T11 Feedback Thread

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[Sarthin]

T11 Feedback Thread

A month has gone by since we released Kael Drakkel, our latest progression zone, and it's been a month filled with some adjustments and enhancements based on your initial reactions. Yet, we realize we haven't formally opened the floor to gather your comprehensive feedback.

Before we dive into the details, it's important to address a topic that not only pertains to T11 but also holds significance on a broader scale.

We're all different and while some players choose to just play quietly on the server, we all got our thoughts on the experience. Not everyone may choose to voice their thoughts through OOC discussions or Discord banter—and that’s perfectly okay—we hope that many of you will share your thoughts here on the forums when you find time for it.

Our forums offer a dedicated space for meaningful conversations about your experiences, suggestions, and insights. While OOC chatter and Discord are fantastic for spontaneous interaction, they don't always provide the conducive environment needed for in-depth discussions with us, the developers. Draca and I find it challenging to engage fully in those platforms due to their ephemeral and mixed-content nature. Hence, we want you to bring your constructive feedback into this forum, where it can be thoroughly reviewed and considered. This not only ensures your voice is heard but also helps us compile and understand the community's feedback comprehensively.

I often find myself in tells or DMs with many of you and while I enjoy the interaction, I've sometimes thought that much of what we're talking about is probably topics that would benefit all our players to read about and respond to with their own thoughts and ideas. I've personally read bits and pieces here and there, both on Discord and in-game. I still have no idea what's representative, if anything, related to our content.

So with this thread we're inviting you to bring forth your feedback on T11, so we get a clearer picture of what goes and what doesn't, so we can make the most informed decisions for future updates.While we're particularly interested in the points listed below, feel free to share any additional feedback:

Characters: The number of characters you're managing and their classes.
Equipment: Details about your characters' gear level, for example, if you're outfitting 18 characters with top-tier items such as EoBAs, UC4s, UW12s, etc.
Combat Efficiency: The time it takes for you to defeat a standard NPC in Kael.
Time Investment: The total hours you've dedicated to exploring Kael.
Quest Progression: Your progress through quests within Kael.
Loot Accumulation: The quantity of armor and item pieces you've collected.
Favorite Features: The aspects of Kael you find most enjoyable.
Areas for Improvement: Suggestions for changes or enhancements to T11.

Just remember it's not limited to these point suggestions. We're interested in anything you may find relevant to T11.

Thanks in advance!

Draca/Sarthin




 

[Raygan]

I want this tier to take time…but it is hard and slogging away for hours and hours over days (in my experience) getting 2-3 named (mobs after enraged) with no armor molds….killing the possible names that spawns after Rune or Voltanis (Ragnar,Velk,etc) and not getting a shard or armor or anything….looking at 30 toons to push through that is just like majorly overwhelming. I like the story I like the zone….i love everything about it…except for feeling like I am stuck like Chuck with the crappiest RNG…I am all up for things taking time…but at this rate (not the quest lines just armors) feels WAY off. I hope you don’t take that as me crapping on your work because you did a beautiful job….just after hours of work with no reward it leaves you tired and not excited and kinda like why did I just spend all that time for nothing for. I believe the quest lines should take time but gearing toons out (so that content becomes more managable)....I have all heads but am waiting to spawn AoW until both of my tanks are full geared.  Spawning him and wiping and loosing AoW would suck more than I could possibly imagine. When you are killing for hours and hours a day and you just feel stuck, it takes a great tier, full of nastalgia, and just makes you go meh....and the content is far to good for that!

[gnonim]

Raid:  24:  2 Warriors, 3 Clerics, 4 Pallys, 9 rogues (all 12.5), 2 mages, 1 monk, 1 ranger, 1 changer, 1 shaman  All but two of the clerics have UW12 or higher.  All have earring except 2 clerics, all have Veeshan shield and min rank 5 ring, pretty maxed out.

