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Author Topic: 60 PvP  (Read 20682 times)
Bobbin
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« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2013, 01:03:04 pm »
Suggestions:
- Increase Wisp hp back to 1Mil, or possibly higher, so that the fight takes a minimum of 20 minutes (presuming no interference) using a full group of equipped/aa'd 60s. Alternatively, aim for a 10 minute combat, but spawn the wisp immune to damage for 10 minutes.
- Make the Wisp drop two 1Milpp gems and remove loot drops from Gem Collector in Overthere.
- Prohibit the use of reward items in Commons.
- Do not implement 'PvP' gear/items/clickies.

Perceived Outcome:
Right now, the Gem Collector fight takes a few minutes or less. From what I've seen in /ooc, there are only a few people who have been winning nearly all of the spawns, usually without any actual PvP combat. The changes I've proposed would increase the likelihood of people fighting over the spawn--actually PvPing--for two primary reasons. First, with everyone capable of competing in 60 PvP with just a day or two of preparation, literally everyone from the total noob to an end-game maxxed T7 player would be able to compete on a relatively even playing field. Second, increasing the duration of the encounter will provide people with time to actually pause what they're doing, load toons, get to the zone, buff up, and battle for loot rights.

I'm sure there will be pushback to these ideas. I suspect that this will come mainly from those with years invested into PvE who feel outraged over the notion that a noob would somehow be able to compete on the same level as them at PvP. I submit that PvP and PvE are two distinct animals, at least here on EZ. The ONLY tie between the two of them (currently) is 2 million platinum in loot. I suspect that noobs would compete quite voraciously for that reward in 60 PvP, as it's equivalent to 20 hours of farming at 100k/hr. On the other hand, top end players can make 1Mpp/hr (or more?), while accomplishing progression goals, and there doesn't appear to be much competition.

Either way, it seems wrong to loot 2Mp for 5 minutes effort. Not that I'll suffer if things stay as they are. Smiley
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Xiggie | Stone
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« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2013, 02:09:34 pm »
Why not both? Leave the Overthere in the game with the rewards but implement the suggested changes in commons. I don't think I would lengthen the encounter but more take measure to limit ip's. Whether it be 1 per ip or 3 or whatever. I would allow grouping though so that people can band together if they choose. As far as getting people to actually attempt the commons just increase the reward. Add other mobs in there that drop augs. I don't suggest armor because that allows people to find armor in other zones therefore increasing the mystery of 'oh, where did he find that gear'. Might even go so far as to make it so you can't magelo anyone who is lvl 60.

To be clear, none of this effects me. I don't like pvp. I don't like how it encourages grief type behavior. I just don't think there is any need to take away the upper end one. There should be a reward for being here for a long time and progressing along in the server. Though pvp and pve are two 'distinct animals' they do have things similar. One of those similarities is the longer you are here, and the farther you progress the better you will be at it. Forcing people to only pvp the lower end actually takes away part of what pvp is.
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Bobbin
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« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2013, 03:43:11 pm »
Quote from: Xiggie AKA Stone on January 28, 2013, 02:09:34 pm
To be clear, none of this effects me. I don't like pvp. I don't like how it encourages grief type behavior. I just don't think there is any need to take away the upper end one. There should be a reward for being here for a long time and progressing along in the server. Though pvp and pve are two 'distinct animals' they do have things similar. One of those similarities is the longer you are here, and the farther you progress the better you will be at it. Forcing people to only pvp the lower end actually takes away part of what pvp is.

PvP =/= killing an npc in a pvp-flagged zone. PvP is players killing players. There is very little actual PvP happening on the server. At BEST, you're looking at one or two players engaging the Gem Collector every 4-6 hours, and(occasionally) another player zones in and either makes a move or doesn't after seeing who has engaged the spawn (BEST being defined in terms of generating actual PvP combat). I love the idea of rewarding people for pvp. I think plat is a great way to do that.

I believe that a lot of what is limiting PvP at the moment happens to be the gear divide which you reference. Only a fraction of the players on EZ are even geared to compete. Look at the number of people who have posted here and in other threads suggesting/supporting the creation of a tiered zone system for PvP. Clearly, there is support for some degree of balance in PvP. I think that relegating PvP to a non-progression contest in which people can't 1-shot one another is a great way to make it relevant and fair. Keeping the reward 2Mpp makes it worthwhile for even the top end players to roll 60s and compete.

