EZ Server

Spell file 12-20-13 now available.

Ultimate Weapons Stats and Effects reverted to before the modifications that Hateborne made.

Will fix/edit any other stats/effects that I forgot to revert if I find any.

So.....all UW now just have mace effect and no click?

UW Sword has  its effect back, still no clicky effect or killshot etc

..................

So I go to bed, 4 hours ago... wake up and this... no thread, no effects... what the hell happened?

Sounds like it was an accident during reversal of changes.  Hunter went to bed pretty late.  Hopefully will get fixed when he gets up.

woot! thanks hunter

Seems there is no DBL loot in any zone so far except T5.

Yeah Hunter said he forgot to turn it on DB side and it will be on tomorrow reboot.
The zones/npc that utilize Perl script to addloot are dbl in new instances which is why Abyss is working atm (trash and some bosses for stuff like rings but not armor molds).

So this is what UW is now? Or did he forget to add the click and effect back in?

So how about an update on what is going on with the UW? I really miss my click!

Wish I had my log file on so I could copy paste what Hunter said. But he said basically - UW change is how its going to be and stay -
 :-\

That makes me very sad.

well, damn, it would be nice to have some more explanation for those who weren't in game.

Also, why does the original post say that it would go back to the normal effects if in fact that's not the case?

It's like one step forward, two steps back. I'm sure i'm not the only one who's perplexed/annoyed/frustrated.. The whole situation leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

From what i remember, this is how they was made at the start

Hate added the "effects" later
so Hunter has reverted them back to how he made them to start with.

So i assume when he says reverted to before the Modifications made, thats all the mods hate made, not just the recent ones.

But i may be wrong

Yes, I've reverted ALL the updates that Hateborne has done to the UW since some people seem to think he's not qualified to make any changes to them.

For those that missed the drama, here is the rage in ooc chat was so bad I could barely keep up on reading the ooc, tells, and forum post about the UW updates. It is just a very small sample of the comments being made in ooc, and hence the reason for reverting all of Hates updates. The forum topic was removed/deleted, since no point having the update details anymore cause we reverted them and is no longer for debate.

---

Walls says out of character, 'youre just not good at what you do hate'

Walls says out of character, 'they are just going to dig their heels in. Just accept it and realize that hate is the master and gets to do whatever he wants. play if you want or dont'

Tankdan says out of character, 'im done even complaining tbh just do what u want hate idc'

Walls says out of character, 'everyhing you do is needed hate'

Chunka says out of character, 'thats just it....its niot a dps weapon, Hate'

Chunka says out of character, 'gan, earlier Hunter made changes to UW Hate proposed.....every UW except staff saw a nerf.'

Inflammo says out of character, 'Well how about TRYING the weapons for a little while.  Fuck me, he mentioned the change and within 3 seconds, Walls or whatever the fuck his name is was down Hunters throat.'

Genesis says out of character, 'Anyways do as you please, especially you Usurp since you seem to be the most important person here.  Just don't expect any cooperation from Hunter and Hate if you're gonna bitch like a spoiled shit.  I don't see any hope if you go down that avenue.'

---

The tantrum got so bad, people went into cursing fits and had to be muted.

I realize that you can't make everyone happy but people need to slow down and stop freaking out so badly when updates are done. Just give reasonable feed back without insults, and usually things would smooth out or resolve within few days or week. Unfortunately the majority of people in ooc/forums acted terribly at the time.

Nobody really defended the changes, except maybe one or two people that admitted occasionally using the mace.

Please don't punish the server for the few trolls that seem to like lashing out at hate.  I definitely don't agree with some of the changes that he has been proposing recently, but it isn't like I don't appreciate or respect what he has done to help the server.  I think the vast majority of the server, if they do disagree, find themselves in a similar position.

Updated/Modified my above post: ^

I have to agree with marx on this one simply because the above who were lashing out at Hate were ignorant. Walls especially, his rant was out of line, and  the attacking that was constantly going on in that thread was out of line.

No one takes the time to appreciate what Hate does for the server, I just don't believe you can possibly respect what he does if you have to attack him like that a little after an hour of said change.

However, if this is what it takes to get the point across though I fully support it. Sure it takes time to get , I know. But you can't just ruthlessly attack Hate for no reason other than your upset with a change that was in place for a few hours.

Did anyone read what H8 wrote in ooc or on the forums?   He was cursing, ranting and raving more than anyone (well maybe not more than anyone).   The ooc and forum posts were more of a reaction to his derisive  comments and perceived derision to a large portion of the player base than a reaction to the changes themselves.    To be fair, it was pretty bad, on all sides.  

The UWs were wicked OP with all the added effects.   Stripping them down to where they were pre change is frankly a good thing.   They are still very much ultimate.    Now no additional balancing (spells, procs etc) are needed and focus can be on other aspects of the game.    Honestly, the effects were going to be very hard to balance long term.    The mace for example was pretty much an immortal weapon.  

Bottom line, the UWs (as is) are still an awesome weapon, so I hardly see this as a punishment.     This is more like paying off a loan you got from a relative.   They can no longer lord it over you.

I agree that the revert was probably the best thing that could have happened with the weapons. The effects on them were pretty awesome and way OP in some situations.

Also the back and forth from both sides was bad. Sure the majority of the UW users were pist at Hate but his responses (understandably, I would have responded in kind) only pist off everyone further.

I hope in the future we just discourse here on the forums and keep it out of OOC.

I disagree with Hate often enough, and I disagree with Hunter.....but I do my best to keep it civil and respectful. I guess I missed a lot of the nastiness from either not being online or by having some folks on ignore. Sorry you two felt as if you were being attacked.

But....if you mean to say that anyone who disagreed with you is attacking you....well, be prepared to feel attacked again, because I cant agree with that. You're gonna have people disagree with you both....but pretty sure you both know that. You're going to have people voice WHY they disagree with you. I hope thats something you count on, Hunter....because you cant see every result of the changes you make. I'd hope you rely on feedback. Some of us were just providing that feedback.

Please be careful, because it almost seems as if you're grouping everyone who voiced such disagreement with the people cursing, screaming, hurling insults, etc. If you think that was the case, and by your actions and words it genuinely seems you do (to me, anyway) then you really need to take a step back and look again. And if I got the wrong impression, I apologize.....but the way this has been handled it honestly seems as if you're tossing the baby with the bathwater.