Went through the 400 quest in 5-6 days.  Killed before that for several days.  Went another week or so after that before getting my first plate armor and that was three days ago I think.  The next day I got two more plate pieces.  Previous to that, I had a total of 3 silk and 1 chain drop.

I've killed the four bosses before and after adjustments.  Have not tried AOW yet even though I have all the heads.

I think all of the boss encounters are fun except for the "Increases Attack" instances which "seem" to insta-kill my warrior 30-50% of the time.  No time to even hit a key.  Now, I suppose I could see that if it happens at the exact same percent and take action when I'm a percent or two before that hits.  If that's the way it's supposed to be, fine.  However, would be nice to have at least one round's worth of time to react.  Yes, I know to keep my mitigation buffs up...
EDIT TO THE ABOVE PARAGRAPH:  Just really need to pay attention to what's happening when, with the debuffs after the adds and such.  Got a few tips today with regard to that especially and obviously I was missing those.  Wouldn't change a thing even with this.  Takes me so more time than others to work things out, even with getting tips..



I'd like to see Furious reuse brought down to 10-15 minutes.  As it stands at 30 minutes, on these more challenging bosses, I've managed to get Fjord without using it, but it's nice to have in reserve and entering into your hardest mobs without everything available then getting smoked again, then you just end up waiting to try again for 30 minutes for it all to reset.  Then again, I could be way off base and missing some major mechanism that would help here.  No idea.  And yes, I use the BP clicky to try to weather some of those "Increases Attack".

I don't think any changes really need to be made.  Like it the way it is.  There is a feeling of making very very little progress.  But I've lowered my expectations there.  Some days I may kill 150 giants, other days more like 30.

At this point I may not even bother with Fjord till I've got full plate on my tank.  Time would be better spent on the other bosses and mini's that have a chance to drop armor.  And that's fine.  As stated above, I'll probably have a pretty big stockpile of heads before even attempting AOW.

Like the zone a lot.  Like the encounters, even Fjord who kicks my butt most of the time.  Very nice design job overall.

[clbreastmilk]

Characters: I have 24, but due to the scaling and my current gear, I'm using 18 that have the highest DPS.  War, 4 Pal, 3 Mnk, 2 Rog, Sk, Wiz, Mage, Rng, 2 Brd, Cleric and Zerk.  Benched chanter/war/druid/bst/necro and one other i forgot.
Equipment: Tank is VP geared fully, halloween augs, but no War token items.  Healers have Ucv4 on 2 pallies and a cleric, 1 Ucv3 pally and 1 Uc pally.  DPS is a mix of maybe 6 or so UW and 6 or so rank 50 earrings
Combat Efficiency: Several minutes per mob.
Time Investment: 30ish hours
Quest Progression: Just starting
Loot Accumulation: 0 (but for the time investment and mob kill speed, this is expected)
Favorite Features: It's fantastic.  The quests, the gambling, the boss spawn chances, it's all fantastic.
Areas for Improvement: I'd like to solely comment on the DPS aspect of this zone and to at least some extent, Tunare/VP.  The tank/healing for these zones progression wise feels fine.  The DPS seems to have taken a massive requirement spike after T10.  This likely feels very natural for the old guard players who have already finished putting rank 50 earrings on every toon, gathered a UW for each toon and other items.  Though I can see at least some of them are still struggling with the time investment in the zone.  I wanted to suggest perhaps following the previous formula of adding "budget items" at certain points in the game.  Sleepers/Halloween weapons are a good example.  They aren't meant to be replacements for the UW, and those items should be top tier, but could we do the same thing with DPS oriented items.  Take the earring for example.  Rank 50 is 200%.  What if you added a mod to existing jewerly that drops in tier zones that adds 10% per tier and having it end up at something around 100% in T10 and not have it stack with the existing earring.  Such and item would be worthless to well geared old guard players, but would give new players a progression path into these well made new zones, without having spent the 8+ years grinding GSOA.  It could be any number of solutions, or none at all, but just my feedback.  Lastly, loving the new content and seeing Sarthin/Draca talk about already working on multiple new zones is absolutely spectacular so please don't take this as a negative thing.  All this new stuff is an absolute positive.

