Few Changes - T11, VP, Guardian Charm

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[Draca]

This morning there are a few changes coming over.

Further reduction in the hitpoints of mobs in Kael Drakkel (T11)

While some people like the level of difficulty in T11, and appreciate the challenge it presents, it is not in line with the typical difficulty for a progression Tier. Many players cannot dedicate the amount of time that is required to work through T11 with any efficiency, and are not seeing many rewards because of it. We've also adjusted the scaling to better align with raid sizes. There have been no other changes, as the loot drops and damage output from the NPC's seem acceptable, and manageable.

Kael boss drops

People have noted that bosses don't always drop anything useful, or much of anything at all, and this is what comes from the balance of either adjusting spawn chances where you may not see a boss in an evening of gameplay but would definitely get loot, or you get some bosses, but take what RNG gives you, loot wise. Our choice was, as you can tell, to have bosses spawn more frequently, but with a chance to karate kick you right in the balls with some less than stellar loot. Nothing changed here, just wanted to address that.

VP Loot

Several things to point out with Veeshan loot:

• As noted in the changelog in-game, EZ Credits were removed from VP.
• More dramatically, following this morning's update there will be a considerable reduction in the sheer amount of loot drops in VP. Loot in VP, in particular the amount of zone essences and other previously valuable items, has been a great disappointment for me. My experience was lacking during VP's development, and because I intended for the zone to be considerably more difficult than it is now, I never intended for people to mow through it as fast as they can. This is obviously shortsighted, as clearly people would grow more powerful over time and with new content, but the mistake was made. I have resisted changing it, because it feels unfair to short people who never got the chance to be in the zone in it's current loot pinata form, but unfortunately the change needs to be made.
• Tunare will drop a GoW on every kill. (Map has been removed).


Guardian Charm

Guardian Charm is an overpowered item, changes will be coming in the next few weeks to dull it's effectiveness level 75+

[clbreastmilk]

Sounds like good changes.  With regards to the GC change (long time coming), could we have a look at T10 length adjustment to balance it against a GC nerf?

[hblackard]

I do not like this talk sir, please do not nerf ! =)

My six man team depends on its ability to allow steady progress. How will this effect my ability to do any Sleepers, Veeshan and maybe later T11 ? Probably will be too difficult withough making several more toons and the grind was already pretty rough.

This may kill it for me, I hope not but we will see.

Make Gaurdian Charms Great Again ! =)

OK rant over Have a great day all.

-Leeboslash

[Marcone]

VP change will likely impact me as I'm just about done with at least the faction work in T10 and was looking forward to trying VP/Sleepers. 

Is the intention to force people back to farming old zones for essences or will VP/Sleepers still be faster back farming of essences just less so than previously?

[Sarthin]

Since some of you newer players don't really know what to expect, I'll write about my experience with it all. I have been on both sides of the Guardian Charm.

When I first entered T10 with my initial 30 characters, I had never used Guardian Charm. Once I was strong enough, as in full Ultimate Armor and UC3, I could zone pull T10 with some finesse. Safest way was to kill Goops first, then use ZP. Obviously we don't all play the same way, just saying it can be done. In most cases, manually pulling T10 camps is much faster than doing a ZP, it's just more mindless to ZP.

After T10, Guardian Charm is not usable and it will not be usable in future tiers either. Also want to note that GC was never usable in VP, not even back when it was released. There is a debuff that will leave you pretty much insta-dead if you use GC when in VP. Kael has the same feature.

When it comes to essences, I found the quickest way to get them was not from Sleepers or VP, but rather combine ZP with a double or triple instance, targetting the various progression zones one by one.

Just my 2cp. I know it sucks when something gets removed or altered that you have relied on for quite some time, but I have no doubt you will all get by fine without it.

Guardian Charm gives a false pretense of how our content is meant to be fought. It's a pre-UC 1 item, that was never meant to be one of the most powerful items in the game even 15 years later.

[Draca]

VP change will likely impact me as I'm just about done with at least the faction work in T10 and was looking forward to trying VP/Sleepers. 

Is the intention to force people back to farming old zones for essences or will VP/Sleepers still be faster back farming of essences just less so than previously?

Essences still drop in VP, but the rate they drop at is not what it was. It should never have been nearly as lucrative for essences as it was, nor should I have left it like that for as long as I did.

As someone who has played MMORPG's, I always understand how shitty it feels when you miss out on something, because it was before you could take advantage of it. However, the more I explain some of the mistakes I've made to Sarthin, and try not to let us repeat them as developers, the more it made no sense to just leave something as glaringly unintended as the rate at which loot was dropping in VP.

VP should be really, really hard. It was launched that way, but because I was new at this, and because people were not as excited about difficult content as I would be, I capitulated far too easily, made some aggressive de-tuning, and it just wasn't that difficult anymore. Loot didn't change though from one difficulty to the other, so what should have been relatively hard to come by, was not. It wasn't intended to be a catch up for everyone, which it unfortunately became.

Ultimately, it was a bad decision on my part, compounded by a continued resistance to make a change that would hurt those who would miss out, but I've just had to pick a spot and make a change.

There is a solution I am kicking around, that eliminates the economy busting rate of essence drops, but still gives some relief to people who really do need to come into T11 pretty well equipped. This solution is that VP will drop No Drop, all in one essences, that can be turned into the Essence Trader, and will give credit towards the 100 essence quests. While these won't drop as frequently as essences were, their utility will be far superior. I want to think on this for a few days though, and make sure it's not something else that could cause issues down the road.