The thread that got deleted regarding Hates UW changes wasn't all that bad.  There were mostly posts regarding the heroic resist change off the UW, before I went to bed, I did not see anyone going off on him about the hp/ac changes.  Since Hate mentioned that heroic resists would be going on tier gear, it would be actually be a net benefit to UW holders and the non UW holders (which by design of UW, there should be some) would actually be able to get closer to T8 full resist.

Yeah, I never even got a chance to respond that Hate's last post towards me made a lot of sense, and that while it was a noble ambition, it was a seemingly difficult task. To me, it seems like there should be a survival weapon, a dps weapon, and a caster weapon. Balancing those so that they would be situational to the point where people would use them/change between them would be tough, but as I moved up in tier, I could totally see myself utilizing those options.

I definitely agree that the old weapon was way OP, but as someone who's not exactly at the end of the game with all my characters, I would certainly just choose DPS for now. As I moved up and I would need  HP/resists, and my other chars DPS started to scale upwards, I could see switching out to a defensive weapon.

Well, since I really didn't understand where hate was going for and at first was like WTF, I held my tongue and said lets see where this goes.  I logged off so I missed the babies in ooc, but it is a shame when a few cant be mature about a situation and cause the whole server to get a nerf bat swung with a home run.

Well, even though we all will disagree at times, we should be civil and treat everyone with respect that we expect to receive during those times.

I think there is now a balance issue between the increased difficulty to obtain and now the nerfed version.

I was hopeful this issue was settled months ago when that was resolved by increasing the difficulty was ramped up.

Here's my idea to fix the UW situation.  It's pretty simple.

Change Required level to 75(I picked 75 because that was the endgame at the time), can no longer be used as an alternative progression vehicle.  Which Hunter has stated many times he did not intend.

Fully add spell effects back, end game users can have an OP farming tool.  If that is still deemed too strong

Remove Healing component from Long sword, should tone down on it's OP'd ness or

Needs some spell damage though, the way the server is geared.  Maybe either clicky or proc.

Tone down the exponential growth of the stats,  I think that is the balancing issue not the spell effects.

Dinadas

If AoE was the desire, we also have Angry Nerd 6 right now, which is sort of like 4+5 combined, with 3x dmg, AoE, aggro, etc.

If the effects and click are gone without the possibility of being returned, is there an option to allow aug slots then? 

All I want for Christmas is the AoE back  <3

I think it should be noted that people were complaining not about hateborne's intention of why he was changing, but how he planned to do the changes. I was baffled because the changes looked arbitrary. Did he do testing or something to come up with the numbers? On top of that, it felt as if the nerf was done ninja and then we were told post factum basically if you don't like it, too bad.

As I said several times previously, the proc effects differentiated the UWs enough already. I disagreed that any change needed to be made and still do. Why change something that already works? there are things that could be improved on this server yet time is focussed on things that no one (players) sees as a problem ? I don't get this logic. Moreover, the AE effect, i'm sure for most people who have  UW 8/9/10, was a way to do lower tiers more quickly, because t8 + doesn't seem to be AE content. So, I don't see this as OP.

In my opinion, feedback should be gotten from the community BEFORE a change that affects a large proportion of the community is done. It appears that there is no point in expressing dissenting opinions on this forum or server as we are not going to be heard anyway. I wasn't on for the OOC rage and I don't agree with ad hominem attacks, but I can understand why people are upset.

No one likes nerfs.  Especially when it happens to them, and even moreso when it happens to something that took months of over boring grind for them to attain.  I understand that the UW was supposed to be rare, but anytime such an OP item is introduced you can bet your house payment that players will do darn near anything to get it.  In this case they did and it swung the balance of the game a bit.  Not a surprise to anyone, or shouldn't be.

IMO there was nothing wrong with the UW in any form prior to yesterday.  It did not create an immunity, it just gave a leg up.  The problem was in the response to the existence of the weapons.  Too much whining and crying, and not just from the players.  I have been a Hatebone fan since he started helping here, but in several instances he voiced his disdain for the UW geared warriors.  Much of it tongue-in-cheek I assume, but those comments put a fine point on where we are today.  

Get together and discuss.  Run a vanilla poll.  Realize something that took this much effort to get is going to be a hot button issue and don't press it until you have an agreed on solution that won't cause a massive shit storm.  

I hope we can get back to work here and come to a simple solution.  Where we either revert the weapons back to where they were before this nerf or revert the quest to where it was prior to ToFS/EON/EOP essences requirements.  I would highly suggest one or the other happen ASAP to calm the masses.

Which only benefit 7.0+ players which is kinda what some of these guys are saying. They have worked UW1 or working hard but making it so they can make something like the AN6 aug before they can use it in their weapons is pointless to them. When the UW effect worked good as an agro proc. it was a good alternative to this.....*just a statement after talking to a few players* ignore if you want.

While i may not agree with most of the changes i for one am very thankful for all the work you have put into the server hunter and the help that other players have giving in help, i.e. Hate and Nate. and all these ppl getting butt hurt over the game and acting like 2 yr olds in ooc and on the fourms guys just remember, Yes i forget this sometimes to, This is a freaking game if you dont like what they are doing to it or dont like something that has been done just quit no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to stay here or play. We all play this game b/c we enjoy it so shut up and enjoy it and be thankful that hunter even allows us to play on his server b/c remember it is HIS server!

Yeah not exactly months of time but I spent two weeks leading up to this double loot in HoH for a average of 5 hours per day farming enough tokens to hit 100 of just one type of essence.

Other essences are worse so yeah months actually fits the bill.

I just want it noted that since the click was removed from the UW sword I am having a hard time holding agro in T6 with more than 1 mob. This is leading to multiple deaths of my healers and it's quite annoying. I have yet to get a hold of a AN6 yet, so maybe that would help but for now it's a lil rough. Any chance we could get like a rampage effect on the sword of something.

Use anger 5's in off hand?
I think a cyclone blade effect on weapon would be cool but it might be a case where you need to stick UW in offhand and epic in main hand.

That was the plan in the works for near future until people freaked out and wouldn't listen.

Why can't there be a discussion about changes before a change that affects many people happens? Maybe this is a way to minimize people freaking out.

i say remove the UW, refund the essences and over time create augs and items with clicks that have similiar effects to what the uw had. imo the uw was overpowered because all the effects and clicks and stats were on one item. if you create a multitude of items with those effects or clicks spread out across all those items you have more control over building content around them and control over whether the items effects will stack or whether they will be a part of a lore group to restrict the click effect usuage.

Remove all the HP and Heroic Resist from UW would balance it.

