EZ Server

so i hear there are a few  nerfs coming and a few boosts. from what i understand the following may happen:
1.) pallies will have healing reduced 10-25%
2.) SK's will get a DPS increase
3.) no other classes will be majorly impacted

here's the proposal I believe to be best:
1.) reducing the pallies heals is alright, but please consider reducing mob HP's by approx 10% or more
2.) enhance clerics with instant heals is good, but those healing values need to be super high
3.) increase damage mitigation of warriors
4.) wizzards need more DPS (more so then SK's; perhaps increase the hate an SK's proc creates?)
5.) Mages need some sort of buff to increase the effectivness of their pets or possibly a boost to the Mage pet's HP
6.) Beastlords need the same...
7.) shamans and enchanter's need not see the "this mob is immune to changes in its attack speed" live delt with this via "the spell was partially effective."


I understand that this is rather difficult but there are a ton of neglected classes at the moment, perhaps we shouldnt be nerfing the classes that can hold their own but enhancing the classes that aren't being used.

it's not about who is more powerful or who is overpowered, the classes need an overall re-balance... all of them!

I'm trying to keep nerfing to a minimum. Paladins NEED to have their heal proc reduced.

1) I plan to reduce T3/T4 boss hp after T5 is released.
2) Instant heals for Clerics would have a recast time + high mana cost, so they'd be good for emergencies, and useful again.
3) Why?
4) Wizards with UC were nuking 1.5 million, but I think it might be down to 3/4 million now.
5) Yes, all classes need new pets + pet buffs starting maybe at T1.
6) Same as above
7) Mobs are all un-slowable currently. Might consider changing that, need to find out how much that will affect the balance of things

3.) the damage mitigation would make heals of less frequency be as effective... so the tank wouldnt have to be an SK.
7.) the partially effective would limit the amopunt they cna be slowed... you may want to look into this as a possible solution.

Hunter, would you like people to start giving some informational/parsed-based feedback on the matter of specific classes? Obviously, all classes have different uses. I'm also not trying to say I have the answers, just wondering if you'd like us to offer you some actual data-based information or let you take care of trying to balance things. I know it's very tough, just trying to see which sounds better.

Avoiding really long drawn-out discussions on classes/fixes agreement from everyone would also be nice if you want to hear ideas.

I'd also like to say i don't mean this as criticism but more of suggestion as a possible roadmap.. or things to consider...

Wizards got off a nuke of 1.25 million in a duel, with an Ultimate Charm,  however they cant/ couldnt cast it again for a good long while.  DPS on them is much lower than used to be, being able to hit hard but waiting to regen/mana stone back up fast enought drived damage per second way down in comparison to warriors. Before the yamaikagis spell was nerfed their dps was significant enough to be above warriors dps on auto attack.  I did 3 solid parses of themm this past weekend.  With an ultimate charm and bot buffed the can reach war dps over 20 mins if you are spamming the living hell out of mana stone.  Without an ultimate charm well, you get the idea.

For the most part i am happy with the SK i have, Saying that when i recieved my 4.0 epic it seemed to do a little more but the clickie is the thing that i would like most to be changed/fixed. Going from my 3.5 with a HT that did awesome damage, i went to what seems to be the same effect as the 3.0. At this time i am working on getting another 3.5 just for that reason. I do not box so the SK is neither OP or completly useless for solo gaming im sure if i ran around with a small army of bots the War would be better or a pally for that matter.

I must agree that any nerfs to pally healing should include higher mitigation to help compensate (and not just to warriors).

Spike damage can be insane and I can't see any spells cast that will be a viable substitute to pally procs.  The only way I can see healers being used more (why should we just give clerics love?) is to significantly increase their heal/regen amounts while lowering how much damage a tank will take, therefore making casting heals viable.  Faster casting times would be nice as well.

With the current change it wont stack with the druid regen buff, but I think having a decent HoT for clerics would be beneficial to catch some of the spike damage. Instant cast, long recast, but healing for 5k base per tick (which with full oracle and heal clicky amounts to decent healing, but only once every 6 seconds so not OP).

I wholeheartedly agree that pet buffs and pets need to be boosted from as early as t1 (as far as I care,  it can already start dropping in qvic - just let sand monster rotate one of four pet buffs - ENC, MAG, NEC, BL), and for the love of gnomes, please do something with enchanting defender. It's useless.

I'm fine with re-implementing slow, but I would be even happier if enchanter pets could actually be replacement tanks.