[Adidis]

Characters: 2 Warriors, 4 Paladins, 1 Cleric, 1 Druid, 1 Shaman, 1 Ranger, 3 Rogues, 1 Monk, 1 Beastlord, 1 Mage, 1 Enchanter, 1 Wizard, 2 Bards, 1 SK, 1 Berserker, 2 Necros,

Gear: Main Warrior is fairly closed to as max as you can get pre-T11, Rogues+2nd War all have UW12+EBoA, Monk+Pal1 have UW12 have a few scattered UCv4 with most the crew being fairly close to having all their Sleeper gear and most have scattered Veeshan gear + 3-4UA pieces with UC/v2 or Brawler 50s.

I poked around entrance trash with each mob taking a few minutes to kill. Incoming damage felt manageable for what I toyed with.

Posting my thoughts cause this was being discussed in Discord a bit today

My opinion is I don't want to see anything get weaker cause that would feel bad to those who really are capped out on Pre-T11 gear. Like the post above we might need something that helps bridge the gap a little between a 100% maxed out character and one that is 95%. I didn't think about earring originally, but that is one of the dps increase spots. The other spot of note is Necklace since the only ones that give a damage buff are the Halloween and GoW neck. I originally thought weapons felt weird, but after scoping them out there isn't much room for improvement on sleeper weapons without them encroaching too closely on UWs in my opinion. This may just be the spot where people have to really spend some time filling out UCs which is what I'm working toward right now so I'll slowly be seeing how the power changes in my raid with those changes. There might not be a big need for change here for newer players, but I'm just one guy testing with what's available to me.

[Pubis]

Characters - 30

gear - pretty complete up to this tier

efficiency - 30s is pretty typical but it does vary.

Time played - I don't know, it's variable but I've been playing a lot I probably get about 5 hours a night. Sometimes I can hop in or an additional 30 minutes or hour just to get a few things done. The first week I played substantially more on some weekend days.

Progression quest: Just finished enraged.
Shield: first shield took 16 AoWs. I have the ability to spawn ~5 AoW and just missing velk heads for 7 more after that so it's probably fair to say ~2 shields in the course of doing enraged could be expected.
UCV5: I finished 75/80 before the shard changes and just finished my first one right after finishing enraged. Now they are quite fast and I'm already pretty deep into my second ucv5. Based on my kill numbers I would have completed roughly 3.5 UCv5 in the process of doing enraged had this drop rate been around the whole time.
Mantles: Finished roughly 2 mantles to rank 5. The only significant piece in this is Relics of Norrath. The essence combine item is very similar to flawless GSOA from VP where it requires a much more valuable component (essence of kael) to make something that drops relatively often from Rot. Perhaps there is a relic combine I don't know about but they come rather slowly.
Armor: I counted armor pieces as a function of enraged kills along the way. At last check I had 650 enraged total had 82 pieces of armor. So a drop every ~8 enraged implying a player should expect 125 armor pieces over the course of doing enraged (an 18 man group needs 126 pieces total). Of course, 1/4 of this will be leather and in general you will get duplicates and rots. When I finished enraged my warrior had ~30/60 armor rot hand-ins. I should say, at some point I stopped killing DR so I hadn't used Ymir to supplement armor drops. Ymirs mechanism is huge for progression in that it lets you direct what pieces you get. He is also extremely common from my experience so that helps a lot avoiding situations where you get very unlucky with one piece. I've still never seen a chain breastplate drop from Voltanis, for instance, yet I have 3 full sets of chain thanks to Ymir. This is a good mechanism.
UW13: I finished 2 UW13s which means I had roughly 240 essences drop in the span of doing enraged (36 for NS augs). I also have been saving AoWs which seems to be good for like 2-3 per clear so I probably farmed the equivalent of 250-260 essences if you count those unredeemed heads.
Roxy Aug: My MT is on sparkling which I guess is the 4th rank. I'm probably slightly unlucky here because I spent almost 90k coins total on this last upgrade. Although RNG will be high here, I suspect most will be at sparkling after enraged are done.
Cold delivery: I skipped as many wolves, bears and sirens as possible while grinding enraged so I'm nowhere on this quest (3 of 30). I'll probably put some effort into this now. Right now this quest is tangential to most of the rest of the zone, not sure if that's good or bad.

