Print Page - Ez Economy Fix?

This isn't so much a suggestion as a call for help....I'm sure you folks know as well as I do that there is a serious problem with the EZ economy. Money is nearly impossible to make at the moment. People aren't paying any money for the drops they use to pay for. Qvic-t4 gear rots non stop all day. Even selling runs through zone doesn't yield any PP.

What do people pay for then? Where is the money going ? I'm sure hunter can tell us but I'm pretty sure its going to the NPCs for Mats for augs. Like a perpetual PP vacuum.
I'm not an economist or anything, hell I went to Art School but I do know that since hunter added augs to the server and wiped the banks clean the economy has been piss poor. FG and CG sets are the only real avenue to generate any income and they are so variable its scary.

How do you introduce more money without making the intentionally hard to afford augs affordable. How do you get the money circulating, how do you get People to invest in gear and services such as runs and such?

So I was chatting with LB tonight and he brought up a good idea again. I've seen it shot down a few times but I would really love to see the Bazaar put into action. Would it not be beneficial to the economy to make items in qvic/tacvi/t1/t2 trade-able?
Like ores and aug combine items?
Things are rotting day and night without people buying them how can the average jerk like me make a few bucks?
I can only farm qvic for gems for so long.

This might not be the answer but it is an idea:)

Thoughts, suggestions?

Deadend

LMFAO you did post it lol !

Thank you for the credit on this one at least. We have a bazaar not being used atm, i used to have 3 mules active in bazaar on live with liek 5mil pp and prob 15mil in items on them.

I do feel if even not for mules being used in bazaar, at least peopel that like to only farm (I.E) those that arent pressed to progress, could rake in pp farming pally war rng rogue hell all ore now lol, and said mats for hp aug regen etc.

I really feel it would also diversify ooc rather then seeing the continually spammed mith ssoy etc guk items people are desperate to sell now to make pp.

Thanks again for the noth up on this, im sure it would be tons of coding etc, and yes i wish i nkew anythingabout it to help, but i only know log in and play =)

-Lightblade

I think what might work would be adding a zone where you can only get money on corpses, maybe make it bosses that drop varying levels of platinum with difficulty that scales with tiered content; the higher the boss, the more platinum it drops. That, or some new quests that reward platinum for doing specific events, kinda like the starter quests. The amount of plat generated per hour should be greater than what you can make in an hour in each specific tier, but not by too much. However, I think there should be a way to farm just money rather than money and stones or money and ores or money and quest pieces, etc etc. We have a zone tailored to RoA so why not one tailored to making money?

Or maybe the zone can have random decreasing chances to drop rare gems/items that sell for a buttload of PP. You kill a boss and you get X amount of platinum, and there's a rare chance for you to get a gem that's worth maybe 10k, 50k, 100k, etc. This can easily be scaled at Hunter's discretion; he knows the rate plat enters and leaves the game. If he did this, he could make T5 instances cost more but people would have an avenue with which to pay for them without spending 12 hours in HoH farming gems. The cost of making augs was reduced just recently, but t3 plate still only sells at 100k at best if it isn't a breastplate. Epic 4.0 books (Which are what Hunter is thinking of making t5 flags) sell for under a million now. I think with more plat in the economy people would be more willing to part with it to the players that actually kill the bosses they need to get their higher gear/flags and progress quicker. Maybe we can find other plat sinks that work just like augs- maybe armor/jewelry slot augments that cost platinum to buy and are improvements over the rank 5 augments.

I dunno, these are just some ideas to throw around. Maybe the economy is the way Hunter wants it, maybe he isn't too worried about it at this specific point in time, etc etc. With t5 looming just around the corner, though, if epic 4.0s are the flag people will be trying to buy them to see what's up in the new zone.

Quote from: Destined on February 18, 2011, 05:28:29 am

The straight plat that drops from Avatars in HoH is very low; in 4 hours of farming I end up with maybe 10,000 platinum from avatars, hardly anything to even shake a stick at. Again, not sure if that's how you intended it or not, but suggestions are just suggestions.

4 hours of HoH give me abut 15 to 20k raw PP, and 3 to 4+ bags of gems.... not the best but still good....

I feel the economy bug people are feeling is trying to rush multi goons to end game and full augs on all goons.....that's expensive it will take time to farm items and PP... but people always want the fastest speedy way to get there...

One more thing the PP was messed up with the heavy inflation artificially created by the exploitation. People thought or feel those high prices were the norm they are not...

