EZ Server

Ok. Bards need some love. This is whats up.

Starting this as a brain storming thread. This is what I've cooked up so far.

1. Bard dps is poor.
2. Epics 3.5 and 4.0 song modifiers are the same as 3.0
3. New stun changes have renderd bards very high maintnance.
4. ....


Possible fixes

1. Dps. t3 song is nice. I think there should be 4 of them though. This would probably bring bard dps up to 10k ish
a. Possibly a pet upgrade would be useful. The caster guild pet isnt worth casting as its vaporized if a gnome farts near it.
b. It would be nice to see a clicky proc t4 spell. Something to make melee dps viable. Kind of like the epic 1.0 for the bard. Procs and give the bard and grp feral avatar or something. Or a lifetap even.
c. Give the bard a focus of dots like the sham has?

2. Epic 3.5 and 4.0 modifiers for songs should be much higher. If you put a nice boost on the modifier for these the songs the bard has already could be really something worth using.
T4 or t3 ballad of overaided flame (or whaterver its called) does 4950 damage a tic with 3.0. With 3.5 its the same....booo
Make it hit for 6k with 3.5 and 10k with 4.0

3. Stuns are bad news for bards since hunter took out the aoe in air its been nice. I would love to see the bard have a extra stun resist just to make using melody an option again.


Ok that's it for now.

Deadend

Sorry Deadend, couldn't resist.

What the man says is true - keep in mind that the DS that the bard has will also go up with higher song mods, and that the song mod may possibly be capped in code.

Bards are a plate class - adding a proc to weapons (possibly also a form of damage mitigation? Like New Enchanter's Arm was supposed to be before it was changed back) would make them viable and wanted cross-tiers, and also make them slightly more useful than just standing there singing.

Also, agree with stun resist - either they need stun resist, or a higher chance not to have stuns interrupt (this code is already in! "You shake off the stun effect", it's one of the caster AA's but I forgot which one)

-Clevitsj

Not to mention that they're supposed to be a support class but their buff songs suck.  They do very little to increase the actual dps of the group, I parsed with and without them and there was almost no difference.

Their buffs should be on par with enchanter buffs on helping the group out.

If bards could be made so that they increase the parties proc amount and heal amount by about 30% with the 3.0 and then scaled up to 50% with the 4.0 that would make them a viable class in your group. As it stands right now they are prolly one of the most worthless classes in the game as far as grouping is concerned. Bard pl? That is entirely different, lol.

Agree with initial post.
No increase in song modifier from 3.0 up is just a dirty shame, beside getting more base damage on the weapon itself there is hardly any point working a bard up passed 3.0, it's just a waste of time. I am very concerned as my main is a bard, at least I consider him to be. I have 2x4.0 on him and it's not much of a reward for all the word involved. I often read in threads "work hard and you'll be rewarded" apparently this does not include Bards.

Bards of EZ it's time we make ourselves heard!

Sorry Hateborne, there's someone a little nuttier than you out there..

Diversity enriches us all!  ;)

Doesnt apply to any specific class, what they mean is: Roll a war/pal duo.

Try for a sec to think outside your War/Paly duo box, there's a open, wide world out there.

I was making reference to Hunter posts responding to ppl complaining about quest being too hard (range item) or augs too expensive and saying he won't lower the difficulty nor the price and you got to play the game and work hard in order to get a reward. I agree with that, I worked hard all the way to get my 2 Bard epics 4.0 and I don't get much more than a 3.0, that was my point.

Now if it always comes back to make a War/Paly duo when ppl are pointing out things about other classes it's a bit sad really; and just a hint for you: this thread is about Bards and I do not see your post bringing anything constructive to the topic.

Can y'all assemble near the crypt door in Seb?  Sometimes I need it opened and don't feel like logging on another box. ;)

Hi. I main an enchanter, 4.0'd. I've been maining her for a few months now.
What I was getting at is that the mentality of most people on this server is: You're playing a bard/zerker/druid/... as main? Reroll a war/pally.

Sorry if it came across as being unconstructive, I was trying to back you up by saying all non-pal/wars need love. All of them.

My apologies then, it didn't seem quite obvious to me when I read your first post.

Thinking out of the Box eh.
Well how about this its probably near on impossible to do but i'm not a programmer or anything remotely close so it may actually be doable.
Would it be possible to play a song from our weapon? ie:Like a spell gem slot we can mem into our weapon that actually played when equipped so epic 3 may have a gem slot wich let us play a song(or have effects of a song)when weapon was equipped ,a song of our choice that we memmed into weapon
3.5 would have 2 slots epic 4 would have 3 slots.
duel wielding 2 fours would give you 6 songs of your choice playing when weapons were equipped.We could then twist our regular 3 or 4 songs as normal.
Probably a stupid idea i know but just trying to think of ways to make them usefull or at least a bit benifial for either solo or grouping.Either way we need some love and the 3.5 and 4 should deffo be a lot better than the 3

Ronnie

You can put spells on augs - dont know if songs on augs would actually work for group, and if you'd need to activate them or if they can be worn.
Someone with their own server should test this - Maybe bards can get some song-augs that they can put in their epics, but that would totally up their AFK'ishness tbh.

