EZ Server

Max Epic 1.0 and Max Level 60 for pvp zone, discuss.

Max gear would probably be BoThunder unless I allow Blue Diamond Custom Armor.

Level 60 would restrict lots of stuff like charms, etc.

Maybe have a pvp boss every 1-2 hrs but not millions of plat if that often.

Other rewards too, maybe alternate way to get charm upgrades.

Which zone to use.

Discuss.

sounds gr8.i would make a toon and gear just to do this.lvl 60 would restrict spells and such too so there is no way to supertwink a toon.would be kinda neat to see like crushbone as a low lvl pvp if possible.you could do reward as like the huge plat bag or something.charm upgrades would be nice u could pvp farm yur charm upgrades way ahead of time this way if u put in the work

Would make AA's worth leveling

Would be cool to see a zone that was only for lv 60's, mainly based off of skill. If blue diamond armor was allowed, there would be a HUGE gap between the people with BoT gear and BD armor (like the gap from qvic to t2). This would make the pvp ridiculously unbalanced, which would kind of kill the whole purpose of a low level pvp zone. I'd really like if it were based off of skill, not "Lets see how well we can twink a lvl 60 toon with BD armor! YEAH!!!"

I think it'd be really cool if you could get charm upgrades from this, also. Maybe have some neat items drop, also? Ideas are: weapons that are about the quality of a 3.0, maybe with some real useful pvp clickies on them? Or some jewelry/armor. Or some various other clickies, like illusion clickies. Illusions for these could be various mob graphics, like dune beetles, or snakes.

Nobody charms a level 60. I'd just restrict gear on lvl 70's

One way to deal with someone with BD armor is similar to what RZ server used to be on live. In pvp if u dropped someone u could loot 1 item from their corpse and their coin. If u wear BD and get killed be prepared to lose it.

I suggested environmental stuff in ooc last night and people cried out that it wasn't PVE and they just wanted strict, rock 'em sock 'em, PVP. Personally, I think having some strategy involved is part of the game, knowing your terrain, being aware of where you are etc. I know bringing up WoW on these boards is blasphemy, but capture the flag was a lot of fun and you could definitely use the map to your advantage over people who preferred to just mash keys. If you guys just want to mash your keys that's cool, but personally, I'd prefer to just /random 1 1000 and be over with it if that's the case. That's over simplifying the argument, but I don't really see what environmental stuff would hurt.

I would suggest a zone like Kithicor or LFay if we wanted an open combat sort of zone, and Western Wastes complete with mobs for those who want a different experience. You could even ally yourself with Dragons to avoid them, but still have to watch out for burrowers, AE's, etc.

Without BD armor you are just going to die way to fast to even be worthwhile in the zone.
If/When we get this going I'll show you what I'm talking about ;)

Players could technically farm their RoA as well at level 60, unless I make the RoA level 70 only.

That might be a solution for a lot of stuff we don't want to allow in level 60 pvp is make the gear level 70 such as RoA, Charms, BD Armor, and other ranked items, etc.

So maybe all custom ez server armor would be level 70 required, and no flags allowed (No CG, FG, 3.0 flags).  That should help to keep it fairly low level pvp.

Just need scripts to limit 1 IP allowed in zone, and tracking of pvp kills. Prefer perl quest code rather than custom source since I rather just used the standard source code from eqemu.

Will make a vendor with pvp armor to buy as well. Hoping to make a lot of stuff, full suit, clickies, etc.

Update:

Making zone 'commons' a level 60 pvp zone for now. Might move it to another zone later, but using this for now for lack of better ideas.

Commons is now a static zone.

Having a multiple points of entry into the zone in addition to 30 seconds before pvp flag is on should help players to zone in and get established before getting ganked.

Must be level 60 or under and have no flags for anything (Casters, Crafter, Fighter, 3.0, etc).

Following items have level requirements:

65 Charms
70 Ultimate Charm
65 Epic 1.5
70 Epic 2.0
70 Ring of the Ages
70 Shield of the Ages
70 Mana Necklace
70 Sceptre of Time
70 Strike Augs
70 Angry Nerds
70 HP Augs
70 Halloween Pets

For now the Epic 1.0's don't have any level requirement. Not sure if some of them will be over powered, might need adjustment.

Custom Armor from Crafters Guild currently has no level requirement. Since Ring of the Ages no longer delevels players, then I might just make Custom Armor require level 65 or 70. Allowing the insane hp with crafted armor would almost defeat the purpose of finding twink gear like FBSS, Jboots, etc.

Currently I don't know how to limit 1 zone to allow only 1 IP address, or give credit for pvp kills. I know the pvp credit for kills only works if the the whole server pvp flag is on. Even if we give credit for pvp kills then how would we stop players from farming their multibox for kills unless limit per IP, of which even that can be bypassed. Would love to at least give a shout to zone when someone kills a player. That way we know who is dominating so other players can target them.

