DPS Comparisons and Parses

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[gagem]

I cant agree more.  I constantly say in /ooc to stop bitching about little things cause that's what causes the BIG nerfs and people quitting etc.....this is one of those things that will screw everyone over in the end (just like nerfing the UW did)

Sorry, but the UW alignment wasn't a nerf it was beyond broken the way it stood.. (it didn't screw one person over other then hurting someones feelings)

What is pushing people away now is watching all the training wheels and daily trophies for logging in.

Takes 1 day to farm a UCv1
Takes 1 day to farm a UCv2
Can do T5 in <3 days,
Plat is god abundant,
Everyone feels they are fully entitled to see end game no matter what gear they are ie Im flagged there for I should be able to kill any and everything period
Most can farm a UW1-9 faster then they can farm a Hatestomp 1 or 2

Some players are full T9 in less then 1 month from scratch without help inside of game from peers..(with UCv3 spotting team)




apologies to OP for derail just my pennies

This is flat out wrong on all levels and coming from a guy who has been in the end game a little too long if you ask me. This server has a problem with end game guys complaining non stop, not newbies complaining. This is a perfect example of it - sorry to say. This is all blatantly untrue ask anyone who isn't T9.

Try bringing up a new batch of characters truly from scratch before you go on a rant like this Fugi.

Don't feed the Troll, his numbers  are taken to the extreme to point at a point... Things are better, and in some cases that may translate to easier...  It's just too easy to point at the "old timers" and joke about them walking uphill both ways in the snow etc.  For better or worse its not the same server at "lower tiers" that it was back when Fugi etc ran them.  They had it tougher in some cases and easier in others (T5 still sucks, probably always will, and should).

If you have put in more time great.  But the addition of more content is a change also, one that was welcomed.  If people are willing to point out a dps discrepancy between classes and get help with parsing to prove it (for example) and that leads to a change then great.  We the next wave, that have not quit yet, thank you for EZ evolution.
Back on topic please

[warrior5]

True.

However, I'm getting really tired of hearing end game folk constantly complain about newbies and QQ. I'm sure I'm not the only one. These guys don't realize the real QQ is coming from them, and everyone who isn't T9 knows it. Maybe this server needs some new blood and a few less cranky old geezers.

"It's easier for you to get UCv1 omfg I'm quitting!"

Newsflash, anyone who is already T9 isn't quitting... they obviously enjoy the server enough to get to T9, and the devs do a great job of adding new content. We should be more worried about not gaining new players as they become disgruntled by all the end game whining.

[Rent Due]

Lets see how I can put this in another way,

What Fugi is saying is basically true, to a point.

As I am not quite as old as him in terms of server age I can tell you that quests such as UC1 are far, far easier now than they were just a year ago. With the changes such as increased drop rates we saw things getting easier, then ToFS was added, again we saw things getting easier, now though you have daily missions that makes it possible to never even visit the zone we did our UC1's in.

UC1 used to be Ldon up to 25's then HOH till your eyes bleed getting your V2's. I still remember the feeling of how cool it was to be able to "pull the room" in HoH, however I mostly went mob to mob. If you go do Ldon and HoH for the day you will see that the progression rate is much, much slower than going to do the daily missions.

Now, granted for your very first UC1's you wont be able to use ToFS or Daily missions, however I am sure by the time you get a few done you will be able to use some of these. And now your back flagging is simple. Whereas, you used to have to go back flag with the same method you got your first one with, Ldon and HoH.

So yes, in a lot of regards the game has been made easier for progression.

The problem with being new, and I used to have this problem bad is you see all the treats at the end of the game and want them, even just a small taste of them. There are a great number of us "older" players that give away, or sell for a very small "tip" the end game armor/gear. /auction WTS t8 monk arms for 200k! or even T9 weapons/9.0 books which are practically given away at this point due to the high volume of rot.

as far as this thread is concerned, people want casters to do more. More damage, more defense, more, more.

Trust me when I tell you that T9, end game is very boring. There is nothing to do at all except back flag more toons you wont play, farm essences for UW's, work on your Ring of the Ages, xp mask or Earring of the Ages quests. Boring, Boring and more Boring.

And, the people that have quit, have quit for one of two reasons, one, they just simply are not interested in boring any longer or two, they really do feel the server has gotten so easy to progress that they are pissed. They are mad that they had to walk uphill in the snow while others now walk on flat land to get to the same place they are.

It takes us "old timers" less than 2 weeks to get a character from 0-78, including the goods. That just was not possible a year ago. And, sometimes we even select people to "help" along, by help I mean, do it for them. The only requirements usually are all the essences/cash/GSoA/aa crystals that drop along the way. From my experience, and knowing the top level people that I know, we tend to pick people that are willing to work for it and are less vocal.

I have tried my best to steer clear of this thread because I knew this was going to turn into a mudslinging party. It was born of mud in ooc and it is mud here now.