O_O

...I'm speechless...did I just get beaten?

*examines Ring of the Ages 100*

....nope, not yet.  :-D

Ok on the bards.

A) Bards need something to make them useful cross tiers. As a support class, the scaling needs to be better. The client/server may not support values much higher as it may "reset" and roll over (say cap is 300, we get 301, it rolls over and we have instrument bonus of 1).
B) I think that honestly, the Sorc charm needs to affect DoTs -AND- DD. This would greatly allow necromancers, shamen, druid, and bard spell damage to actually appear on parses as more than just "lolwut".
C) The bard needs some hardcore avoidance or health buffage. My druid has more hp than my bard (until I get him a full set of 1k augs).
D) Modify/Add AAXP that ALWAYS allows songs casting through stuns.

-Hate

Bards are dumb.

You're dumb!

Also, I am assembled, but have no time for testing or ez with irl drama going on. So i'm useless ... but i'm a bard ... i'm barduseless. yay!  :-*

Not but, because.

<3

Also, when I first saw this thread I was thinking - BARDS OF EZ ASSEMBLE! FORM A MEGASUCK!

(Honestly though, plenty of good ideas floating around for bards, and I'm sure Hunter has a few of his own)

Out of context quoting ftw!

I said I was busy with irl drama, so I wasn't able to participate. Also, I play a bard. The things are separate, but bot combined make me barduseless.

That and the 4.0 ratio is only 100/20  :o every other class is bounds better. Warrior 4.0 is 150/28 and we are supposed to be the dps class  :P

bards are dps?!?! O_o since when? =P

To beat a dead horse:

A) Give bards a song proc on 3.0/3.5/4.0 in addition to click. Ex: Improved Ancient: Call of Power.¹
This would be cast on melee attack, so the bard can keep an improved ACP going while also twisting in a few more songs.

B) The few dps songs are such utter trash, Damage is barely enough to register and that is on the occasion the the spell LANDS.  I still suggest that caster armor aug! ²

C) Tack on a *SMALL* healing bonus and cleanse on to T4 spell.<sup>3


1</sup> - Haste 30%, Spell Dmg: 30%, Healing: 30%
² - http://ezserver.online/forums/index.php?topic=1770.msg23867#msg23867 (Go GIMPS Go)
³ - By small, I mean around 100 base. With UC and 4.0s, that might get fairly strong, but with 4.0s/UC it should. The Cleanse part should be maybe 5-10 per tick, so it will scale with weapons, but not become a be-all-end-all MUST HAVE type of effect.

Either way, Yargh...there it is.


-Hate

Put a ninja strike in a bard with a uc and he is comparable dps to other classes.

Ok so I played a bard on live... You people need to understand that a Bard is not and will never be a dps class... They are a support class with there ds regens and wep procs... They get there dps through other classes....

Bards are just wrong. Should have never been a class.

Some things should not be. Remember Cop Rock? Fancy the Bard? Ford Mustang II?

I wish the +30% would effect other people spells and procs. Even if Hunter took the ninja aug from bard it would make it worth it.

In a group all the non drop spells are completely useless with buffs from the nexus. I seen a droppable 100/tick bard regen yesterday, looked nice. from hoh i believe. I put a oracle on my bard and have him sing regen but i dont know if its even working. even with a lvl 25 oracle the diff isnt noticable. Just going to put a strike aug on him and call him a redshirt. when in doubt just throw him at the enemy.

Torgdorr has a queer bard like Xiggie?

It isn't a dish on bards but both of them in vent with thebone and me singing duets about their triumphs while playing their flamboyant bards.... they harmonize well together oh my... to much info...


Its kinda torture they put us through..



Haha

Please Note it Fugitive and I are not singing with them..

the song that increases spell dmg by 30% does affect group members, just casted spells only- wizard t3 nuke has dmg added onto each hit (aprox 7.5k base x5) workds great, it doesn't and shouldn't affect the procs of group members.

the 3.5 and 4.0 clicky is also awesome, given that it's group v2 meaning it hits everyone around them- awesome for rogues/pal/wiz but that's bout all i can see, maybe mage too. I run oom on my wizard quickly and i run out of mana fast on my palading as well. I mention the rogue cuz my rogue will go from full endurance to zilch very very quickly (being able to use opener disc every 30 seconds along with popping other disc's inbetween will drain it fast) hope that sheds a lil light on things.

Please Note my bard sings metallica tunes and none of them black album or after. So stop stereotyping me and besides, What Xiggie does with his bard in his spare time dosen't concern us anyway.

Thanks for shedding some light on that for me lex.