Then you would need to survive just like any other non-UW player, if you want the privilege of extra DPS, AoEs, etc.

that would work as well then it would not be the end all be all for near invincible tanks it would essentially be an alternative to aug farming for non tanks and you could tune it around that

Except not every class has alternate ways of getting AEs.. Im not sure if SKs get AEs, but paladins sure don't..  Now there's even less reason to get a UW on any other char but war

If the issue is aggro, both paladins and sks get Dread Gaze which is aoe aggro.   Paladin gets Crusader Fury which is an aoe dmg proc.   SK gets multiple spells that do aoe dmg as well.   

No, not aggro.. I'm sure for the people who got UWs on paladin or Sk the AE damage was one of the reasons why. I don't know how many people did but I know  a few

Tanks just need to live and keep aggro.   Use other classes for DPS.   Wizard, Zerker both uberleetfree AOE dps.  


The UW was ultimate before the effects were added.   It is still ultimate now.   Watchyoudie, you have a UW1, not that much time invested really.    Adapt and overcome. 

I'm done talking about this. I just think the actions taken here are in poor taste.

Can't even seem to come to a consensus on what makes it game breaking

the clicky effect or the massive stats.

I vote the stats are more game breaking.

The ultimate weapon is a large part of the reason I don't play on this server anymore. It made everyone end game. Doing things like is being done right now is just putting more band aids on it. Want to fix the ultimate weapons? Make them augs at 1/4th what they were before. Do the same thing to their proc's and clicks. Drop it to 1/4th. Put an item in game that cost 50m plat to make that you can combine with your ultimate weapon aug that will make it tradeable so that people can move them from one toon to another if they wish. Or sell them for that matter. Slowly over time reduce the amount of stuff to make them to a comfortable level that fits with the new stats. Until something like this happens there are going to be way too many people end game. I have 3 UW so this would effect me a lot on this server but I think it is a change that needs to be made.

i agree xiggie +1

I think turning UW's into Aug's at 1/4 dmg (white + proc) is good idea. Remove stats/hp. Maybe slot any aug type slot, and make them non-lore? Still time consuming to get.

Main tanks would still have to survive from their other gears stats.

Seems right now the only quest that is so hard that nobody is doing is that Earring of the Ages for 50k AA per rank.

UW was meant to be rare, and some how more people got them than I expected. Do we really have that many hardcore players doing 12-18 hours per day here? I thought majority of the players would have been more casual than that =P

I could easily make a quest npc that you hand them a 50 million platinum token plus no-drop item to get a 'cd key' in return that can be redeemed for that item id at the Key_Master NPC

The EoA stats at lower ranks are not worth the AA invested.   I think that is why people are not farming it.  At 10 ranks of EoA (500k xp) you start to get => T7 earring.    RoA is a better ROI. 

I think we do have that many hard core players on the server.    Not sure the exact stats but I would think 90% or so are hard core.  Heck, we are spending X hours a day playing a 14 year old game, that is either hard core or insanity, maybe both.    Couple that with trading/buying essences and UW is not unattainable.     

Players are going to work their arses off to obtain the high end gear. 

I play about 2 hours a day.

I took advantage of DL weekends to get up to UW4, and am 60% of the way towards a 5.  All pre-changes.

How many people would rage if I changed stats on UW to 1/4 of before, and morph them into Ultimate Augments?

This would get me trying out the server again. Actually made me a little excited about it.

I'm for it, I'm just tired of the same old epic graphics, that's why I liked the idea of UW outside of the fact that it's l33t

This is a total farce. I didn't spend all that time (and money) just to complete it and then have to start over again. I would quit for sure.

make a slot on all epic weapons starting at what like 3.0 up that only uses UW aug ? this was we can use our augs on 7.0 up?


Edit:
does this mean that we will get back 3/4ths of the work we put into this ?

So change the UW to 1/4 of what it was? I only have UWII and it was a ton of work, to lose 3/4of that work seems a bit harsh. Can't imagine how peeps will feel who have UW9+.
I don't see why when we Nerf things we have to make such large jumps. Why not nerf it incrementally over a time period so there is some sort of testing on its affects.

What if you started this process on upcoming content.  Could meld it into those new Epic weapon ideas you and hate were working on.

I have 3 UW, this would effect me profoundly. I think it would effect the server in a very positive way. I feel for the people who donated to buy this but you did so in a server you know is ever changing. Yeah I would lose a lot of what I put into the server but I would get a lot more out of a good server than what things have become. There would be a lot of crying and whatnot but I think the server health would improve after the shock of it all. Incidentally I would leave the stats on there, just cut to 1/4th of what they were. A general cross the board cut. I would also add an aug slot to every weapon in the game. An aug slot just for the ultimate aug.

I don't feel the spell effects are the game changing ability, but a 3/4 nerf on them alone would be terrible.

It would put the Ultimate 4 aug at 25k, the new nerds VI's are 22.5k

I think the 1 mil+ hp stat is game changing an impossible to balance around.

Make it have stats of an on tier epic maybe x2 and the old spell effects and people may be happy, or make the aug double stats of epic you put it in and have the old spell effects.

And honestly Hunter, I think no one is doing the earring because after all that time and effort you might have a change of heart and god mode earring is no more, and no one wants to get screwed.

i vote for it i love the idea. sounds like a good compromise

If it's going to happen, i'd like to know so i don't spend more time on this game

+about 20 other people

Ok i don't get it. i just don't. why all this hate on the UW? It has been in-game now for what, about a year. Why dangle something so go, that it is worth stopping everything else you are doing to go get, only now that "more people than you wanted to have it" have it? if it gets nerfed by 3/4 do i get 3/4 of this last year's woth of play time back? do i get all the RL time i spent here farming for it what i could have spent doing other things back? how about all the crazy fluctuations in essence prices do to it, do all the many lower tier players get their pp back? i remember discussion when it first came out. zones would not be based off of it. if you have it it would simple make it easier to break in, bonus for you. t7 should be based on a 6man fresh out of t6. sure would be had but should be doable. same for t8, less than 3 groups, fully t7 gear, over some # of resists should be able to do it. that would put the main tank in range of 1 million hp, 7.0's and possibly a whip. Go try t8 with 1m hp and see how much fun it is as it is right now. there has been discussion about what to do about nerfing UW for months now. and the one likely to get jumped on is make it practically useless? how many people will permanently leave over this? if i had know this might happen 2 weeks ago i would not have sent in that $350, specially to do things to work on upgrading my UW. so now in a very real sense i will be out some cash and have nothing to show for it. sounds liek a scam to me.

so, my UW6 is, instead of being Ultimate, will now be changed to an augment and make my 7.0 'above average'? Wow, that seems like a great investment for all the cash, and time I put into it, along with 600 ess's...