-Draca

[Draca]

Sounds like good changes.  With regards to the GC change (long time coming), could we have a look at T10 length adjustment to balance it against a GC nerf?

Because people have been abusing (not in an 'against the rules' way) the Guardian Charm's overpowered effects for so long, I do intend to make a few changes, though it's not going to be extreme:

• Increase base faction rewards from kill quests, likely from 75 to 100.
• Reduce Plagueborne kill count, likely from 1000 to 800.
• Introduce a new item 'Sunderock Spear' - this item will be the result of a Magic Box combine of 5 Scorpion's Spears, and will be an area pull item with a short duration root (usable in Sunderock only). This will allow players to more easily pull camps in Sunderock, and not lose too much to the inability to zone pull (without GC).

Zone pull will still work in Sunderock, and it is certainly survivable with the right gear, but most people rely on GC to faceroll ZP it.

For clarity, GC will be useless by level 78. Level 77 it will be very ineffective, with 76 and 75 being slightly better. Ultimately, Guardian Charms are a cheat code, and they were never intended to be.

[clbreastmilk]

There is a solution I am kicking around, that eliminates the economy busting rate of essence drops, but still gives some relief to people who really do need to come into T11 pretty well equipped. This solution is that VP will drop No Drop, all in one essences, that can be turned into the Essence Trader, and will give credit towards the 100 essence quests. While these won't drop as frequently as essences were, their utility will be far superior. I want to think on this for a few days though, and make sure it's not something else that could cause issues down the road.


-Draca

That is a fantastic idea.  To add onto that, would you consider making each essence type drop from any mob rather than those in the front dropping different types than those in the back?  Most people are going to want to attempt to clear near bosses or kill specific mobs to spawn bosses.  Having those able to drop each of your new "essence bundle" item, would be a nice change of pace.

[clbreastmilk]

Sounds like good changes.  With regards to the GC change (long time coming), could we have a look at T10 length adjustment to balance it against a GC nerf?

Because people have been abusing (not in an 'against the rules' way) the Guardian Charm's overpowered effects for so long, I do intend to make a few changes, though it's not going to be extreme:

• Increase base faction rewards from kill quests, likely from 75 to 100.
• Reduce Plagueborne kill count, likely from 1000 to 800.
• Introduce a new item 'Sunderock Spear' - this item will be the result of a Magic Box combine of 5 Scorpion's Spears, and will be an area pull item with a short duration root (usable in Sunderock only). This will allow players to more easily pull camps in Sunderock, and not lose too much to the inability to zone pull (without GC).

Zone pull will still work in Sunderock, and it is certainly survivable with the right gear, but most people rely on GC to faceroll ZP it.

For clarity, GC will be useless by level 78. Level 77 it will be very ineffective, with 76 and 75 being slightly better. Ultimately, Guardian Charms are a cheat code, and they were never intended to be.

This all sounds like a great trade off.  Do you think the weapon quest count should come down as well to sync up with your balance changes?

[Adidis]

That is a fantastic idea.  To add onto that, would you consider making each essence type drop from any mob rather than those in the front dropping different types than those in the back?  Most people are going to want to attempt to clear near bosses or kill specific mobs to spawn bosses.  Having those able to drop each of your new "essence bundle" item, would be a nice change of pace.

I'd like to agree with this. I don't mind reduced drop rates at all. I'd just love if all the essence types could drop in the back half. I'm on the grind for UWs so I can break into T11. It's a pretty steep increase in health for T11 which is understandable because people have been at top end so long so anything that helps is awesome.

[Biltin]

As someone who just finished T10 with my first character a couple of days ago I have to admit this sounds like it is going to suck for me.  Knowing that everything is going to be harder/longer for me than so many that have come before me is a hard pill to swallow, regardless of the reasons.

On a good note, I guess I can act as a guinea pig on how a player just getting past T10 manages post changes. 

Having said that, I do appreciate all the work you guys do and know that changes you make, you make for the betterment of the server as a whole.

[clbreastmilk]

Another thing to consider is without GC zone pulls, certain items like GSOA/GSS are going to be harder to come by for players that aren't already in kael.

But that can also be balanced.

[Draca]

Another thing to consider is without GC zone pulls, certain items like GSOA/GSS are going to be harder to come by for players that aren't already in kael.

But that can also be balanced.

GSS's are available in VP in far greater quantity than SR
GSOA's won't have any changes to their drop rates, as everything below SR can be ZP'd by any T10 warrior, with out without GC

[Draca]

This all sounds like a great trade off.  Do you think the weapon quest count should come down as well to sync up with your balance changes?

No, there isn't any need for a weapon reduction, as the camps will be area pullable still.

Changes are in no way to make SR easier, only to help offset the loss of Guardian Charm makes to large pulls.

[clbreastmilk]

Another thing to consider is without GC zone pulls, certain items like GSOA/GSS are going to be harder to come by for players that aren't already in kael.

But that can also be balanced.

GSS's are available in VP in far greater quantity than SR
GSOA's won't have any changes to their drop rates, as everything below SR can be ZP'd by any T10 warrior, with out without GC

How about letting players use Double/Triple in Veeshan?

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