Favorite features - I have a lot of positive things to say about the zone in general. I like that you have to keep your brain engaged and think things through. You need to pay attention to what you are killing (for instance, to shape the drops you need), you need to pay attention to kill order (for instance if you have a boss and a named up to not waste a possible boss pop or if you have too many in camp to kill animals first to avoid possible chains). I like that using your brain is beneficial to your productivity and as a result I've very rarely, if ever, felt bored in Kael. I like that the bosses have mechanics that are well-telegraphed and clear (compare to like zeixshi for instance). I like that there is a real sense of progression as you move through the zone, you will get more capable you will get stronger. I like that the content presents a real challenge that pushes players to hone their play. I like that there are tons of small things to work on (AoW spawn, armor, spells, UV5, UW, mantle, coins/augs etc) while you are progressing through the overarching "Long grind" of enraged.

Areas for improvement - I don't have much here. I think this is a good step but I'd love to see this approach to boss design continued as we move forward. I'd like more mechanisms more often so you don't just zone out while a blob of HP drains away; Ragnar is a decent example of this, without his second enrage the fight is basically done at 80%.

I guess one thing is that Kael is homogenous, the entrance is basically identical to the deepest parts in terms of difficulty. I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to have difficulty gradients or particularly difficult parts, VP had this a little bit, but it was bypassed by binding in the zone beyond the challenges. I think that aspect was a good feature of the zone.

[Fecs]

Characters - 33
Started with ~1/4 having UC4, end with all having UC4.
Gear - warrior mostly maxed.
7 rogues - started with 2 12.5s and 1 uw 12 and 4 SPDs

Kill speed 60-90 per for first ~100-150 enraged
25-45 for majority.

Averaged out maybe 3-5 hours a day, frequently playing at work so lots of afk time.

Shield - first shield took around 9 AoW cycles. have not completed 2nd shield, at around 20 AoW cycles.

Was around 30-40/80 when change went into place.

Finished enraged with 2.5 UC5 done.

Mantle - finished 2nd mantle same day as finishing enraged.

Armor : I experienced a massive influx of cloth - warrior is at 54/60 rot.

Only 5 of 33 had full armor sets.

.
UW 13 - finished 4 UW13, easily 2 of them were from thuledream.

Cold delivery: feels like a big waste of time with how annoying mounts are, especially with the knockbacks in kael making mounts basically completely unuseable.

Roxy aug: Finished 2nd literally on the turnin after finishing enraged.

Spells: I feel these are much too rare. finished enraged without ever seeing wizard, bard, or druid spells. First ranger spell was around 970 enraged. It's frustrating that Power ranger cannot be MGB'd.

Epic 11.0 -
Initial feedbacks without any real testing - skipping ones that are just bigger numbers of previous
Ranger : cool that it is a proc instead of click
Cleric: cool effect to keep rolling
Paladin: doesn't seem to stack with cleric click, so pointless?
Shaman: Pet seems to be garbage? hard to judge, but it can't solo sunderock mobs at all.
necro and enchanter pet: sometimes win against sunderock mobs 1v1, but normally lose.

Overall: I think Kael was a great concept.
I do think it was slightly over tuned but feels nice now after the changes in terms of monster power.

I think spells are way too rare.

I think armor is too rare as well. IIRC I had my first plate piece drop at around 85 or 90 enraged kromrifs.

I think the majority of the weapons/shields being just trash to give rot bot isn't the most fun.
The "useable" weapons, feel too rare as well. ended up getting 1 AoW sword, 4 fists, and 3 shurikens, and 1 healer range.