I assure you that class balancing is a long, butthurt procedure that is a waste of our development time. Everyone will feel the effects of "balancing". Not all classes are equal, and imho a mage should not do the damage a monk does. I have both classes, I use them for completely different things and the mage is not on my bench for her amazing DPS. And when were enchanters ever known for their damage ability? The only class that lays claim to spell casting damage is really only the wizard. Hate, our lead developer played a wizard, played 3 as a matter of fact. I think he pretty much knows the class and what they should and should not be doing in the game.

glaring game mechanic problems are something we should be bringing to Hate's plate, new content ideas, new quest ideas, not this stuff.

imagine if everyone involved in this thread put this much passion into writing a quest, front to end and presented it to Hate and Love. Or, explored our world for a new T10, T11, mini zones and presented a concept idea for their findings to our developers. imagine where we could be right now instead of slinging mud and turning into yet another new vs old thread fight

just some words, from what some people consider an "old timer", yet I am not that old and not that timer

[Darpey]

"Takes 1 day to farm a UCv1
Takes 1 day to farm a UCv2
Can do T5 in <3 days,
Plat is god abundant,
Most can farm a UW1-9 faster then they can farm a Hatestomp 1 or 2

Some players are full T9 in less then 1 month from scratch without help inside of game from peers..(with UCv3 spotting team)"

I don't know that I can agree with any of these statements, seems like a pretty serious hyperbole.

However, the most fun moments I have had on EZ Server were when I sucked the most relative to the content.

* Breaking into potimea and having epic 20 minute boss fights
* T5 in general (all the months of it)
* Finally getting my hohonora flag and getting stomped into the ground by pulling more than 1 mob
* Finally being able to kill Kronos (back when BP was the flag, and there was only ONE real Kronos)
etc...

There's a lot to be said for enjoying the slow long ride - and in my mind that's one thing that sets EZ (ironically from the sound of the name) apart from other games... is that it's slow and hard (TWSS). Sounds like a bad thing, but the "grind" is a good thing in my mind, when it's done right.

Also, R.I.P. parsing thread :/

[Ponzi]

Beautifully put, Rent.

And for the record, the most fun to be had on this server is grabbing some random person and just running them through content. Its more fun to get new shiny things for other people than to even get them for yourself.

The real beauty of EZ, from the earlier days (which i was a part of) until now is that every single bit of content offered gives a scenario in which a stronger player has every incentive in the world to help a weaker one:

Grinding HOH for tokens? bring someone along for pages and/or v2 charms! Need gmajors n' minors? Find someone in ooc who needs armor and weapons and make it feel like a xmas pinata! Need abyss essences for your UW? Prepare to be the most popular dude on the server! Etc. Etc.

The bottom line is this server offers unlimited resources and zero reason to deprive others of acquiring things. Its what truly brings us back for more, and brings out the best in our community. Take p99, on the other hand. The biggest issue is limited resources and depriving others is the only real way to better yourself. Which is why on there you find yourself surrounded by angry virgins with batphones and rotations and an unquenchable desire to prove once and for all why instanced raiding became the welcomed and accepted norm the second the concept was conceived. Scarcity of resources brings out a survival of the angriest, which just isnt much fun.

On EZ its all warm fuzzies and brotherhood. And while we make fun of each other in /ooc, I've never been part of a more tight knit community who go out of their way to not just help out buddies, but anyone and everyone in need. I am proud to call this place home.

c'mon guys, we can get this even futher off topic if we just try!

[Rent Due]

I get no warm and fuzzy feelings in ooc............LOL

[hateborne]

Last attempt:

Keep this thread to posts related to the subject.
Keep this thread to posts related to the subject.
Keep this thread to posts related to the subject.
Keep this thread to posts related to the subject.
Keep this thread to posts related to the subject.
Keep this thread to posts related to the subject.
Keep this thread to posts related to the subject.


Thanks.

-Hate

[warrior5]

Yeah ooc is a cesspool of 15 year old /q jokes and complaining about newbie questions. Nothing warm and fuzzy about it, unfortunately. The only thing warm and fuzzy about the server is the devs, the content and the occasional friends you make.

And if I'm hearing correctly, T9s are saying they can get chars to lvl 78 in a matter of weeks.

Try doing it again without your T9 support crew. Or any support crew. The game is absolutely not easy if you haven't already beat it. As for bringing up other folks, I think that defeats the purpose, and isn't a reason to claim the server is easy. Those who do it without help are probably having more fun anyway.

Regardless, I've never had a T9 volunteer to bring my entire crew up from qvic to T9 and to spends weeks doing it... if that's actually happening this server has nicer folks than I thought.

I was here when LDON charms were the only way to get a UC too. It's much much easier now. That said, the server has evolved. The gear has changed - theres a lot more of it. Let's not whine about newbies getting x item easier anymore because the fact is, getting to T9 truly from scratch as a new player is not easy - it's incredibly *!^@(#=@! hard.