Go farm pp and items if you want to outfit all the goonsquad with end game augs...

I'm still farming also for my full team I've been at it a while I'm not rich but patient and persistent hang in there and please don't expect endgame ASAP. Don't get me wrong I would love to be full everything now now now too!

Issue moreso is that nothing sells now. Someone called it buyer's market recently, and quite frankly the buyers have all decided not to buy anything. T3 hardly sells, excluding plates and last one I sold was greaves for 80k. T4 seems to be the last stand looming barely at the 100k+ limit (and nobody ofc sells the most desired pieces). Sup Lightstones are still a hit and stay valiantly at the 150k range. FG/CG kits... Meh. You used to see chaps sell em quick enough, now it's like same guys /oocing their kits for days (unless he camped a second one alrdy, I dunno =p).

I have no idea what this talk about "saving for T5" is all about anyway. Instances were said to cost 100k. What are people expecting, that the first T5 plate chest that drops will be auctioned? Ain't gonna happen buddies, there's most likely going be a good while before anyone sells anything worthwhile from there.

It's just kind of disheartening to farm T2 for some bracers and have 4 DC chests rot since nobody wants to give anything over 50k for em (and I ain't going to clear to entrance and zone out of instance to guildinvite folks for bleeding 30k; SORRY PAL).

I mean, I'm broke all the time since the augs came out. Got 1 mill off lottery bot recently and every copper went into the hungry mouth of the crafter merchant.

When the platinum exploit was fixed, what we saw was a gradual increase in value of our platinum. This was first seen through prices of commodities such as major dragon essences falling from 500k to 250k.

Let's say you can only sell T3 molds for 100k now instead of 500k. Yes, you're getting a lot less plat, but with that plat, you can buy more things now that everything on the market dropped in price. This really isn't a problem for the most part if everything on the server is free market, but it's not. The prices for Guk & HoH instances were not adjusted down for deflation, and the prices for augs are still at the same price level.

Another example is if your 100k salary was reduced to 50k, and everything you buy in the stores have dropped their prices by 50% as well. This isn't really a problem, as the market does adjust itself to the supply/demand; however, what we have here is the government controlling parts of the industry. This is equivalent to having to pay rent at the same price as before. What you have now is increases in price for rent, but constant prices in everything else. In-game, what we will see is a larger gap between people who can afford 100k instances and version 5 augs, and people who can't. Everything else remains the same.

We do see Hunter adjusting some of this through monetary policies by increasing the plat drop on HoH bosses.

Alot of mobs out there have gem drops and i for one never pass up a opportunity to stomp some lower lvl mob to get his 1 star gem, it adds up. The prices were really sorta high when i first got on here a half a million for a Bp? Come on ive been on here 5 months and have yet to see 1 million let alone have the money for augs. But as the old Native american guy said on that movie Josie wales said "endevour to perservere" and so i must be at the mercy of the markets and drudge tirelessly on to find my cash flow even if it is 1 star gem at a time.

HoH and Lguk instances were made with the intentions of it being a multi-person investment, hence being named Guild Instance. A few hours in there and you have your investment back through plat and gem drops, even if you don't sell the drops.

What I am seeing is that people don't realize that the economy is having to adjust twice since the Big Plat Wipe. The first time it was adjusted was because the server lost 3.7b plat. There were some people that lost hundreds of millions of plat and that caused prices to drop drastically. That was the first adjustment to the economy. The second adjustment is people running out of the rest of the millions of plat they had left. This adjustment is not felt all at once. People had varying amounts of plat stashed on various toons. As more and more plat runs out prices are becoming lower and lower and lower. Our economy has changed structurally from earning plat primarily by selling gear at higher prices than what should be because of the exploit to earning plat through gem drops primarily and supplementing it with the sale of drops.

I personally like the price of the Ninja Strike augs. I only have 1. I can't afford a second one now but am getting close. I need several more. I would like to have them all now, but honestly, if I did have them all now, and that was the basis behind this server, (being so easy to get stuff) I would have quit this server a long long time ago. As it is, I have been on this server for well over 2 years. I think the economy is still adjusting though I think it is probably starting to settle down.

