Epic Weapons 8.0+

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[Felony]

Bring in the ranged items, the server needs to progress past a single ranged item.

Increase the stats on the scepter, reasons given by Marxist

I agree. Options are nice to have.

[marxist]

^ I agree, better idea.

[hateborne]

I'm against there being a ranged item with the money and time spent on sceptres. Also thinking the healing buff on druid/shaman item is too high.

Clerics get 400%, druid/shaman are stuck at 100%. 200-250% is reasonable replacement for Focus of Healing for them.

Bring in the ranged items, the server needs to progress past a single ranged item.

Increase the stats on the scepter, reasons given by Marxist

I agree. Options are nice to have.

That's the point of something like this. T8 may have something amazing that you prefer to keep until T10. T9 may have a better replacement. With uneven and scattered drops, the actual items chosen/used can vary from tier to tier. I like options. Right now, the option is KEEP GRINDING.




-Hate

[zefirus]

Change Enchanter epic from a pet to an uber group buff: Maybe vampiric thunder/vampiric haste/masked strength and KOE combined... perhaps t8 +?

Sweetchuck will thank you

[hateborne]

Change Enchanter epic from a pet to an uber group buff: Maybe vampiric thunder/vampiric haste/masked strength and KOE combined... perhaps t8 +?

Sweetchuck will thank you

Pet is broken due to source at the moment, but whatever. The pet is rather fun and fairly powerful when not broken.



Any other comments/complaints about the epics suggested? Per a discussion with Blurring, I did miss a few class combinations (such as monk/bst 1h and 2hb item).




-Hate

[zefirus]

Just so much buffing required in t9.. Pets are fun, but having to rebuff all the time single target is not.  I was just thinking that enchanter with über buff would be more like how they were in live.

[Felony]

Just so much buffing required in t9.. Pets are fun, but having to rebuff all the time single target is not.  I was just thinking that enchanter with über buff would be more like how they were in live.

Along the line of what I am quoting here. Would be something to consider doing what a few other custom servers have done. Merge buffs together.
So instead of having to cast 2 or 3 single/group buffs we cast one that has all the effects on it. Increase the mana cost and adjust cast/recast timers to be balanced.
That would help with rebuffing for everyone, melee/casters/pets.

Considering how much work it could be, I would volunteer to assist with it if it is decided to be a valid option and hate wants the help.

[hateborne]

Just so much buffing required in t9.. Pets are fun, but having to rebuff all the time single target is not.  I was just thinking that enchanter with über buff would be more like how they were in live.

Just so much buffing required in t9.. Pets are fun, but having to rebuff all the time single target is not.  I was just thinking that enchanter with über buff would be more like how they were in live.

Along the line of what I am quoting here. Would be something to consider doing what a few other custom servers have done. Merge buffs together.
So instead of having to cast 2 or 3 single/group buffs we cast one that has all the effects on it. Increase the mana cost and adjust cast/recast timers to be balanced.
That would help with rebuffing for everyone, melee/casters/pets.

Considering how much work it could be, I would volunteer to assist with it if it is decided to be a valid option and hate wants the help.

We're straying a bit from the intended topic. It is possible to allow something like this to be researched or unlocked, but it belongs in another topic.  I could literally write up the spells to do it in under 10 minutes. Just...again...off topic. :-)


-Hate

[Expletus]

New druid epic clicky effect. For realz !

[Blurring]

I think both ideas posted by Hunter and Hateborne are great.

Ideally what I'd like to see is a combination of both ideas.

--Epic weapon drops follow Hateborne's idea where each tier sees 5-10~ different weapons/shields/range items drop, each usable by various classes.

--Aug slots work the way Hateborne has them laid out but in addition to these are extra aug slots where 1-all of Hunter's ranked augs would go.

I think this would allow for the greatest amount of customization and also randomness old-timey EQ fun. The weapon drops would be quite rare and as Hate described there would be many different upgrade routes to consider for each class. Especially as more tiers are released and the pool of weapons to choose from grows. At the same time players could also choose who they wanted to spend extra time on specifically to level up the ranked augs for, deciding what would best complement the weapon choices they had made and their overall strategy.