Do a half stat UW aug, and give full strength AoE back if you feel you HAVE to make a change to an item that has been in game for a year now.

What about the people who donated to the server and now find it a farce because of the UW? UW have trivialized the entire game. I can do more with my warrior than I can with 3 groups of toons without the UW and my warrior only has UW8. If the change is made, people will complain, they will come here on the forums and shit up the walls. But the overall health of the server will improve over time. Sure some adjustments will have to be made to the content and that will take time. But these are changes that are good for the longevity of the server.

From what I read from Hunter's post.  He was simply asking an idea.  If you don't like (and I'll admit im not a fan of that method) the idea, how about we give him other ones?

When is the last time you played ? There was a big glitch with the war BP that has been fixed that allowed that.

Wasnt a glitch was just working as unintended.  Was way too powerful of a worn effect.. made you have about 85~to90ish riposte chance AKA.. GOD mode.

Most people did not donate for it, but did donate for reward items that helped them to get it (FWP etc). Most people spent a LOT of time getting essences, the plat, the tofs essence.. They did it precisely because they wanted to get UW, not for any other reason. To trivialize it is tantamount to  trivialize people's time and effort, which depending on how they got it could be months of work (and sometimes money).

The fact that so many people have UW is not because it was easy, but is a testament that there are many people on this server that are hardcore.

Has anyone completed t8 without an UW? Can that even be done?

The only thing that made me spend all that time and effort in getting it was because the UW was ultimate, not because I didn't have better things to do. Hell, I would have preferred not having to do it if i didn't have to to progress. If i had known it was all for absolutely naught I wouldn't have even started on here.

Also I totally disagree this would be beneficial for the population. No one in their right mind is going to do anything that takes considerable effort knowing that in a drop of a hat, it can be rendered useless.

I think at this point you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I agree that the UW should not be necessary for progression.  I do not believe T8 and especially t9 can be completed without it.

I do feel that the nerf (and preferably the removal) of the UW would be best for server health, but for this to be possible t8/t9 would need to be seriously hit with the nerf bat as well.

And this is why recently I decided to work on UW. I figured the time past the changes that were going to be made to UW would happen within the first few months. I know how things work here and something like this was bound for heavy nerfs since the start. Mind you, it took a lot longer than I thought and I was actually going to finally put fourth the work to build one up now to see at that drop of the hat moment it's going into the works of nerfing the UW down. Understandable, might I add. The item is what one would desire, the power to hold the strength of a few groups in the hand of one character, your main - Warrior.

But instead of always maliciously attacking a new idea or concept to the UW , how about input ideas, changes, things that might not be as bad. Mind you, as it stands , 1/4 of what it is would be a gnarly drop and wouldn't at all (at least imo for the work required) be desirable at all unless you had free time.

So here is what I propose, HALF the stats, into an aug, OR the choice to keep it a weapon and add strike augs (make each way different and desirable and appeal to different taste) weapon could be for dps purposes with 1/3 the health, and the aug could be 1/3 the damage. Just ideas to throw around, I'd hate to see it become undesirable because I was really intrigued and interested to finally get a bite at the UW and get a taste of what others got from getting it.

As I said earlier, I really thought the Nerf UW train had left the station a few months ago when it was made much more difficult to obtain, but here we are again.

Idea keep Uw the way it was make uwxi + almost impossible to get. yes it will let people catch up and stuff but then maybe we could all start playing together instead of just doing our own thing ?

I think it would benefit the server as a whole to kill the UW in ALL its forms and make content geared towards gear/epics...not towards a single tank having an UW....would kill more than one bird with one stone too....could fix it so that paladins/shadow knights could tank the content as well so everything isn't based around HAVING to have a warrior as your MT.  I do agree with Hateborne on that point...was just kind of a bogus way he had of getting the point across with this last batch of nerfs.

Think Xiggie is on the money with this idea.

+1

I think I would take the 100 essence requirement at that point and make it 50 if we're dropping the stats.

Just make sure to refund those with UW 50 essences per rank ;)

or get 2 augs when u hand in , one for each epic

Login, play, then talk.     You don't play now so have no idea what is going on.     The server was here before you, and it still exits without you /shrug.  

The immortality of the UW came from the Warriors Way and the ridiculous OP effects that were added to it.    You are far from immortal now with a UW.    Really, just log in and give it a shot.  Run your team in T8.  

Any changes that occur will definitely require some more refactoring in the high tiers.

I have played since the change to the warrior bp. I generally make it a point to not post when I am not playing on the server. If you are not playing the server then you don't know the dynamics of what is going on. However the UW is still more dps than an entire group without the UW. The UW still makes a warrior more survivable than an entire group, or 3 groups for that matter. It doesn't even take T8 to understand that. The UW broke this server period. Everyone can be end game with one. Sure make the UW harder to obtain and maybe 2 years or so down the road when the drones of people who currently have them finally quit the health of the server will pick up. Or you can just do it now. Nerf what should have never been put on the server in the first place. It started with the Halloween weapons and now it is with the UW.

Right now you have the people who can't get a UW because it is too hard/have a lot less UW's and you have the people who have several of the UW. Who do you balance the content for? If you balance the content for the people who don't have several or any UW then the people who do have several UW scream about how the went through he new tier in less than a week. If you balance the content to people who do have their UW's then it is too hard for those who don't and you have people screaming about how the UW needs to be made easier.

As for the people who threaten to leave, I promise you nerfing the UW, turning it into an aug and then tweaking the content to fit the new firepower will result in more people coming into the server than leaving. Of all the years I have played on this server I have never seen anything threaten this server as much as the UW's.

Nah not true, Redtwo complains non stop about how he cant beat T8 with a UW9.
/whistle

Lol

If hunter does do this then whats happens to the essence of 100 XX that we have already? can we get a refund? just curious how he will look at this

The health of the server seems fine to me.    We get new players every day.   I think more people enjoy the UW and other items that Hunter has implemented than dislike them.

The UW, as it was originally implemented does not seem game breaking.    Not quite sure a UW will out dps an NSX augged monk, ranger or free dps wizzy either.  if so, so what?   it is ultimate, it was worked for and it was certainly not given.

server ecinomy is thriving, population is up.    whats the problem.

players here are passionate and will get the gear!

moar pellets please!

lol@felony

I only have UW5 and am still finishing T5.  I can agree that the UW has been OP since it's introduction.  However, drastically  changing stats on the weapon that folks have spent months on is disheartening.  I, like most, have donated for many different rewards and to assist in completing additional UW ranks.

