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[zomgDanyelle]

Because warriors would then want some of the knight classes spells. That would be blending the classes together too much. If you give stonewall to knight classes you may as well give it to bards and monks too. And then you would need to give wars, bards and knights innerflame. Stonewall is a warrior ability and should remain so imo.

This

Class blending is one of the major reasons why custom Emu servers fail (The other reason being the lack of spell scaling along with content which causes casters to rot and die), it throws the classes off balance and contrary to popular belief without all the classes, even the pallys, EQ cannot exist. When one class has other classes primary abilities why play the original class? If EVERY class were to be given Stonewall, Innerflame, Dual Wielding, Bow expertise, Bard songs, Mage/Necro/Beast pets (you choose which to summon), Cleric heals, shaman buffs, Feign Death, CoTH blah blah blah you get the point, were that to happen everyone would just play Warrior because it's a default, it wears plate and hey they have the same shit everyone else does now. Thats why i didn't like that The Hidden Forest has CoTH clickies, i don't give a crap how many boxers there are with CoTH clickies who the hell is gonna play a mage?

No it's bad enough we have the spell rot issue here, we don't need the cross-class issue as well.

[talanos]

I do understand what you are saying, and like the logic from it. However, with the knight classes not having stonewall there is pretty much no way they are going to be able to compete with warriors unless they are given about 25% more hp (guestimate) than warriors. If that happen, can you imagine the uproar. These are just some of the examples I was refering to with practicality and fundamental changes.

Okay, I get it now thanks to you and Danyelle.  Basically, unlike some other MMOs with tanks, optimal endgame EQ tanking basically equates to Stonewall, which basically means that if you distribute that ability, you end up with class dilution.

You've convinced me.  I would now support a situation in which the knights were more dps than warriors to make up for the unavoidable gap in tanking ability, as long as the chain/leather/cloth dps classes were still above knights, since at least knights can tank better than them.

[Eliseus]

More PLD/SK shields with OP AC

[Xiggie | Stone]

More PLD/SK shields with OP AC

When I was in OOS we started wondering why ac seemed to stop at Tacvi. What I heard was that after ac reaches a certain point you become nearly invincible. It follows the same principle behind why defense was dropped from 400 to 272(?) (cant remember the exact number).

[Eliseus]

Ahh dang, that sucks then

[Xiggie | Stone]

Giving knight classes the dd proc from the hate aug would not put the knight classes at the current dps of warriors, (although I think warriors should loose the dd in the hate aug). They only have one sword so I am guessing roughly half the procs that warriors currently do. Hopefully this would put them a little above what warriors do but below what monks/rogues/rangers do. If not, then adjust the dd component accordingly. Like I said increasing knight dps would make me want one in my group. Giving them a dps that is less than but somewhat comparable to monk/rogue/ranger would make the spell benefits worth having.

[sohami]

IMHO and really very surprising to me the elephant in the room is all monk epics have + Flying kick damage which is a great idea, however on neither of the Epics (1.5, 2.0, 2.5, or 3.0) does the +FK damage actually work.

Huge reason why I wanted to work for 3.0 for my monk was the "+1500 FK damage" way exciting. To have an attack that actually is worth clicking.

[swamphy]

Thanks for all the warrior and hybrid class info. Now about monks...

The stun effect is fun to use in old world. I was in GrowthPlane last night picking on Tunare. Most of the big named there are immune to stun, but it was fun to blast the adds who normally self heal like mad. They basically stand there while they get pummeled to death.

I'll also add about monks... the DPS can spike nicely. I was in qvic shadowing a friends full bot group. Decided to try for a KS. I turned on all my discs + kicks + epic on a named pull and I KSed a group with warrior/ranger/ranger/cleric/cleric/something.  I had zero buffs at the time as well. (I'm sure his rangers were not in high dps mode and ten other excuses).

Still, my monk walked taller that night.

[sohami]

i don't know what the 4.0 monk epic effect actually does (if its just another mend ability, thats lame), we're just standard DPS class with OK-tanking ability pre-qvic.

complaint list (bare in mind, i still love my monk-main and will keep him so, these really arent that bad)

1. +FK damage does not work whatsoever
2. reduce timer on innerflame does not work whatsoever
3. DD on our epic is nothing to write home about. at all
4. our uniqueness is a DPS class slowly dissipates after you upgrade celestial fists

a perfect world, we'd fix 1, 2, 3, and with item 4 it would require some more thought, like making our dps approach unique, still in the same pocket we are (not the best, but definitely not the worst), but staying ahead of all other classes in weapon ratio with 1hb/our fists and/or utility. Just an idea.

[Reed]

Monks, as is, are not terrible. 2nd or 3rd choice for DPS over all. Top being Ranger, then toss up between Rogue and Monk after that.

[swamphy]

I agree.

I won't ask for any extra effects or stunts... just make the ones we have work!

[Reed]

tou'che

[Razormaw]

Urg I had no idea our epic was so useless. I, too, was eager for the +1500 FK or whatever.

Starting to think more and more that it's time to roll a warrior/mage. I'm 2.0'd and can barely solo trash in LDoN. Meaning I can solo 1-2 at a time on a good day, but 3 is death.

Just feels wrong to me. Then again, I haven't RoAd or upgraded my charm yet, which are contributing factors I suppose. But with max defensive AAs I shouldn't be struggling to kill light blue mobs.

At least, not when pet classes can pull an entire LDoN floor and have it dead in 20 seconds in the same gear/progression as me.

[Reed]

Urg I had no idea our epic was so useless. I, too, was eager for the +1500 FK or whatever.

Starting to think more and more that it's time to roll a warrior/mage. I'm 2.0'd and can barely solo trash in LDoN. Meaning I can solo 1-2 at a time on a good day, but 3 is death.

Just feels wrong to me. Then again, I haven't RoAd or upgraded my charm yet, which are contributing factors I suppose. But with max defensive AAs I shouldn't be struggling to kill light blue mobs.

At least, not when pet classes can pull an entire LDoN floor and have it dead in 20 seconds in the same gear/progression as me.

Well dont jump on the bandwagon of Monk bashing just yet.

Monks are pretty solid characters closer to end game. Their 3.0's are pretty good, like other melee epics. Dont quit a character at 2.0 because it gets a little  rough

two 3.0's will give you +2000hp regen per 6 second. the pet classes your are seeing training the zone and tanking it all are over geared for the content.

Same could be said about warriors too. The ones you see training the whole zone and blasting with anger augs are completely over geared for the zone, just used to make epic questing faster/ easier

[Razormaw]

I love Monk too much to quit it. It's just hard to progress more because I'm the kind of person that hates to bother people for help. I feel guilty and worry that they think I'm just a selfish mooch. It's stupid, I know.

I'll keep slugging away at it. I know a few people that have helped me get where I am were 3.0 monks and they seemed to tear through the content. Then again this was 1.5 and 2.0 stuff, where I guess almost any class would tear it up

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