Whichever way it ends up going I think of course the class specific augs/effects are a must. Here are my thoughts on the class specific upgrades for T8 proposed by Hateborne:

[Bard]
Any reason the Mana regen component sees no increase? 6.0 -> 7.0 went from 20k to 24k, so 28k seems logical for T8.

[Cleric]
Vivificate of the Masses III is a base improvement of 20k over vII which I believe represents an increase in actual heal by 260k (given UC2 and Amplify Healing). This seems reasonable given the amazing heal spell that drops in T8 already.

[Paladin]
I think the group heal component of paladin's needs to be seriously looked at for T8 and T9. The Masses III upgrade I think is fine, but the combat heal proc has fallen way behind. HP values have exploded and npc damage has continued to reflect that, but paladin's healing upgrades have not. In addition to this the delay cap significantly lowered the number of heal procs going off, and I don't think the proc was ever upgraded to make up for that.

The heal proc base upgrade for T7 -> T8 is  2160 HP's. With UC2 and Focus of Healing this means an upgrade of 21,600 HP's. The total proc is a 93.6K heal. Tanks in these tiers are typically pushing multi million HP's so we are talking about a 2-5% heal that procs much slower than ever before. For me in T9 the pally would have to proc more than 10 times with the slow delay to heal just ONE hit from a trash mob; the heal is essentially useless.

I'm not sure if this is the direction the class is intended to go in, and if it is, I can certainly understand that. All the new healing provided by druids, shamans, rangers, misc. runes, and cleric upgrades are awesome and I would prefer to have those if it came down to it. But to me the paladin's role as a healer is still far below where I believe it should be. If the epic heal will stay as proposed I ask that you consider a major increase in their heal spells (in whichever tier they start dropping upgrades again).

(Another thing I just noticed, the 2H aug still has the 7.0 combat heal proc attached, hoping this is an oversight and it's meant to have the same combat heal as 1HS aug. If not, what I said earlier x2, hehe)

[Ranger]
1hs Aug has no effect and I see the 7.0 still has the 6.0 pet as effect. Are we scrapping ranger pets here?

[Shaman]
I love combat shaman with vicious disempower and am very happy to see any upgrade to this component!

On a similar note to paladin heals however, I think the HP buff of the shaman epics have failed to respond to the exploding HP/dmg rates. The shaman epic buff used to be just that, epic, but that hasn't been the case for some time. On your typical tanks in this tier it represents a 3-6% increase in hit points. Not even a single extra hit from a trash mob in many cases. I would love to see this value doubled or even tripled from the proposed value of 125K.

[Shadowknight]
The DT click needs to be much higher in my opinion.

190,000 damage base with a UC2 becomes 950,000 damage every minute. Or 15.8K extra DPS assuming you can cast it every minute. 15k DPS is what my warrior parsed at using anger 4 augs in HoH years ago, it's a trivial amount in T8.



Alright those are my initial thoughts, thanks for reading and hope they make sense. If these are way off just ignore them, any upgrade is a good upgrade!

[hateborne]

[Bard]
Any reason the Mana regen component sees no increase? 6.0 -> 7.0 went from 20k to 24k, so 28k seems logical for T8.

The bards are screwy. I am going to revisit them eventually. Currently, it scales unnaturally. In example: Health (heal/dmg), Mana, and sometimes AC are multiplied by 62-63 times when using Epic 3.0+ and UCv1. Going to enforce some max_val limits to keep it in check.

[Paladin]
I think the group heal component of paladin's needs to be seriously looked at for T8 and T9. The Masses III upgrade I think is fine, but the combat heal proc has fallen way behind. HP values have exploded and npc damage has continued to reflect that, but paladin's healing upgrades have not. In addition to this the delay cap significantly lowered the number of heal procs going off, and I don't think the proc was ever upgraded to make up for that.

The heal proc base upgrade for T7 -> T8 is  2160 HP's. With UC2 and Focus of Healing this means an upgrade of 21,600 HP's. The total proc is a 93.6K heal. Tanks in these tiers are typically pushing multi million HP's so we are talking about a 2-5% heal that procs much slower than ever before. For me in T9 the pally would have to proc more than 10 times with the slow delay to heal just ONE hit from a trash mob; the heal is essentially useless.