Will probably make a boss with token drop for armor and/or plat.

Please list any other issues or concerns for a some what fair level 60 pvp zone. Will continue to develop the the level 60 pvp zone and create rewards as well.

Is it possible to have the player that was killed drop a PVP token that can be traded in for PVP gear?  Also, would the tokens be trackable as well for stats at least for total kills or kill streaks?







Team Warmon

I think its possible if the whole server is flagged as pvp, but what would prevent multiboxes from farming their own boxes to get tokens?

I hope that never happens.

I won't flag whole server. Will keep it localized to zones since lot of people don't like pvp.

Yes I can write the code to track who kills who and reward the killer with tokens.
Yes the tokens can be "trackable" in terms that they can be used for rewards.

I'm working through some crap I think will work but it's going to be a day or two before I really get it hammered down. I don't know if Nate has seen this thread yet but he will probably come up with the same solution as me but use a entirely seperate method.
Never hurts to have a couple pieces of code you can pick from.

Suggestions:
- Increase Wisp hp back to 1Mil, or possibly higher, so that the fight takes a minimum of 20 minutes (presuming no interference) using a full group of equipped/aa'd 60s. Alternatively, aim for a 10 minute combat, but spawn the wisp immune to damage for 10 minutes.
- Make the Wisp drop two 1Milpp gems and remove loot drops from Gem Collector in Overthere.
- Prohibit the use of reward items in Commons.
- Do not implement 'PvP' gear/items/clickies.

Perceived Outcome:
Right now, the Gem Collector fight takes a few minutes or less. From what I've seen in /ooc, there are only a few people who have been winning nearly all of the spawns, usually without any actual PvP combat. The changes I've proposed would increase the likelihood of people fighting over the spawn--actually PvPing--for two primary reasons. First, with everyone capable of competing in 60 PvP with just a day or two of preparation, literally everyone from the total noob to an end-game maxxed T7 player would be able to compete on a relatively even playing field. Second, increasing the duration of the encounter will provide people with time to actually pause what they're doing, load toons, get to the zone, buff up, and battle for loot rights.

I'm sure there will be pushback to these ideas. I suspect that this will come mainly from those with years invested into PvE who feel outraged over the notion that a noob would somehow be able to compete on the same level as them at PvP. I submit that PvP and PvE are two distinct animals, at least here on EZ. The ONLY tie between the two of them (currently) is 2 million platinum in loot. I suspect that noobs would compete quite voraciously for that reward in 60 PvP, as it's equivalent to 20 hours of farming at 100k/hr. On the other hand, top end players can make 1Mpp/hr (or more?), while accomplishing progression goals, and there doesn't appear to be much competition.

Either way, it seems wrong to loot 2Mp for 5 minutes effort. Not that I'll suffer if things stay as they are. :)

Why not both? Leave the Overthere in the game with the rewards but implement the suggested changes in commons. I don't think I would lengthen the encounter but more take measure to limit ip's. Whether it be 1 per ip or 3 or whatever. I would allow grouping though so that people can band together if they choose. As far as getting people to actually attempt the commons just increase the reward. Add other mobs in there that drop augs. I don't suggest armor because that allows people to find armor in other zones therefore increasing the mystery of 'oh, where did he find that gear'. Might even go so far as to make it so you can't magelo anyone who is lvl 60.

To be clear, none of this effects me. I don't like pvp. I don't like how it encourages grief type behavior. I just don't think there is any need to take away the upper end one. There should be a reward for being here for a long time and progressing along in the server. Though pvp and pve are two 'distinct animals' they do have things similar. One of those similarities is the longer you are here, and the farther you progress the better you will be at it. Forcing people to only pvp the lower end actually takes away part of what pvp is.

PvP =/= killing an npc in a pvp-flagged zone. PvP is players killing players. There is very little actual PvP happening on the server. At BEST, you're looking at one or two players engaging the Gem Collector every 4-6 hours, and(occasionally) another player zones in and either makes a move or doesn't after seeing who has engaged the spawn (BEST being defined in terms of generating actual PvP combat). I love the idea of rewarding people for pvp. I think plat is a great way to do that.

I believe that a lot of what is limiting PvP at the moment happens to be the gear divide which you reference. Only a fraction of the players on EZ are even geared to compete. Look at the number of people who have posted here and in other threads suggesting/supporting the creation of a tiered zone system for PvP. Clearly, there is support for some degree of balance in PvP. I think that relegating PvP to a non-progression contest in which people can't 1-shot one another is a great way to make it relevant and fair. Keeping the reward 2Mpp makes it worthwhile for even the top end players to roll 60s and compete.