I have in the past shot down any suggestion about the Bazaar being used. My basis for being against this idea was that it would have been a drain on recourse of the server when the server could not afford it. That is when our numbers were 500 to 600 though. Our average now is 279 which is a lot different picture. I think it would be a good idea for people to start using the bazaar. I don't however that components for armor and augs or their end products should be changed to no drop. This would streamline too many people to end game too quickly. Maybe making them tradeable but using an artificial means of inflating the price would be something workable. I might have an idea on how that can be worked out and if I can work it out in my head I will post it in its own thread.

Bottom line though I think the economy is fine. I think it is adjusting to what it should be. Once it finally settles down people will start buying again. It is just going through its second aftershock.

This is the trouble with forums as a whole. Same as when you used allakhazams to look up important info on a mob, it was speeches about whos dps was better and how exactly science broke haste down....

Folks ... what was intended was a possible solution to the economy only. Can we address that topic and stay on it, offering solutions to the problem rather then debate why hunter made air 10k and hoh 100k.

There is a very real problem in the in game economy, and although some of us do ok, cause we can now farm what we need, others cant, but they are teh ones saying they are broke and sadly, the same ones offering 10k for t4 gear. Maybe, we can try to find a solution to help them figure out how to make pp to be able to afford the gear they want, but only offer you spitshine $$ or " if it rots ill take it"

And damn, i really didnt want to go here, but HoH has tons of gems per mob and shadow, but Hunter, the people that farm shadow and HoH are the people that cant sell anything because we are trying to offer, at least i am, stuff that is Rot to my toons or guildies online at the time. They (the potential buyers) maon about wishing they could offer more then 10k, so apparently they see mroe value in fbss for 75k then T3/T4 armor. I dont knwo hwo to solve that except to suggest making mats or other items tradeable, so that they can farm more stuff like fbss, and make $$

-Xif i come across sarcastic its cause i am, cause i spent all day farming pod, for 2 alts of my own, bought numerous pieces off sellers offering 35-200k ea, and i got flammed in ooc by Rainbow Warrior guild, cause im a jerk for asking prices on stuff i kill.... this is the crap we have to deal with when we log in now P

-Lightblade

At the same time people are trying to get money flowing i have noticed a dramatic drop in SLS prices, Ive seen them go for as low as 80k now. When a lower lvl farms all day to get one the folks that want the sls for augs arent paying what they used to so its a never ending cycle that hurts the little guys alot because in turn they cannot pay the prices asked for a T3 or T4 item. In som instances i have skipped the pp all together and offered trades for items with sls's because i know i couldnt get no where near the cash for it to buy the items i need. I agree it is in bad shape atm but it is bound to get better when it all settles out.

What Xiggie said. After a while, it will just regulate itself.

A DC BP used to sell for 500k. Thing is, 450k of it, or so, was money artificially created by <we still don't know who, but who cares>.

Imo, if an average player can farm 50k per hour in gems, and getting an item (say DC BP), takes an hour on average, the correct price for that item is 50k. By correct, I mean the price it will sell for after the economy settles down from that 2nd aftershock.

Of course, the actual selling price will vary, sometimes 2 ppl get in an auc war and drive the price up. Sometimes, noone wants the item, and the seller has to cut the price, etc.

It's a free market! It should work.

The big problem with game economies in general is that people have this messed up notion that if they saw something go for a high price before, that MUST mean that is the actual value of it. This leads to people pricing things in a way that is unsustainable, and there is always vitriol spewed at people who are willing to sell things for lower than said "value" for "destroying the market".

My take on it has always been that I will sell items for what I consider a fair price for the time it takes me to make the deal. For t2 items, that is usually fairly low compared to what all of the people who complain about "man I can't sell t2 for 200k anymore qq" think is the value as I have my mage with me and can complete a sale in less than 5 minutes. To me, once I get past the price to make the instance, it is all gravy anyway.

I don't know what the economy was like before I started here a couple months ago, but it is obvious that the prices have come down. I know that I didn't bother to bid on a lot of things because of the sellers having unrealistic price minimums on their items and were in many cases, hostile to people who would give them honest bids of what they were able to pay for things. Sure, 50k might not SEEM like enough for a t2 BP to someone who thinks "they used to go for 500k", but that is 50k you would not have otherwise and is 5x the cost of a guild instance to boot.

The reason people do not want to sell a t2 BP for 50k is because the time and effort they put into killing a boss that the buyers (presumably) cannot kill for themselves or at least are having very poor luck is not even worth it to zone out to invite them to their instance, CoH them/clear, and slow down on what they are doing to make sure the customer can reach the area and pay them with no hitches. Augments cost at the minimum 741k platinum to make. That is a huge investment for anyone, and making 50k off of an item is not going to cut it there.