While I hate the fact that the weapon I've spent months and RL money to obtain is being crippled, I do believe it should be balanced.  

Option 1 - revert UW to full strength minus huge HP values.  This will keep the DPS that most use but removes the enormous hit point pools that the UW alone provides.

Option 2 - update the UW to be an Aug that can be incorporated into any epic.   Leave all stats between 35-50% of current levels but leave full proc/click strength. 10 million conversion.

Option 3 - balance UW stats to match comparable epic stats but add click/proc strength.  

Option 4 - update UW to be 40% previous stats across all UW, except HP.

Option 5 - remove UW, refund essence and add nerds 6 to T5 and Nerds 7 T7+.  

Just ideas, in which all are nerfs to the UW as it was previously but still allows people to benefit and still want to obtain it. The weapon as it stands is still awesome, but the click and other effects are missed.

man felony, talk like that ... want to come to my house and %^&* my dog why you are at it ?

I made the post about 1/4 stats before going to bed, and got the reaction I wanted when I woke up, more feed back and ideas. I'm only throwing ideas out there, nothing has changed anymore than the revert, and probably won't change anything for at least a few weeks so I have time to think about it, listen to all the feed back, and time for players to calm down.

Staying on track with the actual issues, players wanted their HP, Resist, and AoE on the UW, right?

Since reverting Epics to before Hateborne did any adjustments, we now have original HP and Resist values, minus the AoE. So the current complaint would be the AoE?

I'm toying with an idea of using an unused aug slot type, like type 30, onto the Ultimate Weapons.

Then a new Ultimate Quest, most likely harder than the original UW Quest, to create ranked Ultimate Augments that you can choose and select what style you want. Maybe AoE dmg, or maybe dmg and heal focus effect, maybe HP Rune Effect, etc. This would allow players to customize their UW's to do what they want without having to give up their precious sword graphic, and without giving up their AoE dmg (if you put the time in for that additional quest).

I've tried to balance new content to be do-able by non-UW players, and yet still a challenge to UW players. This is becoming impossible, and I guess I'm going to have to admit that yes new content will require you to have an UW on your main tank by the time you get into T8 or higher.

I've underestimated how many hardcore players we have, and how hardcore they can be, that they will at all cost absolutely must obtain best item in game. Yes this item seems like god-mode but its also reward for time invested. Its fun playing in god-mode sometimes. Heck, I personally exploited in Skyrim with I think was enchanting + alchemy crafting to cycle up a million damage weapon that ended up being god-mode in game as long as I didn't run any patches to update. I had fun. I understand wanting to have best item in the game.

Since we're at the point of admitting that UW is required for future content, the best I can do to balance things out between an UW Tank and the non-UW group members was the spell resist, being -4,000 from Single target DD, and -1500 AoE, so that group members only have to farm ToFS to get their resist about -1500 in T8, while the main tank should have UW + other resist armor. Lets not forget, that I've removed AoE Rampage from EVERY mob in the game, which further helps group members that don't have UW. Anyone remember end game having to make your group sit out of the fight, else the AoE Rampage would wipe your group? This is gone, removed! You can now join in if your main tank can survive.

Continuing this path, I'm also toying with the idea of removing 50% of the Heroic Resist from UW's and spreading them out across tier armor. I'm not sure what tier I'll start at. If I start at the beginning, then it'll be small increments. The UW IX has about 900 resist? So then I'd remove 450 resist off that, and spread those 450 resist across all the tier armor, so by the time you get to T8 ToV, a full suit of armor would give you +450 Heroic Resist. And if your main tank has UW IX then that is another 450 resist for the original 900 resist that you'd have anyways. The benefit is now EVERYONE else in the raid has additional 450 resist on their toon! This bridges the gap a little bit between UW and non-UW toons as far as Resist.

Now, getting off topic, it was being expressed how Hateborne is not qualified to edit UW. Ok, fine, I've removed all the work he's done on the UW, including the AoE which was something that Hateborne made. Now you'll have to soak in your own piss for a while with the reverted changes, and think about how you act while giving feed back on changes next time.

The ideas I've just posted in this reply here are just ideas I'm toying with. I'll continue to listen to more feed back before I make any changes. For now I have no plans of removing the Ultimate Weapons. I realize that a lot of people spent a lot of time to acquire. Lets discuss how to move forward, make them worth having, while trying to balance custom zone tier content best we can. I remember when plat had no value, nothing to spend it on. Now we have ooc people trading plat, essences, and other stuff. There is an economy going on, even if the end goal is god-mode item. It gives players something to work on after they already have full tier worth of armor. So far this is successful, its keeping the hardcore players busy with something to do.

As for the non-hardcore players, that is probably for another topic. If there are so many of them, then they need to form guilds and work together. Work together on getting your main tank geared out, and enough healers to keep tank topped off each round. Seems the majority of the players here are hardcore, over 120 UW and only 400 online? Sort of speaks for itself how much of the server is hardcore.

Just waking up, haven't proof read this yet, so hope it makes sense.

I don't have a UW, and chances are I never will, but I notice nobody was telling Hate how much he sucked when he was adding clickies and spells and fixing broken shit.

Most of us werent telling Hate he sucked. Most of us were giving feedback, and telling Hate that he didnt see the entire picture. Some of us still dont think he did. Thats NOT an insult to Hate, its just the impression some of us got. he isnt infallible. None of us are, and its often easy to miss all aspects of these issues, no matter HOW good you are.

And Hunter, please understand that IN NO WAY implies he isnt qualified to work on things. Just as with the issue of the BP months ago, sometimes you guys dont catch everything. Often you dont see the entire picture, and (as you've told us before numerous times) you rely on feedback. Some of us were providing that feedback. Were some being assclowns about it? Entirely probable. I wasnt around for most of the crap, and some of the participants I believe I have on ignore.

But please understand that any criticism some might have of the entire issue isnt a slight on you OR Hate (again, except for a select few douchebags) but is rather trying to bring to your attention things you both may have missed, or not realized.

Ok, all that aside, to be frank I am glad to see a lot of whats been posted lately. Great ideas on fixing an item that was, in all fairness, pretty game breaking. I like what I am seeing. It also seems as if aug type selection on this new system can really help customize class roles, much in the way Hate was talking about customizing knight roles.

+20066

Heroic stats on tiered armor is one of the things I've really wanted to see happen , and in the end, you lose nothing except gain more heroic stats across the board on your other characters

My suggestions:

-Cap the hitpoints on UW at ~1 million so all future content  in the years to come can easily be designed without some tanks having twice as many hitpoints as other tanks.
-Heroic resist idea seems ok.. but its already easy to get our alts the 2k resists or whatever it is they need. 
-I seem to be doing okay without the AOE on UW. 