WTB Aincient: Ride the Lightning plz!

Hah there we go!

Ancient: Ride the Lightning
Effect: Storm Blade (v2!)
Add 1000 base dmg proc to all melee attacks and harmful spells cast. GO

-Hate

Ancient: Speed of Cliff Burton or Thunder of.. RIP Cliff you rock !

I love the old stuff too Trog, anything from black on up just seems like they sold out and conformed to make money. Which making money aint bad but the conformity sucks ass.

That "sold out" crap pisses me off.... You all are like little sheep and the media is the Shepherd.... Do you know anything about the band other then you can name the members and you know they cut there hair?

 Go do your research on reasons they "sold out" and get back to me...

I agree with Bone. metallica didn't sell out or go "mainstream". But for a few albums they tried some different stuff that imho sounded less aggressive and too over produced. (by over produced it was less raw and not infused with feeling/energy)

haha ! Talk about eating up what the media sells ya,you just proved your own point  ;)

 Anyone who listens to the speed metal they used to play knows they went mainsteam and when. But your entitled to your opinion as I am mine. And the tail end of funk's post even proves it more. You crack me up, your so enlightened its truly amazing.

Metallica was never a "speed" metal band. Yes they were fast, but not blazingly fast. They were aggressive and in your face and anyone who was into early Metallica knows they were more thrash than anything else. Your statement saying they went mainstream is all the same bullshit that was bandied about when Enter Sandman was first played on the radio as a teaser for the new album. I find it hilarious that people think that getting an album OVER PRODUCED (thanks bob rock) and using studio tricks to improve tonality is considered selling out. While I will say that when Metallica went through the phase of over producing albums and putting out shitty covers I lost all interest in any new material they released. North American metal sucks in comparison to pretty much everything coming out of Europe and to a lesser extent Asia.

 You right, thrash is more word I should have used,even tho they get tossed in with speed metal. I mean hell I didn't say I didn't like some of the newer stuff. But they where quoted as saying,back in the day, making videos was selling-out..then they turn around and do it. I like their vids too,just saying.

 They did conform to the industry, but you kinda have to. And being over produced is giving up creative control and letting someone else turn your sounds in to what they think it should be. But yet again,your kinda forced to at some point when it becomes about the money.

 They rock and always will ! I just prefer the older stuff from when i was teen lol.

Same here. Everything before Justice is golden.

That's BS you both listen to Debbie Gibson and rock out...

 I always wanted to Debbie and Tiffany go at it in say..mud wrestling or jello would work too!

Lol! but only if Chris Farley is the ref!

Two 40+ year old used up former teen "stars" with a dead guy for a ref...  someone is a little sick if you ask me

You have no sense of humor (try google debbie gibson vs tiffany , and the reference to chris farley was based on a comment after his passing by a close friend who said he was up there in heaven refereeing womens wrestling)

If you think I am serious, then you have no sense of humour.

http://youtu.be/ZQ-TmUg3w9o (http://youtu.be/ZQ-TmUg3w9o)

 I'd still hit that,either one ! And you would too..don't lie !! Of course I'm an equal opportunity kinda guy.I try not to discriminate...less they got crowded pants...

Wow....ok man....calm the eff down.
 No, Really, put down the baby, stop spiking it like a football.

Metallica was never a speed metal band no, but they did have a few speed metal tunes. I grew up on punk/metal and then in the 90's came the thrash.  I wont argue with it being a "sold out" band, but mainly why i lost interest in Metallica, was the weak music and too much heart felt words that all started in the black album. A band that Recruits you for the "metal militia" wile putting "metal up your ass" suddenly looked like fkn chumps to me singing  "nothing else matters" and "the unforgiven". The kind of music they were, i liked. The kind of music they became, is just Weaksauce.  IMO they never got there edge back after that, because Hetfield  aged out too far to sound that hard. Even with the release of a new garage days, it sounded more like a tribute to a great band then a great band revisiting great metal.

So paint it how you want. Put it in whatever terms you gotta. cry not about genre. Just know man~
There not thrash or metal anymore.....fkn pussies.

I was more of a pantera guy myself so metallica always was sorta weak, Good in their younger days true,but still weak compared to what my taste were.
 (ABBA FTW)

Old school Metallica fucking owns, but there were a couple songs off the Black Album (although its not actually called that... it's just self titled with a black cover) and the newer albums that i don't mind. I'm more into the Pantera stuff and that too, but I can appreciate good music from any genre.... excpet modern, gay as shit country.

Thread jacked much?
Bards...suck.. i have one. He's emo and .....wait no not this again.

What to do about them....Healers? theres enough of thoes. How about a nice 2700DD so we can throw a sorc on em and they can do some dps.

Oh wait we have that already in augs. meh. If you rolled a bard, just aug him and forget him.

Yeah lets get back to how Trog and Xig sing and sound like shit when they duet.