers come out, previous tiers get slightly faster to catch up with end game players a little bit, but I'm not going to streamline too fast for the casual WoW players.

The players that have been around for a while will tell ya that there has been nerfs in the past, and some times I undo them, or make them less painful. Some people say grinding is not their thing and quit the server. That is fine, and I'm still not going to stream line it cause someone was butt hurt over the time required to get best gear on the server. Everyone here posting on the forums are doing good, expressing your opinions about the changes. This is the feed back I need from both new and old players. I am trying to make this fun, but I don't want to give away max gear in 1 month. Personally I love the idea about being able to brag about gear that you have and is hard to obtain.

I think 1 hour per RoA Rank is reasonable. I'd be willing to make the RoA faster again (without stupid exploits) if we have say a 1 hour timer for turn in and limit of 5 per day. We'll brainstorm some more ideas on alternate zones as well for RoA and Charms. The goal will be to make the grind more fun by using different zones, maybe slightly faster, but not 10 minutes per rank.

This is sadly like politics, expressing just one side of the story. So the RoA is getting nerfed? Yes, sort of. Don't forget all the other stuff that have been added as well that made things easier.


 

[Xalle]

I think the time limit is a good solution to the RoA problem.

[Strix]

Adjusting mobs so the exp is fast enough so that no one can do it in less than an hour means that lower geared toons will spend half a day in there trying to level.

True.

I do seem to recall my first 10 or so levels of RoA taking close to 2 hours before deciding to make a tool kit for it.  I never used a bard for any of mine so the average time it took was about 40 mins per round. 60 mins seems about fair either on a timer or dedicated zone. If Hunter is adamant about no buffing on the cycle I can't see how the timer addresses this.

/shrug

[Worthington]

With the new system in place tonight i was able to get the RoA run down to about 50 min.  That's as best i could do it.  So the one hour turn in timer is a great idea.  I don't think there should be a limit of 5 turn ins a day, because of days off for people that don't get to sign on everyday. Someones day off could be purely dedicated to an RoA grind if that's what they decide to do.  Could we have an 8 turn in limit instead, like an 8 hour work day?

If one starts in a low level zone with kraken then the ability for the proc to work starts immediately, then move on to a higher level zone, etc etc etc.  There are a ton of low level zones and mid level zones to work with without having to create any zones for just RoA's.  Less work for Hunter and the dev team. 

[Worthington]

After thinking about it more i actually disagree with a limit on amount of turn ins.  Why limit a person on turning in the RoA if your going to put an hour timer on it?  That's like a double whammy. Even if someone plays until their eyes bleed you get maybe 24 to 36 turn ins in a session then the person sleeps for a day to make up for the lack of sleep.

[Strix]

The completely stupid stuff that I don't want is a level 1 person with 300k HP in an unrestricted or unfinished zone killing level 70 mobs fast and easy with either super dd proc buff or super damage shield, or using some super pet to do all that work for them effortlessly, to gain 70 levels in 10 minutes.

Yeah - the more I read this the more I can't see how introducing a timer alone is going to stop people from: "...killing level 70 mobs fast and easy with either super dd proc buff or super damage shield, or using some super pet to do all that work for them effortlessly, to gain 70 levels in 10 minutes". 

Given this:

Update (rebooting):
Incinerating Aura is changed to pet buff until I figure a better way to fix this. Allowing a low level noob to kill level 70 mobs is not intended.

I know on live certain buffs wouldn't land on characters under a certain level, could do that with incinerating aura, etc.

Doesn't work on EMU

It seems that the following spells are also problematic (in a similar fashion to Incinerating Aura):

- Kraken
- Druid DS line
- Mage DS line
- Bard DS + Tempest Blade Line

Are we seriously talking about removing DD procs and Damage Shields from the game because of RoA ranks 1 to 100??  All of these spells are highly valued t5+ and are a really fun aspect of the game.

I don't think the timer is a good idea at all if this is going to be the follow on effect.

[Poker-ecaf]

i think 1 per hour is good time maybe bit faster but is okay to me!!!

5 per day is stupid if u ask me if anyone will do 23h farming RoA have fun and do ur 23-24 turnin 's per day !!! and make 100 in 5 days u got a lot of Cocain XD


limit per day suxx, when i got an feeling today i farming whole day RoA's i need to pass and can do only 5 ! and other day i dont wanna do more then 2-3 times

[Hunter]

I guess both sides can be debated about high level buffs, ds, proc dd, timer per hour/day, etc.

Hopefully we can agree either that live or emu, its still not intended for a level 1 player to wipe a zone of level 70 mobs. That just gets stupid.