I'm not sure if this is the direction the class is intended to go in, and if it is, I can certainly understand that. All the new healing provided by druids, shamans, rangers, misc. runes, and cleric upgrades are awesome and I would prefer to have those if it came down to it. But to me the paladin's role as a healer is still far below where I believe it should be. If the epic heal will stay as proposed I ask that you consider a major increase in their heal spells (in whichever tier they start dropping upgrades again).

(Another thing I just noticed, the 2H aug still has the 7.0 combat heal proc attached, hoping this is an oversight and it's meant to have the same combat heal as 1HS aug. If not, what I said earlier x2, hehe)

Chunka had mentioned this same thing last night. He was making mention that it was due to nerfs, but I was of the mindset that the EXPLODING hp values.

[Ranger]
1hs Aug has no effect and I see the 7.0 still has the 6.0 pet as effect. Are we scrapping ranger pets here?

I would like to get rid of the pet as it creates another thing to micromanage and I was not found of a multi-million hp pet that dies in two hits.

[Shaman]
I love combat shaman with vicious disempower and am very happy to see any upgrade to this component!

On a similar note to paladin heals however, I think the HP buff of the shaman epics have failed to respond to the exploding HP/dmg rates. The shaman epic buff used to be just that, epic, but that hasn't been the case for some time. On your typical tanks in this tier it represents a 3-6% increase in hit points. Not even a single extra hit from a trash mob in many cases. I would love to see this value doubled or even tripled from the proposed value of 125K.

Noted, I'll look in to it for an appropriate value.

[Shadowknight]
The DT click needs to be much higher in my opinion.

190,000 damage base with a UC2 becomes 950,000 damage every minute. Or 15.8K extra DPS assuming you can cast it every minute. 15k DPS is what my warrior parsed at using anger 4 augs in HoH years ago, it's a trivial amount in T8.

Alright those are my initial thoughts, thanks for reading and hope they make sense. If these are way off just ignore them, any upgrade is a good upgrade!

Paladins and SKs are being looked at currently.  Sit tight on that one. :-D




-Hate

[Kwai]

I like the Aug idea.  Nothing better than crafting your own specific slant to the classes.  I like the custom weapon idea so every member of the class can have a varied appearance. 

To add my tuppence:

  These will become character defining weapons that will require many hours to improve and as such should not be relegated to rare drops.  While I do not mean everyone has one given to them at the front door I also don't want to wade through countless hours of grind on the epic dropping mob only to find another hand to hand weapon.  Some ideas to support that plan would be

  - Add a vanilla epic drop to Eashen (or Vulak if Eashen is deemed too fast)
  - An epic swap mob at zone in when you can turn the hand to hand into a useable weapon.
  - Add an Aug drop chance to each T8 named.  If there are 3 Aug slots per epic then 3 Aug drops per clear should be the chance. 

This way you have the weapon and a chance to Aug it, and start the build.  The roadblock becomes the leveling of the Augs, not the pursuit of the weapon or corresponding Augs.

One other idea that may have some play depending on live vs EMU code capabilities... Evolving item mechanics were coded many gens ago and seem to fit this current epic plan nicely. 

[Chunka]

The heal proc base upgrade for T7 -> T8 is  2160 HP's. With UC2 and Focus of Healing this means an upgrade of 21,600 HP's. The total proc is a 93.6K heal. Tanks in these tiers are typically pushing multi million HP's so we are talking about a 2-5% heal that procs much slower than ever before. For me in T9 the pally would have to proc more than 10 times with the slow delay to heal just ONE hit from a trash mob; the heal is essentially useless.

Thank you, B, for putting into numbers what those of us with pallies have already seen! This also matches a discussion Hate and I had the other day, regarding the "role" of the knight classes. Pallies in most groups were developed in that spot for ONE role: healer. Right now they are the lowest on the totem as far as healers, behind even a shaman. Its to the point that the character who pretty much was my main, Brickhouse, is almost never logged in.....I cant sacrifice the group slot on him, not when a cleric, druid or shaman does it so, so much better! And DPS? Even with UC and strike augs my pally cant out dps my druid, and the druid heals better overall.

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