Should us "non-hardcore players" leave ?

You non-hardcore players should stop being anti social and try working together more and/or work out your boxes/classes/gear combos.

Is that what Fugi and all the others did within the first few weeks of the introduction of the UW ?

If you want to know how or what Fugitive did, then ask him when you see him again.

Lets get back on topic, and stop derailing/trolling.

Here's a story for everyone. Once I knew a guy named Peign who was a super cool dude. Recently I noticed he was being a huge dick. I finally realized why.

So....


If (Work hard for your shit) {
    Get rewarded
}
Else {
   Stop complaining
}

I believe you still want the UW type spread yes?  Excluding the heroic resist change for tier gear...

Assuming current UW
Sword - Add AoE back, stats keep as is
Mace - Add +50% Heroic resists compared to sword (Keep heal proc maybe)
Staff - Add +100% Heroic resists compared to sword (add heal proc)
Dagger - ??
Bow - ??

I'd bet you many people would switch to mace/staff weapons for current tier content but would then love using sword while doing lower tier content.


Lowering the increases of certain stat values such as Hp and Heroic resist on Future UW ranks would help equalize some content.  I'd imagine most people would be ok with either not creating a new UW rank for Tier 10 and beyond (since no one has them, cept hunter with his XII) or a very Minimal increase on future tiers.  This would allow you to start closing the gap between what would be needed for UW and non UW boxes.  Yes, it might take a few more tiers to equalize but it would eventually happen.  This is a Huge situation you have going on, gotta think long term solution.

Adding heroic resists to Tier gear will go hand in hand with the above suggestion.  Eventually normalization will occur for your group and your warrior where UW won't be as needed and hopefully, at some point, not worth it to continue making.

You realize the QQ that Warriors would do because they are no longer special after all the hard work they put in?

The UW in future content will continue to put the toon above others, especially cause of the time invested to get those.

We need to spin it a bit differently and take another approach to keep the peace.

Getting new players and keeping new players are two highly different things. I think UW will be a greater deterrent to players as they figure out how it is to be claimed if you are actually forced to get it. It's a step backwards for anyone who works through content without it and doesn't want to spend months farming it just to continue progression. I'm personally not interested in the idea of hitting T8 or T9 and figuring out it's impossible without back farming 7+ Tiers I already defeated for months on end then grinding out plat endlessly just so I can continue what as it sounds is intended to be doable without this.


This right here leads me to believe if it was named "The Fluffy Bunny Slayer" and had the same requirements you would be fine with it being garbage. Just because the name is Ultimate doesn't mean it should be several times greater than your epic or equal your entire gear pool. It's still technically ultimate as long as it is a superior choice to your other options. I understand that it's a drastic farm and you feel entitled after you farmed and/or bought this item, but it shouldn't forcibly break the content curve because you can't accept that it's over-tuned. Granted I'm not saying remove damage. I do think shifting Heroic resists is a large step in the right direction to balancing the server without, as you guys have been saying, making the UW feel unworth. I am under the belief the other problem is the health pool it offers to you as a tank. I think that should be a much less drastic number and would make balancing content to both player types much easier. Damage checks can be overcome by just adding more guys to your squad or buddying up with other people to push content, but getting one shot because you don't meet a health check because you didn't spend months farming is just a crushing feeling. I'm fine with you guys having nice effects on them too. Heal procs, AoE clicks, Rune clicks (On decent CDs such as UC length), even a strong single target click for helping push over bosses is all gravy because it's not going to push you so much further ahead that it breaks content for those of us who don't have them and aren't interested truly interested in them til we've been there and done that with all the content.

I know not having one makes me see half the picture, but I believe just patching the huge resist and HP gap created by it will honestly help the balance of everything overall.

Far less QQ than removing it or nerfing currently owned UW ranks

I am starting to think that it would be good idea to cap how much HP is added on them after UW IX.

I realize this would be a nerf, and yes people will QQ about it.

Right now UW IX is 1M HP, then goes 2M, 4M, 8M.

Instead of double HP, might cap to adding 500k each rank after rank IX.

Undecided for now, but good chance of doing that route on HP.

Balance content around Tier gear, not the carrots. UW, RoA, SoA should not even be part of the equation since they are HUGE time sinks.

The casuals can progress with their limited time, the hardcore can play god-mode.

I think you have to balance around Shield of Ages, no real other source of that buff, and people just have to deal with that one.

I think hitpoints on the Uw should hard cap at 1 mil, I don't think you would have to balance around an additional 1 mil hp on your tank vs your army.

That gap would decrease over time with epics 8+

I'm for stripping all HR off the UW and spreading it out through the tier armor.  That's a win/win

I only have a rank 4, is the white damage of 7+ an issue that needs a cap?

RoA Balance has never really been an issue. SoA honestly is something a player should be fine with sucking it up for. It's pretty close in time sink to dps augs.


I honestly don't think all of the HR should be stripped. I do think having it should enable you to lighten to load of resist aug farming as you've traded off that time for a weapon. I do think some should be removed and spread to tier just not all of it.

I honestly don't think all of the HR should be stripped. I do think having it should enable you to lighten to load of resist aug farming as you've traded off that time for a weapon. I do think some should be removed and spread to tier just not all of it.
[/quote]

Why does it matter if the full amount gets spread out to tier armor?

This seems completely reasonable.     

If you go this route would it be possible not to strip so much HR from the UWX+.    The HR on the UW is cool as heck and I do not think OP.     High resists can be achieved through farming tofs as well for those that deem the UW as too big of a timesink. 

The elite carrots are fun. 

I believe there needs to be Heroic Resist on the UW's for the time invested to earn those weapons.

I don't think we should strip all of the Heroic Resist and/or give equal amount Heroic Resist to all tier armor.

If an UW IX has 900 HR and I give that much to the tier armor, then I'd only have to raise the -resist checks in T8 ToV even higher. Otherwise, by the time players get to T8 ToV, just having the regular suit of armor required would make toons auto resist all the npc spells without having to farm any resist from variety of ranked items.

Like stated before, I think would be better to only strip 50% of HR off UW and spread some of that to tier armor. Just not 100% for either.

Seems perfectly fine, in my opinion as the net result is a gain of HR on the rest of your box for people with UW, and a net gain across the board for all your toons, for those without.