I think the problem just is that people don't have platinum anymore; creating guild instances is a HUGE cut into the plat of the server. By far the best place to farm it is HoH. Guess what you need to get there? That t2 BP. The problem is, we're trying to buy a Lexus on a $14.00 an hour salary, which is possible, it just takes a very long time.

Quote from: JDFriend on February 19, 2011, 12:16:23 am

words

35k for warrior ore is a ripoff and you know it. The real question is, did any one buy it? I highly doubt it. 10k is a fair price for class ore, it drops very often and is not rare at all. Just by farming T1 for my toons I've built up stashes of 6+ ore on each toon easily. So yeah I'm going to voice my opinion when I see someone auctioning a common item for more than what I (and probably many others) feel its worth.

And if you want to pay 30-200k for T1-T2 armor then be my guest, but I've bought 2 T2 BPs (pally/war) for 3 GLS and 35k each. And I've gotten a lot of armor free from either rots or from helping other people kill bosses. Hundreds of ore, class ore, and cloth/leather T1 armor is rotting all the time. Just ask the guy at the tiki if its rotting, 90% of the time he says yes. If you hook me up w/ rots and you are looking for particular pieces yourself, you can be sure I'll get you back if I see the stuff you want, farming T1/T2 is all about teamwork. If you (Lightblade) want to over pay on shit because you're dumb/rich then be my guest but don't expect everyone to pay your inflated prices just because thats what you pay or what you're used to receiving.

And to the people complaining about low ball offers, IF DEMAND IS LOW DON'T EXPECT PRICES TO BE HIGH. If 2 people offer you 30k for some shit in your instance don't complain. You are trying to make money and someone is trying to get the best deal possible. I'm not going to overpay on some item no one else wants just so you can make money. If you don't want to clear your instance for them thats your choice, don't complain about it. Make a Mage to CoTH them, its fucking amazing. And remember YOU'RE the one passing up a sale voluntarily. Not everyone has 500k banked on 3 toons just waiting to be spent. Personally, I am trying to gear my toons and make augs, I don't have the plat to pay 100k per T1/T2 item and stuff like that and still be able to make 200/300k augs at the same time. And if you tell me to "make an offer" you can be sure as hell I'm going to give you a low offer and see what you say, so don't bitch about me (or anyone else) being a smart buyer.

I also find that people are more than willing to trade GLS or SLS for items, if you're low on plat try farming a couple of each. You can make a SLS or two in 45min about if you are fast and efficient.

Quote from: jew_nose_it on February 19, 2011, 02:15:43 pm

So, don't buy it.

I rarely sell drops because it isn't worth the effort it takes to log another toon, wait for them to show up, invite them to the guild, clear/guide them to where they need to go, get them to pay, loot, and leave. Unless it is something that is worth my time to sell it isn't worth it for me to stop what I'm doing to sell it.

I didn't buy it, nor did I have any intention of ever buying it. I simply was stating my opinion that it was overpriced (the truth) and he got all butthurt about it. But him coming on the forums complaining about it pissed me off, mostly because he is full of shit, so I went on my rant.

And yes I agree with you, selling items from a GI has some extra work involved. But for me, since I'd just clear back to the zone in with my paladin, exit the instance, etc; I don't feel its that much trouble and the back clearing is just killing mobs which generally benefits you in PoD and Qvic. Its really not that much trouble unless you are going out of your way (i.e logging in an extra toon just to guild invite someone) to make it troublesome.

Quote from: jew_nose_it on February 19, 2011, 02:15:43 pm

And if you want to pay 30-200k for T1-T2 armor then be my guest, but I've bought 2 T2 BPs (pally/war) for 3 GLS and 35k each. And I've gotten a lot of armor free from either rots or from helping other people kill bosses. Hundreds of ore, class ore, and cloth/leather T1 armor is rotting all the time. Just ask the guy at the tiki if its rotting, 90% of the time he says yes.

Again, attitude of the server respresented by Rainbow Warrior's... Is it just me or does everyone else that reads this see the fact he says he pays 3x SLS + 35k for T2 bp's? thats like 500k? and im insane for asking 200k for T4??? Oh and READ on it gets better, 90% of the time it rots anyhow so if u just wait and ask... you can get it FREE.... there is the real reason he flames me!!! he expects to get it anyhow for FREE...... I hope you learn to change your thinking sometime soon, cause it will not benefit you in the long run Hienzz and w/e else you play...