Anyone asking for charm to be re-implemented should be shot. As much fun as it would be running around with a dragon pet in PoD, it's either impossible to balance or utterly useless (depending on whether or not you'll allow mobs higher than lvl 70 to be charmed or not).

Oh, also - having a nice big anti-DS for clerics would also be fun. Cast on the boss, and every time you hit it you get healed for 500 base hps (which, again, with a decent attack speed and oracle/clicky amounts to nice spike damage mitigation). Spells like that already exist, it's just a matter of copy/paste adjust done (ideally).

SK dps parses out the highest of all classes in game as of right now
Pally is second highest dps


This is based on UC and top gear/weapons.  Argue all you want this is what parsing shows.

PS: this is not to exclude warriors with dealing with multiple mobs.

Flame away pally and sk but this is how it is as of now.

Oh my god its weird to go back and read posts Ive made while half asleep.  I guess my point was to say that wizards dps is same as warriors?  A wizard spamming the shit out of shrimps manastone and casting Yamikagis, equipped with an UC reaches 35K dps.  Warriors with an UC do the same on autoattack standing there.  This is a tough job ya got here Hunter balancing these classes or at least trying to balance them.  Are we looking at balancing them around complete bleeding edge gear? I;ll help as much as I can boss if ya need any testing done or straight up parses.

I don't parse - I'm allergic to math.
But if you give a Ranger a guaranteed one-shot kill on her bow and make it instant cast, then all should be well with the world.
RANGERS FTW!

I'd like to add if you boost the dps of dps classes then there'd be no need to reduce the hp of mobs.

No no no pouncer
That'll start the debate of "what are dps classes"

Reducing mob hps makes every class more effective, in comparison to when you up dps on classes someone's always going to whine how they got shafted.

Also - Frond a pond (NEVAR FORGET)

-Clev

Dps Classes usually being say ... ber monk rog wiz mag etc... but on here dps classes = war pal sk !

Clerics should be the next DPS class. Give them a 2 hour invulnerability, recastable every 30 minutes, and a better proccing 4.0 - Like one that procs Slay Living or something.

Win!

Yeah... but i don't think you can attack with invuln on? =P

There are different types of invulnerability.
War t4 spell has an invulnerability effect instead of just base mitigation - it's an upgraded version of stonewall - this is the type I'm talking about.
Also, would be fun if you could invul three pet classes and yourself and just confuse the mob to death lol

Oh hmm thats interesting... and on other note... Lol

Yeah the war spell calle Crab shouts fuck off or something like that.  Made me giggle last night when I saw one drop.  never have used it though maybe i should farm t4 nekkid and try it.

Where do we meet?

Lowering the Paladin heal won't cause the majority of the player base to use Clerics more often.  They'll simply add another paladin in their main group to offset.  If they aren't already boxing Clerics (divine intervention), Paladins will still appease the boxing players.  Low maintenance > high maintenance

I think it's really great that you are looking into balancing/fixing some issues of class balance, but I think emphasis should be put on classes that are currently not being played/waste of a slot:

1) Berserker
2) Bard
3) Enchanter (sorry Clev LOL)

And many T3 spells need to be looked at, especially spells that require 50% of a player's mana for one cast (Yamakagis & Cleric Heal).  The monk's kick spell is a series of kicks that deal 100-200 damage, which is nothing in T3/T4.  And many melee class's spells require the item to be equipped, which takes away a weapon/charm slot when it is cast.  This and a few epics that need some love (cleric 3.5/4.0, berserker 3.5/4.0, etc..)

These are just some of the things that can be looked into for class balance, instead of focusing on two classes that has had a lot of love already (paladin/sk).  They are fine where they are IMO.

It's the same at 3.0 level/level 20ish charms.
I don't see why you need to reduce healing of Paladins, but reduce dps.. hmmm maybe .. either that or ->
ding ding ding ding

exactly.. you would have to REALLY reduce the healing... like completely ruin it... to make people switch.

and nobody wants that.

 if you reduced it 20% people would just add another paladin and come out +60% on heals and +100% on dps...

None taken! It's true!

DPS can be easily defined as having no other major role.  You have tanks, healers, buffers, and DPS.  This makes rogues, wizards, mages, necros, beastlords, rangers, zerkers, and maybe more but I can't think of any hehe.

The farther we go, the more irrelevant monks become, (and other DPS classes. Monks should be higher than sk in dps, and not by just a little but a large amount.

Best group on this server = 6 sk.

