Issues with VT/VT2

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[barrettd04]

It's been a while, but am I mistaken in thinking VT affects strike aug dmg?  As in increasing it?  I noticed no effect with either VT or VT2 on any of my toons strike augs.   Was it changed to not affect strike augs somewhere down the line? Did it EVER affect strike augs?  Just wondering if I'm going insane.  Thx! 

[hateborne]

It originally did not affect strike augs as it only affected cast spells of the 'magic' resist type. With last source update, procs were treated as casts, so these effects gained the effects of VT/VT2. I added a min cast time requirement to it last night upon finding this out. It was originally intended (from what I can guesstimate on how it worked for years) is that it was a magic damage bonus for cast spells.

I'll post full update thread later this evening. Working up T10 but finding/fixing bugs or inconsistencies along the way.


-Hate

[Ponzi]

This thread isnt locked yet? I'll start.

1 . ) congrats, you've crippled the whole server, but at least we've finally found a way to nerf those pesky zerker armies.

2. ) This Vt ?*cough* adjustment would be far more meaningful if we got rid of all caster weaps and such post t4. Thats the last skirt-wearer the majority of us were hanging on to. It'd save a little on database wear and tear.

3. ) The Rymo prototype of a single 6man all UW group is now officially the server standard, although you could argue it was leaning that way beforehand anyways.

4. ) Can we ditch t9 spells entirely now and add something else in its place?

5. ) Anyone good with facebook? Need someone still in touch with all the people who went caster heavy and quit over the last 3 years, they really should be here for their moment of vindication.

6. ) What is an enchanter still used for now? GOA? Irrational irritation is useful against exactly one mob : Floating Eye. Assuming you've figured out Anger IVs are the devil and just speed up aggro rollover if you have more than 1 equipped. Nice that there are ninja clicks to help with that.. oh wait.. forgot about the Gem Collector ADJUSTMENT. GL getting one from Svartmane without already having a ninja click.

6b. ) Blast of Vulnerability? Was useful, now with the Skin like Drake ADJUSTMENT those druid mobs are laughable now in t5/t6 etc. What else do they cast again? I guess we can finally consider them ghetto wizards with a funky DOT nuke who have a pet that rocks if the enchanter is tanking and you've buried countless resources on necks and wasted UC2/3s on em.

7. ) totally off topic -- Gluttony is now the Black Priest in t7 all over again. UWXI warrior with 45 earring and i'm taking pee breaks killing gluttony. Remember when Black Priest was essentially unkillable for months after someone tinkered with the spell files? It's starting again.. ok i lied its not totally off topic.

In all seriousness, we love you Hate. We want you to do good things. Its why we tease you about wizards and beastlords and such. Its not to be pesky, its just our passive - aggressive way of constantly reminding about the things on the server no one gives a rip about that we would be saddened to hear you were wasting your unpaid-yet-valuable time on. Its ok there are useless classes and and spells and gear and things.. People have to completely ignore /ooc and be functionally illiterate in order to get a useless class far on this server without being warned thoroughly about certain class uselessness. EQ players are inherently smart, thats why most /ooc and thread question revolve around class suggestions.. They know this isnt real EQ and want to garner information.

 Give them some credit. Don't do this. The only justification FOR doing this is its a 5 year mistake that made people a bit too powerful. AND THE ENTIRE TIER SYSTEM WAS DESIGNED WITH THIS KNOWLEDGED AND TUNED TO ITS RESULTING DPS.

The last time we went down this road was the Ultimate weapon *cough* Enhancement and that was 100% a $#!+ sandwich that we ate with minimal fuss and a ton of constructive feedback. What did we garner out of that delicious sandwich? The realization that everyone was going to make 1-10 UWs anyways and it's 110% impossible to balance content between UW haves and UW have nots in higher tiers. Something we pointed out along the way.

Put VT back how it was.  The goodwill we garnered during the UW enhancement experience is *more than enough* to justify not doing this now. The other option is to personally apologize to every one who's made an enchanter in the last 6 months off of /ooc recommendations that its the only skirt-wearer worth rolling. for heavens sakes, you enhanced the only caster we bothered chasing t9 wisps and snakes for. You destroyed the only caster we use, and in the sake of ... increasing caster dps by decreasing melee dps?

Just reread that last paragraph. that sound you hear in the background is hundreds of people banging their heads on their computer desks in unison. We love you. We love the server. We respect your time and the thankless position  you are constantly in.

Make this right, please.

[Kruciel]

FUCK YOU! jk  

NO BUT REALLY FUCKKKKK YOU! jk  

BUT YA FUCK YOU! jk  

LOL couldn't resist. I do sorta agree about the fact chanters were the only clothy worth messing with for a long time now, and now mine will just be for show? It's just the nature of boxing though, even if casters were greatly ahead of their melee counterparts, aside from giving them a spammable massive aoe, nobody is going to bother.

[Raygan]

I guess I am just one of those wierdos with a chanter that NEVER logged them in...didn't see enough benefit from a chanters buffs before to warrant taking the time to load them in.

Of course I also have a bard (and if it wasn't for my main toon on live being a bard (Damaskus) I wouldn't load him in either) and never use songs on him...just too lazy to push the /twist hotkey lol

[balidet]

Totally off topic but.

Last few days I dusted off my chanter, druid and cleric and brought them into my 6 man group.

I now have a 8 man group after dropping  a maxed ninja striked uc3 monk from my group to make room for the cleric.

now I run this configuration.
First group is all UC3 ect ect. save the cleric (remember he has been offline for like a year)
WAR (uw11)
pally
Cleric
Zerk
Zerk
Rogue (Uw10)

Second group is UC2

CHanter
Druid

I have been playing in t9 to finish up my rogues uw11 and With the addition of the buffs from the druid and cleric I can pull twice as many mobs without the dieing.