-Lightblade

Quote from: JDFriend on February 19, 2011, 08:48:22 pm

Quote from: jew_nose_it on February 19, 2011, 02:15:43 pm

I'm guessing you're not a native english speaker so I'll be kind. But yeah try to read a little better. I bought 2 BPs. One for 3 Greater, thats GREATER, lightstones from Fichmulk (pretty sure it was him). And before that I bought a Warrior BP for 30-35k from Mogo. Thats 2 BPs for about 80K (I value GLS at 10-15k).

I bring up rots because you expect people to pay high prices for items, when the reality is that they often can get them for free in pub. So yes asking 35k for an item that is given away is a ripoff. And you never told me if anyone ever bought that 35k Warrior Ore.

Furthermore, you can charge whatever you want for T3-T4 items, I have no idea what they are worth and I'm guessing they sell for 100k+ regularly. My ONLY issue with you was you trying to sell that Warrior Ore for 35k and you got all upset about it and came on here like the whiny no reading comprehension Euro you are and posted about it.

Quote from: jew_nose_it on February 19, 2011, 09:34:18 pm

I bring up rots because you expect people to pay high prices for items, when the reality is that they often can get them for free in pub. So yes asking 35k for an item that is given away is a ripoff. And you never told me if anyone ever bought that 35k Warrior Ore.

Really not sure what your deal is, but 35K is not high at all for ore, especially Warrior. Just because things rot does not mean its free. I pretty much let anything I can't sell above 50K to rot due to the fact that it takes my time to gate, zone, guild invite, go back in, mage COH, create banker, and hoping the guy isn't a total noob and take an even longer time. Time is money, and if I feel that my time is worth more than 50K, that doesn't mean I'm stupid for "declining a sale."

If you want to put that in a perspective, would you be willing to clear qvic trash just so someone can come in and loot something for 5K? 10K? It's a waste of time for players who are looking to upgrade their alts as soon as possible so they can continue doing T4.

Quote from: Reed on February 19, 2011, 10:26:51 pm

Can we keep the flame war out of the Suggestions category of forum.

Take it to Loose Pla... I mean "Rants & Flames"

hahaha sorryyyy. Euros trying to argue with me just fills my body with so much rage.

Lintrix, can you make 50k in 15-20 minutes without doing something against the rules? Because that is how long it takes TOPS for me (I don't even have CoH or banker) to do all that GI stuff. I understand that a lot of people might not consider >50k to be worth the effort to leave their GI and all that, but I disagree with those people. And no I wouldn't clear to the entrance of Qvic GI for 5k. 10k probably, 20k definitely. I don't even bother making GI unless the zone is completely being dominated by someone else. GI just make selling stuff so much trouble comparatively.

Mostly I'm just annoyed at all the elitist players complaining now one will pay their expected prices, when the perceived market value for items fluctuates so greatly between players. I'm going to give you the lowest offer I can get away with, if you turn it down you're the one turning down a chance to make platinum. So yes coming on the boards complaining about how you can't make money when people are willing to buy your items but you won't let them is stupid, because its "not worth MY time". Maybe take off your monocle and stop being so snooty...

Also lol at time is money when you are playing a game that is basically one massive time sink.

Quote from: jew_nose_it on February 20, 2011, 10:00:54 am

Mostly I'm just annoyed at all the elitist players ...[wall of text not worth reading]

You really need to STFU.
You haven't posted anything of worth in game or on the forums. Everything you say is completely your opinion and self serving. That attitude of yours has pretty much let everyone know you are an asshat of immense proportions. You do realize that calling others elitists is a joke right.... since pretty much everything out of your mouth speaks of a sense of entitlement which is by definition elitist.

You won't last here long, your type never do.

Quote from: funkinmofo on February 21, 2011, 05:54:05 am

Quote from: jew_nose_it on February 20, 2011, 10:00:54 am

Mostly I'm just annoyed at all the elitist players ...[wall of text not worth reading]

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x206/Bobtheamerican/funkinmofo01.jpg)
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x206/Bobtheamerican/funkinmofo02.png)

Well funkinmofo...you know what that means for you ehh?

That's right, bend over, hands behind yer head. Nerf bat time

EZ Server

General Category => Suggestions => Topic started by: slaughterhaus on February 18, 2011, 04:06:18 am