But again, I don't mind waking up early after server reset to get the spawn uncontested and make 2Mpp for 5 minutes of my time. It's not PvP, though.

Again I think that can be accomplished by upping the reward in the lower end. The idea of putting pve mobs in there with augs is to get more people spending time in there to get those aug rewards so that they would be better at the boss encounter. People spending more time in there would offer more chances for them to encounter pvp. Forcing people to pvp the way this group of people or that group of people want them to is limiting.

Server population at the high end is what? 100 actual players? Combining the two zones and giving everyone a ridiculously easy gear baseline is going to make people actually engage in player vs. player combat. If the battle is so ridiculous that it takes TWO HOURS for someone to get a toon to the loot window, then that is STILL a chance at faster plat than all but the very VERY top end players can achieve. If you open PvP up to everyone on an even playing field, I think we'll see more people actually engaging in PvP. Otherwise it will continue to be extremely rewarding, random PvE.

Your views are too ideological. You put a 20 minute encounter out there that anyone who has been on the server a few days can evenly compete and what you will end up with is people waiting until you get down to the last few percent of health and then coming in and agroing the mob and then killing the person engaging it. What you end up with is 2 things, 1, someone who got the reward for 30 seconds of timed effort and 2, someone who will be less likely to first engage. Reputation wont matter squat. Reputation has always been a big thing here on ez. Anyone who succeeds on this server has had reputation to matter to them in some way or another. I have seen many many many people quit because they screwed their reputation all to hell. I have also seen a lot of people do a lot of really good things to fix their reputation because they figured out if they wanted to go farther in this server they were going to need others. Pvp that anyone can get into and be as much of a dick as they want no consequence and all reward will result in a bunch of 12 year old's executing their CoTK moves making that pvp zone, that you've relegated everyone who wants to pvp a scourge on the server. Leaving the other option open allows people to have their pvp without the immaturity that will surely happen with things like 20 minute encounters.

You're right. I'm too ideological. I want PvP to actually have more than one player and a versus in the zone. :)

I am not trying to make anything an insult. I am sorry if you took it that way. I just don't think it is going to work the way you are envisioning it working. I know there have been a number of times where I have an idea in my head and things work out absolutely no way the way I envisioned them to work out.

It's ok. I pretty much read everything you wrote through the lens of:


I can't imagine, given this as a basis of reference, that you would be amenable to any suggestions that would actually result in players actually engaging in combat against other players. :D

Having a mob that rewards you for "PvP" is what this whole argument is stemming from, right? Because that's what I've been kinda feeling. I personally think that having a mob you kill for a pvp reward is a terrible idea. If you want to reward people for pvp, have them get credit from actually PvP-ing. The only problem with this is there would have to be an IP restriction for the zone (1 IP per zone, to prevent people from farming their alts) However, this can be avoided by teaming up with a guildie and just killing each other repeatedly. Not sure how to solve this. Maybe allow players to transform into named mobs that drop the loot, and the person who is transformed gets rewarded for 1)how long they stay alive and 2)how many players they kill. This could help out with the whole "what class is the best?" thing, as somebody who has "the worst" class could just transform into a mob and now just be a mob. Not sure how that would work, but it's an idea.

I'm winning that mob every spawn today but have already spoken to hunter about it and my dps is going to be nerfed to be fair for the lvl 60 range.
Tomorrow lets see who wants to contest the mob when I dont 1shot you.

You guys shouldn't get so caught up in semantics. If you want to be a pvp purist, play on a red server. You can contribute your ideas, what you want to see, etc., but that doesn't make it codified law subject to section 234 of pvp law because this is the EZ server. 

My suggestions and things I would like to see as "one of the people":

Overthere:
-Remove random spawn and replace with 4 set spawns: server reset, noon, 8:00pm, and 2:00AM. Fighting can start in preparation of the spawn, more people will be ready/making plans for it.
-Reduce to 1 Million Plat, add a 5 credit token. Ups the stakes and diversify what can be purchased with a victory.
-I would be in support of an I.P. filter with a one kill a day limit and a removal of bind.

Commons:
-Gear and skill do not beat sheer numbers in a fight where no one can outright one-shot each other. As it stands, the person who can box the most and coordinate their attacks appropriately across class will win. I don't care about this, good for them, just pointing it out.
-Current rewards aren't interesting enough to inspire allegiances.
- I like Xiggie's idea of adding augs. I say just add them to the loot table of everything in the zone and make them class specific. If you want to farm them, you have to duke it out or forge alliances. This would help create a degree of separation since gear is pretty easy to come by but would take some effort to balance.


NOW, before I get flamed, here's an idea for the purists. If Hunter so inclines and has time, he can always hold a tournament that can be registered for in advance, one registry per IP, and access is gained to a specified zone through a flag once you register. Winner gets some sort of unique prize in the form of a credit code. This would take some work on his part or by a designated host, but a once in a while thing could certainly make such events unique.

