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Author Topic: Warrior 2HS  (Read 23007 times)
Xiggie | Stone
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« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2011, 02:09:23 pm »
With the soft cap on ac being hit somewhere around Tacvi the only improvement you would see with a shield is placebo.
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Kwai
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« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2011, 02:34:20 pm »
Quote
the only improvement you would see with a shield is placebo.

I have been cussing and discussing this very same subject with one of my guildies since she switched to the 1HS/Shield.  She fully believed that the shield gave her greater survivability and I stuck with the 2HS citing PAL Bash gave me another healing proc.

I can't cite concrete numbers across these many months (and a PC upgrade), but I recently switched to shield and I can attest to greater survivability since the move.  Doing HoH in the past... I generally pulled 4 avatars of Heaven and dispatched... rinsed and repeated.  Since the switch I pull all of them from zone to the first avatar of Earth blocking the path and dispatch them there. 

As I said... I do not have hard numbers to share, but my experience has been that 5 avatars used to be very iffy if not deadly and now 7 or 8 are doable.  /shrug  Just my tupence.
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Xiggie | Stone
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« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2011, 03:06:27 pm »
That would be a 25%+ increase in tankability. If there was that much of a difference there would not be any debate as to the shield benefit over 2hs. I have used both, and never seen any difference beyond a 3% or so change in damage dealt to me which is well within the rng margin.
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cerwin
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« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2011, 03:23:27 pm »
Quote from: Xiggie on December 31, 2011, 03:06:27 pm
That would be a 25%+ increase in tankability. If there was that much of a difference there would not be any debate as to the shield benefit over 2hs. I have used both, and never seen any difference beyond a 3% or so change in damage dealt to me which is well within the rng margin.

Pretty sure the difference he is seeing is because of shield block AA, and only slightly because of AC increase.
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Xiggie | Stone
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« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2011, 03:45:42 pm »
Either way, there is not a 25%+ reduction in damage taken by using a shield. I'll log on and parse it sometime and post for proof.
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Fugitive
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« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2011, 04:10:17 pm »
Lets get back on Warrior topic....
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Kwai
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« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2012, 10:03:20 am »
I think we're still on track with the warrior discussion Fugi.  I just noted that if my Pal (Only real point of reference for me, since my War sits during T5 runs) saw greater survival through using a shield then it would make sense that the War would too. 

Next Ice Cube or T3-T4 run I will loot a shield on the War and report back.
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Ogah
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« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2012, 11:07:27 am »
BTW - my make it a shield suggestion WAS based on the ability to tweak the AC soft cap and/or at a minimum add a significant amount of HPs to boost the survive-ability.

I can tell you this - my buddy and I have matching PALs right now (4.0 & t3/t4 gear) - I sword and board, he 2hs. I honestly believe we have the exact same survive-ability.

Part of the bene a warrior would realize though with a shield is no off-hand riposte eating and shield blocks - but that basically puts them on par with PAL/SK that don't dual wield.

Give them the HATE MEAT SHIELD. Give it 20k+ hps, every time it takes a hit, increase hate, and absorb 1-10% of the damage dealt or something. Make them the anger magnet Smiley ALthough, the leach effect could make them invulnerably - you know, like a UC Pal with Kaldars Smiley
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Xiggie | Stone
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« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2012, 03:53:10 pm »
I just parsed it out with my pally and confirmed that a shield makes absolutely no difference. I parsed on the same t3 boss for both fights and did so for 19 minutes and some change on one and 21 minutes and some change on the other. Average hit taken while using 5.0 1hs and a t5 shield is 34,921. Average hit taken while using while using 5.0 2hs is 35,186. That is a difference of .75%. That makes it virtually the same thing and is low enough of a % that it could swing back and forth. There is no benefit to using a 1hs and shield from a tanking stand point.
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cerwin
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« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2012, 06:10:59 pm »
Quote from: Xiggie on January 01, 2012, 03:53:10 pm
I just parsed it out with my pally and confirmed that a shield makes absolutely no difference. I parsed on the same t3 boss for both fights and did so for 19 minutes and some change on one and 21 minutes and some change on the other. Average hit taken while using 5.0 1hs and a t5 shield is 34,921. Average hit taken while using while using 5.0 2hs is 35,186. That is a difference of .75%. That makes it virtually the same thing and is low enough of a % that it could swing back and forth. There is no benefit to using a 1hs and shield from a tanking stand point.

How about dps taken? That should show if shield block is effective or not.
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Ogah
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« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2012, 06:22:18 pm »
Also - survive-ability is also amount of hps so that when you do have a shield in your offhand - you do have 5k+ more hps - although - at T1 - thats half a hit Smiley

BTW - Xiggie's post WAS on dps taken (hit taken) - on average over time would be the same thing. The one thing to consider then  would be DPS dealt at that same time.

How much more damage from each variety weapons for each class?

Warrior dual wielding vs with a shield vs 2hs.

Pal / SK sword and board vs 2hs.

I can image dps taken for a dual wielding is going to be higher than anything else - making it not as efficient to tank. I can then imagine that War / Pal / SK dps dealt with 2hs would be higher than sword and board considering we all get that triple attack, right?

Xiggie: thank you for that parse.
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Xiggie | Stone
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« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2012, 06:43:36 pm »
Well actually my post does not have complete information. Not that I left anything out but there was some data that didn't realize I could calculate and have done so since posting. I also analyzed the dps data and found some surprises as well. I am going to make a new post because because thread is about warriors whereas my parse is about paladins.

As for a warrior carrying around a shield, eq is not built to really support it. A paladin is going to get more benefit from a shield, a warrior not so much. I think it would be a bad idea. A small leach might be a better way to go on it.
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cerwin
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« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2012, 07:04:20 pm »
Quote from: Ogah on January 01, 2012, 06:22:18 pm
Also - survive-ability is also amount of hps so that when you do have a shield in your offhand - you do have 5k+ more hps - although - at T1 - thats half a hit Smiley

BTW - Xiggie's post WAS on dps taken (hit taken) - on average over time would be the same thing. The one thing to consider then  would be DPS dealt at that same time.

How much more damage from each variety weapons for each class?

Warrior dual wielding vs with a shield vs 2hs.

Pal / SK sword and board vs 2hs.

I can image dps taken for a dual wielding is going to be higher than anything else - making it not as efficient to tank. I can then imagine that War / Pal / SK dps dealt with 2hs would be higher than sword and board considering we all get that triple attack, right?

Xiggie: thank you for that parse.



Actually the info he posted just showed average hit taken, not average dps taken. The difference is if shield block actually works then it negates a "would have been" hit, and that removes it from his equation altogether.

In other words Im trying to say that any difference made by shield block would not be apparent just by looking at average hit taken, only average dps taken.
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Jackal1950
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« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2012, 07:41:56 pm »
where a Paladin does NOT get double wield the dps would be different than a Warrior, but it would be interesting to see what a Warrior would do with a shield in offhand and maybe help overall survivability of the class, (riposite and such)
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