I haven't played in a year +, but I keep up and read all the updates and posts here still. spent a good few mins reading 8 pages of this thread so figured id chime in especially on those  who were ranting  out in ooc, walls sounds like a real tool for sure, hunter and hate both have done amazing things and are good at what they do..   Though I have been one those to lash out when the nerf bat came around , Hunter and  hate/nate and them have always came to some reasonable way to even things out. to call out the people who help keep new stuff coming out/broken stuff fixed, is  just stupidity and disrespect . those kinda people are better off not being on  EZ server anyway .

Im out now, my 2cents don't really matter anyway since I haven't played.... Hunter,Hateborne, and others that help out.. don't let the Haters/Ragers get you down keep on doing your thing!

PS, those whining cause you spent RL $$ on ess's or UW's or w/e  to get  the goods, you guys fail and need to become true hardcore players :P,, excluding the donators for fwp maybe and some other cool clicks they made, that don't really help you progress but makes it a bit easier on people for whatever reason, imo donate cause you like the server not for your end game loots


 If anyone remembers me ..... Falgor <Oathsworn>

Not he first time I heard someone say this and guess what, there are others here that would have filled that gap.
In fact I only started sending Hunter stuff and working with Nate after I came back from a break from ez and discovered that Hunter was indeed taking player generated code/content and using it.
For a long time he wouldn't even do that.

To lazy to find and quote further down the post but I think Hunter hits it on the head with a HP cap and spreading some of the HR off to the tiered armor.
What that would do is instead of making UW required no matter what and content being tuned around a 2mhp item, would make content easier for those that do UW and doable by those that do not farm one. Granted it will be harder for those without.
Just means some tuning of content may be in order.

Since the UW got all reverted recently, here are updated statistics:

Sword 107
Mace 25
Greatstaff 5
Dagger 7
Longbow 4

Although our goal isn't exactly to force everyone to use a different UW type than Sword, would like to make the other 4 not worthless, and have some appeal.

Most of them are almost same stats now. There are minor reasons to choose one over the other currently.

Greatstaff being 2hb would have less npc riposte, and has more HP/Resist.

I think Mace has bigger proc dmg.

etc

Will continue to "balance" or edit the UW, and watch statistics of what people are using.

Obviously with only 4 people choosing a bow (1 of them probably on my character) then majority of players probably feel its not worth it, or not enough of them on Rangers. So they would need a boost.

Continue posting feed back on the direction you would like to see UW go. You already know I'm not putting the AoE proc back onto the sword, and I'm not allowing Anger VI to go on them either. So move beyond that, and discuss. The other UW topic is more or less discussion exclusively for Ultimate Augments.

Anger IV and V 's out of the question? 
Snce the update, I'be definitely missed the click and heal effect but i realize now it was OP.  Guess I was oblivious previously.

With the anti train code in place, adding anger V augs would give existing aoe capabilities from epics and would still prevent mass pull lag bombs.

While I was originally disheartened that the change occurred, I completely agree with it in hindsight. Hunter. Hate and all of the random coders.... thanks for continued efforts and work!

Now I just need to get out of T5 with my sanity..../twitch

Hunter

Is it your intent to add a 2hs as a UW option?  I think with the UA setup your looking at is awesome to use on other toons. You will see more of the UW types being utilized now... Monk/cleric/druid and so on = mace, Rogue=dagger you get the idea here.  Also, with the change is there a way you could look at the EoP being 5mil instead of 10mil?  would keep things inline to the new system?  Also, things like grp heal are things like that going to have some increase over the same lvl epics?

Anyways, Keep up the great job you and your Santa helpers are doing.  

I haven't thought about EoP prices yet, possible for change when I make Ultimate Augments.

If everyone wants, we could possible change the 2hb Greatstaff into a 2hs Greatsword or 2hs Greataxe for heavier slower hits, possible more HP/Resist just like the 2hb Greatstaff does now.

The dagger would be for Rogues and Caster classes, so it would have more mana on it for casters, and anything else I can think of.

So the only blunt would be 1hb mace then.

Longbow is here to stay, might need work though. 

Ok I was just wondering about the 2hs adding that type you will cover all classes .... or somehow have the sword changeable to a 2hs... just some ideas

Thanks again for keeping an open mind and taking suggestions

On the UWX the Mace proc dmg is less than the sword.   However the Mace has a heal proc (like SK weapon) that can help people get over new tier content.   Used to use UW8 mace to kill Svart.    People have always used the mace to help with new content (although it wasnt discussed in ooc).     The sword proc is higher dps and thus some use the sword when they do not need the the extra heals.      If your team is up to par for the tier and you dont need extra heals then to me it made more sense to use the sword.   

Not sure about the other weapons, not really seeing a value in using any of them.   

What would be your goal here?     Could you list out your general thoughts on the intended purpose of each weapon type?

sword - dps  ??
mace -  tank/life tap ??

etc

My goal is to remove the procs and make Ultimate Augments.

So would be stats that make the units a bit more unique, some more HP, maybe some more Resist.

Spending more time on an item THAT I'M SCARED TO DEATH is going to be removed from the game from all the QQ just seems pointless to me. We had a UW, it worked, and it worked well. We didn't find it lying on the ground; we realized it's potential and we went after it.

Who cares that everyone has the sword? big deal. My whole family owns ford trucks but I chose a Dodge. I also always used the mace, so...

May want to avoid adding HP in any form to the UW or stone wall effect unless we want to run into the same situation down the road.  Or find Someone end game who Does not and Will not use a UW, and balance it around that.

UW Aug DPS and such is far easier to balance around not having.  Just have someone Take them out or switch to a normal epic set and see how they fair when testing new content.

Do not see us having any more SW effects at all or any HP

Here is my thought on all of this. We are saying that the UW is OP and its effect on the game, However we hvae not seen Epic 8.0 yet, So would the 8.0 balance out the missing gap between UW and Epic? I think it would I think you should fix the Epic first revert back to hates 15% reduction set and put in the 8.0 and see where things balance out. Why not do it now? Why go through this all again in 2 months for balancing issues? Seems to me that if you want to balance things out before you get back to work give a little time to test that epic system and the Uw system design together? Add Heroic resists to tier armor add some to epic even things out.

Edit
Adding that i  think making UWXI+ really hard to get maybe do a do like a quest that you have to turn in all tier gear from qvic to t8 and get some reward. I do realize this will mean you will have to do qvic-t6 a few times, however this would be pretty time consuimg with the 50 mob train limit.

Hateborne and I were already discussing the new Epic 8.0+ and possibly using them as Epic Augments to be inserted into new weapons each tier, or even possibly into the UW.