I end up at 4.3million hps and a short term 88% stonewall on the tank of course

this allows me to get past the first few seconds of those massive over-pulls  until mobs start to die and my warrior is healing himself.


so the world has not ended and I found a way to get buy another day.


This change to dps makes me sad.

I do now know exactly what this will do to me in game but I dont understand it.

thank you for reading.

we may have to adapt yet again.

[Warbash]

It originally did not affect strike augs as it only affected cast spells of the 'magic' resist type. With last source update, procs were treated as casts, so these effects gained the effects of VT/VT2. I added a min cast time requirement to it last night upon finding this out. It was originally intended (from what I can guesstimate on how it worked for years) is that it was a magic damage bonus for cast spells.

I'll post full update thread later this evening. Working up T10 but finding/fixing bugs or inconsistencies along the way.


-Hate

Hate,
I'm not following you here, VT has always, as in the last few years boosted ninja strike augs. To say a recent source update all of a sudden allowed VT to boost strike augs seems misleading? Did it start to boost the other augs as well?

[Kruciel]

It originally did not affect strike augs as it only affected cast spells of the 'magic' resist type. With last source update, procs were treated as casts, so these effects gained the effects of VT/VT2. I added a min cast time requirement to it last night upon finding this out. It was originally intended (from what I can guesstimate on how it worked for years) is that it was a magic damage bonus for cast spells.

I'll post full update thread later this evening. Working up T10 but finding/fixing bugs or inconsistencies along the way.


-Hate

Hate,
I'm not following you here, VT has always, as in the last few years boosted ninja strike augs. To say a recent source update all of a sudden allowed VT to boost strike augs seems misleading? Did it start to boost the other augs as well?

While I have been gone for a while, the last time I played, VT and VT2 effected all strike augs, all epic procs, and all epic clicks. Literally everything my toons did was boosted by it.

[balidet]

not to be a like.... one to throw water on a good roasting thread but after logging in and doing some clearing in t9 ... I cant tell that anything has changed.../shrug seems like a non event to me

[Kruciel]

Doesn't seem to be a roasting thread, I was just stating how things were. I already replaced my chanter with another shelved toon, I'm ready to rock! 

[Phah]

not to be a like.... one to throw water on a good roasting thread but after logging in and doing some clearing in t9 ... I cant tell that anything has changed.../shrug seems like a non event to me

I envy your overpoweredness. It now takes me almost twice as long to kill t5 mobs, and normally I only have access to VT1 (unless some gentleman is mgb'ing VT2).

[Ponzi]

not to be a like.... one to throw water on a good roasting thread but after logging in and doing some clearing in t9 ... I cant tell that anything has changed.../shrug seems like a non event to me

I envy your overpoweredness. It now takes me almost twice as long to kill t5 mobs, and normally I only have access to VT1 (unless some gentleman is mgb'ing VT2).

^^
And that is exactly why I said what i said. I'm finishing up my 3rd UW. Anything short of t8 I can pull and kill one handed solo on warrior while surfing asian porn or netflix or whatnot. Outside of monks secondary ninja and the halfling ranger i rarely log in (lets face it firestrike classes don't really count) any change would handicap newer and mid-tier players drastically and the ubers hardly at all.

Most of the time i rant for the fun of it, but my reasoning is almost always in defense of the little guy who truly gets hosed on most source-changy enhancement thingies.

As for anecdotes, I remember Clevitsj (now theres an old-time name) casting vamp thunder and haste on my 4box 5 years ago so i could actualy kill HOH avatars on my own (for their purple stones). I'm not bullspitting when i say every tier on this server was built and balanced with VT acting the way it did.

Sadly, in most of these threads we hem and haw and roll around in gasoline until someone like Rymo or Chunka shows up with parses and we get real data (which is almost always the reason Hateborne makes the threads in the first place -- he wants data and parses before he makes decisions, it s a good system).. But this is a weird case. We're not going to have data to compare against, and most of our parsers are all t9'd and UW'd up the gills to where, as balidet pointed out precisely, its not going to affect us much anyways.

We are probably gonna have to wait for the middle class's threads on 'Why cant I kill Warlord anymore?' type threads to pop up, if they even do.

I could also be completely wrong in all of this, I'm not about to deny that possibility.

[Chunka]

With last source update, procs were treated as casts, so these effects gained the effects of VT/VT2.

So....last update was 3 years ago or so? Because thats how long VT has been working on procs and whatnot.

VT didnt always effect augs, and zerker epic, but has for years (three or so). I seem to recall hunter stating that the change was made (around the time changes were made to sorc effecting dots, if I recall correctly), but I could be wrong. Anyway, doesnt change strikes or zerk at all now. Also does jack for a lot of spells, according to my tests last night.

And yes, I am seeing a massive diff in T8 and T9. Thanks, GB, for pointing this out! Was wondering why my dps suddenly was so much lower....no warning on the nerf. Hopefully we'll see something either added to chanters to make them useful again, or see the VT issue fixed.

Maybe this was Hate's answer to players claim of killing mobs before casters could do dps

But, hey! On the bright side, one less buff I need to cast And possibly one less character in my "to do" list of boxes to finish UC3 and T10 flagging.

[hateborne]

Jesus tap dancing christ, instead of point out "hey, I think you're wrong, I believe it's been this way for years", everyone is screaming nerf and raging like goddamned children.

I'll undo this, as it was a misunderstanding. I'm locking this thread before I ban anyone.


-Hate

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