Just because I don't like pvp doesn't mean I can't have an informed opinion on pvp. It certainly also doesn't mean I don't know how people react to pvp. There are reasons I don't like pvp, part of which I have listed here.

I noticed you said bot armor would probably be the highest, but its a req level of 65 so no bonuses/hp/etc are gotten from it at 60.  Any plans to drop that to 60 or just have us use a lower tier?

Only gear I'm going to really edit is something that is super OP like custom tier armor, or missing quest upon demand (when I have time).

Seems most players are averaging around 5k HP so far.

I said that not to discount your viewpoint, but to highlight the fact that your opinions are inherently, admittedly, anti-pvp. :) You said, "Leaving the other option open allows people to have their pvp...", but unless the current Gem Collector encounter is changed, it will just continue to be a P.v.E. fight. I'm not saying that you're wrong--PvP does afford people on a PvE server yet one more way to exhibit douche behavior.

However, PvP is here. Whether and how it stays is up to Hunter. My suggestions are simply tailored at making PvP encounters fairer, and more common. I would expect you to disagree with them based on the statement I quoted previously. It doesn't make you wrong. But the fact that you started off saying that none of this even affects you does make me weigh your opinions on how the zone(s) should be established with perhaps less gravity. *shrug*

Hunter, are you going to leave reward items usable in 60 PvP?

That depends.

For example, free waypoint and CoH would be a no.

run speed would be ok.

More concerned re: group cure. It's going to negate a lot of the effort that you're putting in to make spells viable in pvp. Guess we'll see, though :)

It will never be balanced tbh. We, the players, can make suggestions that might make it more fun at the very least.

True. Even in original there were classes that were much better than others. Just wondering what's the point of spending time discussing and fiddling with spells/resists if the instant a debuff/dot lands someone can just click it off?

-Agree with the instant cure being not available in the zone.  That would make dots limited at best use as well as affecting snares/blinds/roots.  Also believe having fastest travel would be a game breaker for pvp here or turn into a requisite for PVPing. 

-Agree with some way of restricting farming of guildmates/friends/throw away toons.  Is there a possibility of enabling deity based teams or racial teams per zone?  Sullon Zek was alot of fun with deity based teams; Good vs Neutral vs Evil. 

-Why not have exp loss on PVP death?  That keeps farming of toons down a bit if the zone only allows level 60s in.  You die too much, you have to go farm to get it back.  Admitedly not that hard to do here, but it's a start.  It might add to some people becoming douches, but people are people... this happens regardless of PVP. Good PVP also brings people together through surviving the conflict of said douches.



Team Warmon

Took care of that for the most part.

As of right now, if you are not a Pally or SK pvp is hardly a viable option.    With resists and the healing of the pally/sk epics its is almost impossible to take them down.     I've stacked dots on a pally while he was tanking the wisp and he never got below 80%.      A well geared SK or Pally will just own in this zone.   

Also, as of right now no other toon but an sk or pally can tank wisp solo.   I saw a well geared zerker get owned by the wisp.  My 59 (highest pet available to a Necro) cannot tank the wisp with fiery defender.   

Note, my toon is fairly well geared, resists all well over 200 etc.   

Maybe I need their 1.0 procs to be level 65 required?

I could try to make the cure clickie level 65 required since mostly only level 70 people in tier zones are using it, and it does kind of make it hard for casters to do anything in pvp such as root, snare, and dots.

Might be possible that if a player dies in Commons to make them lose 1 level, so it would add up each time they die.

Going to lower the damage of the super wisp since its hard for some classes to solo.

Its not my intention to make just 1 or 2 classes king of pvp in level 60 commons.

Removing pal/sk procs would make PvE grind a LOT harder for people just starting out.

IMO, the damage of the wisp should be irrelevant. If the wisp hits for 1dmg, or not at all, then it prevents someone from being screwed by taking wisp dmg + player dmg. That may remove an intended risk, but it's probably a lot easier to limit wisp dmg than balance healing classes w/ classes that can't heal, etc. I think balance will require -resists, more than anything. Not being able to fear/mez/dot/nuke effectively means that anything but melee are going to take a dirt nap.

what if you are required to have an item equiped at all times or your,banished from zone.  item would make all resists 0 so that the resist pvp fix doesnt mess with pve anymore.  or make a version of 1.0 that doesnt have proc and not allow other weapon in in zone

was thinking of a reward clickie for 5 credits maybe that would lower all resist by 200 - 500 range, unresistable, etc.

Also, did a ninja nerf.

Paladins and SK 1.0's are now 10 damage/heal.

Cure and Travel clickies disabled for the zone.

After reboot of course.

the resist clicky would be nice to have.