This is my last non-parse post. Apologies to you Hate for going off topic.

[zefirus]

Hate,

I will see if I can get online this evening and parse out my crew.. will pm the results. I suspect the dummy has been fixed so it wont be shot and killed in 1 round?

Would be nice if we had like a swarm dummy with like 10 targets... I know my enchanter is mostly support but I do fire off gravity flux a lot.

[Fugitive]

HB needs to see a lot of Cloth DPS too, all varieties

[aythena]

Hate,

I will see if I can get online this evening and parse out my crew.. will pm the results. I suspect the dummy has been fixed so it wont be shot and killed in 1 round?

Would be nice if we had like a swarm dummy with like 10 targets... I know my enchanter is mostly support but I do fire off gravity flux a lot.

Insanity and breathless are higher damage faster cast nuke versus gravity flux just as a side note and tip.

[spuddson]

Had a little play with lemonpie

Passive dps ie pet attack and go have a smoke pet got 2 mill dps

with chain casting T Victory i got DPS to 2.6 mill

Lemon has mana neck 9 and UW Zweigerthingie 10 in bag with a crystal assalt blade

[Darpey]

Parse Summary

DPS shown in millions

Warbash (UC1, Strike 9 x1)
Rogue 0.47
Monk 0.44
Ranger 0.39
Beastlord 0.36 (Pet: 0.12) (TOTAL: 0.48)
Bard: 0.35

Rymo (UW11, UC3)
War 6.74 (EoBA 50)
Pal 2.82
Ber 5.35
Rog 6.65 (EoBA 50)
Monk 5.35
Ranger 3.99

Rent (UC2, max strike/neck)
Wiz: 0.40
Mage: 0.91

Warrior5
War: 0.48 (Anger 5x3, 6x1 ~ UC1 MoF)
Monk: 0.45 (NS5x2 ~ S50 ~ MoF)
Monk: 0.17 (NS5x2 ~ MoF)
Ranger: 0.16 (MoF)
Berserker: 0.09 (MoF)
Bard: 0.02 (BU)
Berserker: 0.011 (BU)
Enchanter: 0.004 (CD)
Wizard:  0.004 (CD)
Cleric: 0.0009 (IG)

Darpey (UC2, max strike)
War: 5.75 (UW10, UC3, HS4)
Rogue: 2.14
Monk: 1.99
Berserker: 1.63
Bard: 1.52
Paladin: 0.87

Aythena
Rogue: 3.04 (NS10x2, UC2)
Monk: 2.78 (NS10x2, UC2)
Berserker: 1.51 (FS10x1, UC2)
Necromancer: 1.11 (Death 3)
Mage: 0.86 (Mana Neck 10, UC2)
Bard: 0.53 (UC1)
Enchanter: 0.45 (Mana Neck 10, UC1)
Druid: 0.34 (UC1)
Paladin: 0.34 (UC1)
Paladin: 0.29 (UC1)
Shaman: 0.26 (UC1)
Warrior: 1.45 (UW8, UC2)

[Peign]

Id be very happy to help with this, ive got a t9 9.0 of every class, all at least UC1, but by there will be no knee jerk stuff you mean we can all discuss things normally kinda how we all do, and our opinions will matter? or we parse then oh well i wanna try this way so yeah youll all need to re make at least 6 new chars cause im destroying 3 key classes that all groups are based on. I dont mind getting rid of OP things, but really, whens the last time we got some good ass boosts? id like to see some good boosting instead of some good nerfing.

also, imo,  casters are not usefull because  when im clearing trash, i pull 10 mobs, i click assist, my melee assist me, then my wizard begins to cast a spell, that spell is done casting when i have about 5 mobs left to kill, (ie wizard spell never even landed)

even necro death 1, 2 , and 3, on a uc2 necro, using epidimic on a stupid big pull, not worth using, for a casters damage to matter it has to be upped to such a higher dmg that its gonna look scary. and you know what, if you try upping their dmg, and its SUPER overpowered, dang, a day of super high wizard dps. just revert the dmg if its taken to high, no big deal.

If you like your DPS, you can keep your DPS.

[gagem]

This is more of a question than a solution/patch/fix for caster dps.  How hard is it to frontload the caster dd's like the strike aug dmg is currently?  By this I mean have a 0.0 casting time spell with the same spell lockout time as the max melee strike speed.  At this point the /twist 1 option in your /bct attack button would at least give an even chance for the casters to land a hit along with the melee that all open up on the pull once your tank has it in position.

I only ask because it seems to me (and I could easy be wrong) that mechanic's wise the casters will stay benched for everything but boss fights and at that point there is no point in having them for anything other than buff bots.  If that's acceptable then fine, we will adjust.  If not and you are looking at balancing (ish) the USABLE dps of dps classes then maybe the cast timing calc in the spells themselves is worth looking at.  Pets do dps, and if that dps makes up the disparity great, its up to the players to decide if that dps is worth the hassle of using or not.

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