But again, I don't mind waking up early after server reset to get the spawn uncontested and make 2Mpp for 5 minutes of my time. It's not PvP, though.
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Xiggie | Stone
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« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2013, 04:22:41 pm »
Again I think that can be accomplished by upping the reward in the lower end. The idea of putting pve mobs in there with augs is to get more people spending time in there to get those aug rewards so that they would be better at the boss encounter. People spending more time in there would offer more chances for them to encounter pvp. Forcing people to pvp the way this group of people or that group of people want them to is limiting.
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Bobbin
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« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2013, 04:34:41 pm »
Server population at the high end is what? 100 actual players? Combining the two zones and giving everyone a ridiculously easy gear baseline is going to make people actually engage in player vs. player combat. If the battle is so ridiculous that it takes TWO HOURS for someone to get a toon to the loot window, then that is STILL a chance at faster plat than all but the very VERY top end players can achieve. If you open PvP up to everyone on an even playing field, I think we'll see more people actually engaging in PvP. Otherwise it will continue to be extremely rewarding, random PvE.
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Xiggie | Stone
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« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2013, 04:50:28 pm »
Your views are too ideological. You put a 20 minute encounter out there that anyone who has been on the server a few days can evenly compete and what you will end up with is people waiting until you get down to the last few percent of health and then coming in and agroing the mob and then killing the person engaging it. What you end up with is 2 things, 1, someone who got the reward for 30 seconds of timed effort and 2, someone who will be less likely to first engage. Reputation wont matter squat. Reputation has always been a big thing here on ez. Anyone who succeeds on this server has had reputation to matter to them in some way or another. I have seen many many many people quit because they screwed their reputation all to hell. I have also seen a lot of people do a lot of really good things to fix their reputation because they figured out if they wanted to go farther in this server they were going to need others. Pvp that anyone can get into and be as much of a dick as they want no consequence and all reward will result in a bunch of 12 year old's executing their CoTK moves making that pvp zone, that you've relegated everyone who wants to pvp a scourge on the server. Leaving the other option open allows people to have their pvp without the immaturity that will surely happen with things like 20 minute encounters.
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Bobbin
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« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2013, 05:07:01 pm »
You're right. I'm too ideological. I want PvP to actually have more than one player and a versus in the zone. Smiley
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Xiggie | Stone
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« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2013, 05:25:44 pm »
I am not trying to make anything an insult. I am sorry if you took it that way. I just don't think it is going to work the way you are envisioning it working. I know there have been a number of times where I have an idea in my head and things work out absolutely no way the way I envisioned them to work out.
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Bobbin
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« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2013, 06:17:42 pm »
It's ok. I pretty much read everything you wrote through the lens of:

Quote from: Xiggie AKA Stone on January 28, 2013, 02:09:34 pm
To be clear, none of this effects me. I don't like pvp.

I can't imagine, given this as a basis of reference, that you would be amenable to any suggestions that would actually result in players actually engaging in combat against other players. Cheesy
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Udeni
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« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2013, 06:26:41 pm »
Having a mob that rewards you for "PvP" is what this whole argument is stemming from, right? Because that's what I've been kinda feeling. I personally think that having a mob you kill for a pvp reward is a terrible idea. If you want to reward people for pvp, have them get credit from actually PvP-ing. The only problem with this is there would have to be an IP restriction for the zone (1 IP per zone, to prevent people from farming their alts) However, this can be avoided by teaming up with a guildie and just killing each other repeatedly. Not sure how to solve this. Maybe allow players to transform into named mobs that drop the loot, and the person who is transformed gets rewarded for 1)how long they stay alive and 2)how many players they kill. This could help out with the whole "what class is the best?" thing, as somebody who has "the worst" class could just transform into a mob and now just be a mob. Not sure how that would work, but it's an idea.
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Felony
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« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2013, 07:20:30 pm »
I'm winning that mob every spawn today but have already spoken to hunter about it and my dps is going to be nerfed to be fair for the lvl 60 range.
Tomorrow lets see who wants to contest the mob when I dont 1shot you.
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Fjord
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« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2013, 07:37:31 pm »
You guys shouldn't get so caught up in semantics. If you want to be a pvp purist, play on a red server. You can contribute your ideas, what you want to see, etc., but that doesn't make it codified law subject to section 234 of pvp law because this is the EZ server. 

My suggestions and things I would like to see as "one of the people":

Overthere:
-Remove random spawn and replace with 4 set spawns: server reset, noon, 8:00pm, and 2:00AM. Fighting can start in preparation of the spawn, more people will be ready/making plans for it.
-Reduce to 1 Million Plat, add a 5 credit token. Ups the stakes and diversify what can be purchased with a victory.
-I would be in support of an I.P. filter with a one kill a day limit and a removal of bind.

Commons:
-Gear and skill do not beat sheer numbers in a fight where no one can outright one-shot each other. As it stands, the person who can box the most and coordinate their attacks appropriately across class will win. I don't care about this, good for them, just pointing it out.
-Current rewards aren't interesting enough to inspire allegiances.
- I like Xiggie's idea of adding augs. I say just add them to the loot table of everything in the zone and make them class specific. If you want to farm them, you have to duke it out or forge alliances. This would help create a degree of separation since gear is pretty easy to come by but would take some effort to balance.


NOW, before I get flamed, here's an idea for the purists. If Hunter so inclines and has time, he can always hold a tournament that can be registered for in advance, one registry per IP, and access is gained to a specified zone through a flag once you register. Winner gets some sort of unique prize in the form of a credit code. This would take some work on his part or by a designated host, but a once in a while thing could certainly make such events unique.
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Xiggie | Stone
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« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2013, 08:13:59 pm »
Quote from: Bobbin on January 28, 2013, 06:17:42 pm
It's ok. I pretty much read everything you wrote through the lens of:

Quote from: Xiggie AKA Stone on January 28, 2013, 02:09:34 pm
To be clear, none of this effects me. I don't like pvp.

I can't imagine, given this as a basis of reference, that you would be amenable to any suggestions that would actually result in players actually engaging in combat against other players. Cheesy

Just because I don't like pvp doesn't mean I can't have an informed opinion on pvp. It certainly also doesn't mean I don't know how people react to pvp. There are reasons I don't like pvp, part of which I have listed here.
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vpisu
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« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2013, 01:52:08 pm »
I noticed you said bot armor would probably be the highest, but its a req level of 65 so no bonuses/hp/etc are gotten from it at 60.  Any plans to drop that to 60 or just have us use a lower tier?
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Hunter
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« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2013, 02:17:38 pm »
Only gear I'm going to really edit is something that is super OP like custom tier armor, or missing quest upon demand (when I have time).

Seems most players are averaging around 5k HP so far.
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