High level players love their special spells and buffs such as regen, hp, ds, procing. Power leveling is fun, and players will find every avenue to make their leveling go faster. Obviously it will be difficult to regulate all the classes and their special buffs from casting on low level players (Unless I find some new methods which I'm currently working on).

With those two points, I think a good way to control the rate at which people level up even with some of the high level buffs is to create min and max level that a player can be in certain zones. We've already had this for some zones including most of our custom zones, but since we updated the zone table a few weeks ago the exp multiplier and min level required needed to be re-edited again. I've already combed through 95% of the zones that needed to have a minimum level requirement to enter, including almost all the Planes of Power zones.

So player would still get their power level buffs, and probably killing mobs up to 20 levels higher, which is more acceptable and realistic than killing mobs that are 50-70 levels higher than yourself. It would still go very fast to gain levels, just not obnoxiously fast like 10 minutes. This would also force players to zone around a bit more which in itself takes time. This server is about time invested, even though some things will be 'easy' due to high level buffs on a low level player. I even created the custom BD armor with super HP tradeable and wearable at level 1 for this purpose of enjoying a power level. But power leveling doesn't mean instant max level in 10 minutes.

New power level zones:
I'd like to lower exp in most zones (and they already are) and increase exp rate in the custom zones (although trains still not allowed). Then we could come up with a new list of zones to power level in that have level ranges of 10 levels per zone, which higher experience rate than any other zone including higher than regular custom zones. These zones would have minimum and maximum level limits to be in.

New rank armor grind:
Maybe this list of 7 zones at 10 levels per zone can (all together) have some sort of ranked armor that players can work on. I'm not sure how the ranks would work, maybe combine 2 of same rank together to get next rank? Maybe just find a rare upgrade like the charms? Since players are going to do this 100 times to get RoA 100 then it can be paced at getting full suit by time you get RoA 100. It'll be something to work towards, looting stuff to get more HP gear, while doing your RoA 100 at the same time. If the gear was good enough, then I'd have to allow even maxed out veterans to delevel themselves to attempt this armor. Its just an idea to make the re-leveling to 70 x 100 a bit more fun with more rewards, keeping the people doing RoA in certain zones for 10 levels per zone, faster exp than any other zone, etc.

Feel free to tell me if you hate the idea, or would modify it in a certain way to make it better. This might be better than going after all the classes and buffs. My goal is to make RoA about 45 - 90 minutes per rank depending if your solo or got high level friends in a way that is fun but also doesn't nerf too many classes.

[Xalle]

I think a system similar to how live originally had its 'newbie' gear back in PoP days.

There would be 3-5 (depending on the armor slot) random items that would drop in the said zone.

Collect and combine with the pattern to make the piece of armor.  Kind of similar to qvic but a bit more complex since you'll definitely have the time to build that set.

It would be cool if the pieces of gear were maybe "offset" items so they wouldnt over lap with the crafters guild armor.  (Earrings / necklace / belt / rings / etc)

[Strix]

New power level zones

Hunter, that seems like it would work way better than putting a timer on the runs.  It keeps all the spell lines as they are and ensures that people aren't going from 1 to 70 in 10 mins (agree that's just stupid).  Great concept

The exp modifier also sounds like a good way to encourage people to use the custom zones over the non-custom.  I wonder if all the high end non-custom zones should be modified slightly also with a level entry requirment to ensure people aren't just bypassing the intended game design?


New rank armor grind
Sounds interesting.  In the teired amour scale, where would this armour sit for values like hps etc?

It would be cool if this could be an alternative method of making the BD armour (as a compendium to the crafter's guild method).  Rank 100 Armour = current end level BD armour stats.  Armour moves in stats every 10 ranks.

Just a thought

[Fugitive]

Daily cap isn't cool.

Timer sounds neat and easier fix


Still honestly asking 100hr grind for a subpar item is questionable. Glad I'm done...

[deamel]

another way to see us, the casual player, the high end game getting almost out of reach. when not all but most of the hardcore player dont realy mind those change cause they already have thier ROA.

[Undeterred]

I'm really upset at the changes to ROA... I feel screwing with the ROA was not a good move...

We were fine when it was set to 100... and the rest of us can catch up...

No let's change it to 500 and make it tougher to catch up... I created an instance of Fire to avoid the crowds (20k is not that cheap for a player struggling to pay for strike augs)

Just to find out I can't even enter the zone anymore at level 47...

Had we kept it at 100 we wouldn't be having these stupid issues with server lag

And now talk about limiting buffs... Strats about fast ROA runs have been on the boards for over a year, if this was such a concern, why wasn't this done ages ago... Now all of a sudden it's an exploit, really...

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