Even buying spells for a billion plat or something would be nice.

It feels really bad to have an AoW cycle drop not actual equitable items on the regular.

ThuleDream feels like a great step from Kael in terms of design and structure. More reliable character reward as you go does increase the fun to me (bosses actually dropping something besides coin/shard/plat).

Personally I feel like most tiers "rain" items down but kael very much feels like a draught, even when you're having good luck.

[Sarthin]

Updates

So we've had Kael running for 5 months now and like Draca noted in his previous post, we understand that Kael has felt overtuned for some of you. There have also been valid conserns about some spawn chances and the rewards for killing certain bosses. Draca and I have made a series of adjustments today, pending a push to live. Here are some of the adjustments we've made:

[Tasks]
- Changed enraged quest kill task from 500 to 350.
- Less kills needed for the Mechi shield task.
- Decreased the amount of armor mold rots needed to complete the Ultimate Augment task.

[Database]
- Decreased the overall hit points and damage of all NPCs in Kael.

[Item and spawn chances]
- Increased drop rates on armor and armor mats.
- Increased relic drop chance from some sources.
- Slightly increased the spawn rates on Thalassa, Fenris and Draikon.
- Removed the knockback effect from Kael trash NPC's spells.
- Increased GSoA drop chances on some NPC's.
- Adjusted drop rates on several items for the 4 bosses, including spells.
- Increased the chance for good rewards off the Avatar of War chain.
- Increased the initial spawn chain chance for the four bosses.

[Denzig]

Awesome changes.

Trash mobs are still doing the knockback, though.

HP reduction is nice.

The update completed my Ultimate Aug quest, but had to turn in 1 more rot armor pattern to kick off the gem into my inventory. Just a heads up if anyone asks/brings it up.

[Fecs]

For anyone else that runs into this, if you hail him and go through the armor line and click bulk turnin, even with nothing to turn in, will trigger the reward as well.

[gnonim]

Just finished the 700 today...  Out of 24 toons, here is the current state:

Armor:  71% of molds looted, 9 toons with full armor
Armor Components:  All have all minor and cooled water.  8 toons still need all the major shards.
HP Augs:  19 with all HP Augs (not Roxy augs)
Resist Augs:  12 with all Resist Augs
RK Bracer from Tormax:  7
Fen Mask:  6
Roxy Final Aug:  3
Frozen Mantle Complete:  2
Mounts: 4
Improvement Quest: 0 (need one more scale from Statue to finish first)
AoW Cycles:  15
Upgrade Augments:  2
1 HS (Shagrath): 1
1 UW13 so far.  At about 80 essences for the next one.  Almost all are from KD as I didn't have much time in the new Halloween zone yet.

[orkiho]

Finally getting some spells to drop.   

The Neco dots, incisor V and pyre V.  Previous ranks of these were able to be spread to other mobs by Epidemic the kael ones do not seem to spread.   Is this expected behavior?

Cleric Armor of the Crab IV vs III is only an increase of 45AC, no additional HP.  Is that correct?   At our numbers does 45AC actually do anything?

Still missing lots, would be nice to be able to exchange rotting spells or add them to the weapon rot turn in.

[Sarthin]

Finally getting some spells to drop.   

The Neco dots, incisor V and pyre V.  Previous ranks of these were able to be spread to other mobs by Epidemic the kael ones do not seem to spread.   Is this expected behavior?

Cleric Armor of the Crab IV vs III is only an increase of 45AC, no additional HP.  Is that correct?   At our numbers does 45AC actually do anything?

Still missing lots, would be nice to be able to exchange rotting spells or add them to the weapon rot turn in.

The necro DoTs were not added to Epidemic, so works as intended. Regarding AC, you would not notice any difference at current levels.

I'm not sure what happened with Crab IV. I just checked the logs and I see I had it set at higher HP initially, but Draca has changed it down to match rank 3 a while back.

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