 You have to separate them into groups, for DPS, casters and melee.

Rogue/Monk/Zerker top DPS melee (not in any order)

Wizzy top DPS caster.

Melee has always been better at sustained DPS, while casters are considered burst DPS. But on a custom server this can be overcome with mana regen, mana cost and resist rates..even casting times.

The problem is that the majority of DPS isn't actually coming from weapon damage anymore, it's all procs.  Sure, I could load my monk up with icestrikes, and maybe he would be competitive with an equivalently geared pally/sk/warrior, but those other classes would still be more useful 99% of the time.

Have you parsed a pally lately? Pally with UC is 50k+. An SK is more than that. My monk has UC, 3 V augs, 2 V and 1 III and he is doing about 32 to 34k dps. That is with no benifit to rest of the group (cept for helping to make the mob dead) and no heals to group or self. I am not asking that any classes get nerfed, I just think that the DPS classes need to be higher. I like the role that sk and pally have been given. It makes them relevant and I would not want it diminished so I feel better about my monk. I just wish some of that love could happen to other classes.

 ye sorry for derail haha but..

 Its to late for melee it would start a riot ! With the amount of haste obtainable and the low delays already,all melee hit the delay cap of 10(?) I think pretty easy. So those numbers on your epics are kinda misleading. Might as well set them all at 10 delay from start. I mean really if you think about it,its just eye-candy and fluff.

 I mean zerker 2h is what 15 delay? Pally is around 25ish? But in actuality they both wind up at 10 with ease. So delay really isnt effecting balance. Damage would make a greater impact.

Proc rate is set for all,where as critical rate has one setting for zerker and one everyone else if I remember right? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 Aye thats the best way to go about it,and I think Hunter has stated he prefers this route too.
I've said it before Warriors are the standard,for this server,in which all other classes should be balanced around. DPS classes above a warrior,hybrids just below if not on par.

I think the answer might just be... Increase the hell out of pure Melee Damage on their weapons. I think zerker 3.5 is 225 . Just double it.

Do the same with all pure melee.

I don't think nerfing is in order.


Are auras available  here? Why not use them as a way to balance. Each class can bring some thing useful to the table.


Deadend

 I havent seen anything in the updates on eqemu about auras working yet. They currently do not tho,no clue why. Maybe someone else could she some light on it.

 Its hard to find that 'magic' number for damage.. I mean it would take a ton of parses for each class involved. Because of the RNG, one parse be like "Wow i own!",next one be like "WTF happened there I suck"..and so on till you get a good average. But it can be done...

edit: Also I'm not knocking Hunter at all,but I dont know where he comes up these numbers, say for like crafted augs and epics. Have they been tested? Or did it just look good on paper? Without proper testing I think you get what we got now. I mean these may be the magic numbers, I'm just curious how he comes up with them.

I know what you're saying Xiggie, but I didn't put any augs on my monk to parse since I know they'd just be better on another Pally.  I didn't realize the gap was so large even with them.

My favorite toon on live was a monk, and I keep one in my group here too even though it's not beneficial from a min/max standpoint.

Actually,

Hunter found out that if you put over 250 (iirc) base damage on a weapon, it rolls back over and hits about as hard as a bag of air. I'm not entirely sure yet if that means that we've basically seen our maximum output for pure melee damage, or if maybe later down the road Hunter can whip up some new buffs that push our strength over the 440 limit (with buff bot buffs), which may increase base damage.

What if anger augs weren't warrior only?

I think he should leave the warrior augs as they are but adjust the other augs and even make further upgrades for them. Add a tap component to the ice augs and make a VI and VII doubling the component cost on each new one. Adjusting the crit percent chance would help too.

Doubling the component cost... *Choke*
Because nothing says attainable like having to spend 20 million on an aug VII to be competitive with the free dropped warrior augs?

Maybe if you are buying it completely and not farming the mats for it. Magic blue diamond costs 1,007,999pp. Doubling that would make it 2mpp and some change, double that would make it 4mpp and some change. As for being competitive with warriors, they are with my setup. This would make me surpass them.

Warrior (anger) augs need to stay the same.  I don't even want anger augs on my monk, ranger, etc..  but how about some free dropped augs for those other classes that don't cost millions to make?  Unfortunately this is the only way we are going to get increased DPS until someone figures out the weapon damage cap issue.

Nothing to figure out really.  It would require a code change to allow more than 255 damage on a weapon.  It is currently an unsigned 8-bit value.