Actually, we were discussing making the Epic Augs to be effects only, while new drop weapons were all stats, then combine together would be some what unique item. And by inserting them into UW you'd have your classes epic proc/click on the UW.

Only reason no Epic 8.0+ yet is cause lazy, and rushed into a new tier already. I know this would help a lot to bridge the gap if I made them. Now I'm just thinking how I want to continue the course with regular epics or Epics Augs.

Delevel to 70 and redo T1-T9 again huh? Sounds like the RoA quest we had before. Not sure if this would be a popular idea or not. Would have to be good reward for doing this.

No not de level just farm the gear gotta do qvic 8 times over =P ct 7 etc mayve make the new gear you put in ct required too thats a few more times added would help the lower end server eco.

Not looking to stir things up, and definitely not interested in QQ or Spam, but throwing idea out here...

I'd rather over time tweak UW to be more DPS benefit and less of HP benefit.

The DPS would be done by white damage and Ultimate Augments.

I'm holding off right now on lowering the UW HP until the Ultimate Augments are ready.

If I lower the HP on UW, then I'd also consider maybe in T6+ or T7+ lowering the mindmg and maxdmg the mobs do to players, maybe by 10-50% depending on a few variables.

Under this new system, the UW players would be able to survive just as well in high tiers, and the non-UW players would be able to survive better in the higher tiers, making the UW less "required" as claimed, and more of just a DPS benefit to kill faster, and maybe some other neat focus/click affects to be created later.

Some of asked, and yes, I've officially given Hateborne control over the Epic 2.0+ revamp into Epic Augments. Although that is off topic, I would however consider maybe raising the Epic White Damage a tad, and when I nerf the UW to make the UW HP to be equal to that tier Epic Weapons HP, so having a Epic or UW in your hand will yield the same HP, just different DPS.

For now, the T5 - T9 for UW is a sweet spot, where a tank becomes very powerful. With new future tiers, and full suits of armor adding more and more HP % per tier, the gap between UW HP and non-UW HP should be getting more narrow. Even if I don't super nerf the HP, I will at minimum, nerf all UW with over 1 million HP, to only allow +500k HP per rank more instead of double HP per rank which is current making Rank 12 to have 8 Million HP, that would have 2.5M HP instead.

The last thing I want to do is nerf UW players that make effort to get those. They still need to be special, while still allowing non-UW players to progress. The UW will stay special by having higher DPS, special effects (click, worn, focus, proc), and from Heroic Resist (Which you can get on other items and ToFS anyways).

I realize everyones concerns about UWs. Hoping to have them rebalanced and tweaked within 2-3 months along with the new Epics that will be available.

Agreed. And with that in mind.....again, hate to harp on this, but as things stand you are metering UW attainability mainly through essence drop rate.

Please understand, I agree 100% that UW's SHOULD bew hard to get! But...as things are now, when you control this through tier essence drop rate this also has a very deep impact on players getting the other items these essences make: SoA, mana necks, strike augs....damn, especially strike augs! These have become pretty much a must have for progression. They are NOT optional, especially in light of recent changes to mob regen. Levering back drop rates on these essences is making it harder for players to get out of certain tiers.

Example: I know this was fixed to an extent, but before the drop rate was revisited 2 guildies and 3 newer players I'd been helping literally spent weeks (plural) in CT getting half a dozen strike augs for their team, because the essence drop rate was low.

And yes, I understand strike augs shouldnt be candy to make, but as it stands they are harder to get now than they were before UW. Is this the intent? If not, couldnt we perhaps find an alternative to either tier essences for UW? And maybe an option to hand in already collected essences to the essence npc in the crafters guild for the new items? Just a thought.

As for the UW changes.....sounds ok so far. But....

Please dont take this the wrong way....but what they are now isnt anywhere near what I signed up for when I made my first UW. Do what you think is right, but please fix em and leave em the hell alone, or get rid of them entirely. When you have an item like this you tend to build your team around it, or work your strategy with the item in mind. Not knowing what to expect from one day to the next is unfun.

Am on board with this.  I believe I recall you mentioning allowing people with UW's to get a free UW aug or something of the sort once you create them.  Might go a long way towards easing into this nerf.  A few tiers from now, should be relatively closer to UW being OPTIONAL, as long as the mob damage gets reduced as you say.

I would think everyone would be more content if the ultimate augs got created during this burst of development before you have to travel.

The clicky missing is still a problem during certain applications, and removing it and then saying it is to be focused on dps confuses me.  The angerbomb changed help mitigate this but still hurts my groups dps.

I think a leg up when it gets implemented for current owners would help.

I'm perfectly ok with the HP changes and then readjustment of higher tier mob damage. It is my opinion that this is the unbalancing nature of the UW weapon.

Could possibly add a parallel drop in the zones ultimate essence at current droprate, and then could increase regular essence drop rate perhaps? Then give a window of time and an NPC in crafter guild that exchanges regular for ultimate.  Then change the droprates.  Just for people who are farming and close and if you have 90 god majors and you change the recipe and they have to farm 100 ultimate god majors, would be some major QQ.

Unless I missed a post, Hunter stated the UW augs would be AA based turn in

Yes.  But I suggested somewhere in here that you could get a 1 time bonus based on what tier UW you have.

HAve a rank 4 get 4-10k aa tokens

etc etc

The only thing I would like to see, because according to my calculations its gonna be close to 13-14 million in diamonds alone to go from T6 to T7 strike essences for 1 strike augs. Back track that we're talking a ton of plat for multiple characters that dual wield.

I know some people can cover that spread, but as a casual I can't. An easy solution would be to allow strike augs at rank 5 or so be put into a T7 weapon. Otherwise most toons will just stay at a T6 due to that bottle neck.

Here's an idea regarding clicky.  Would slotting an anger bomb augment into one of the UW slots (as a click) be possible?  At this point (Max Cowardice augs and FD click) my Monks and Rogue are still hors d' oeuvres for T8 bosses if I wait a tick too long to FD.  Would be nice to have that head snapping taunt without losing a bag slot.

Purely anecdotal

Before clicky was removed with UW4 and a UC i could clear HoH farming in about 33 minutes and I wasn't pulling more then 50, in t5 gear i was probably doing about 35 mob trains.

With change now with UW6 and a UC2 and a mix of t7/t6 gear and anti-train code it takes me 40 minutes to clear HoH pulling 40-45 mobs at a time.

I feel that if you add the clicky back, or some version of it with the anti-train code will balance the AE dps you get out of it when farming.

I understand the need to reduce the HP on the UW, it seems impossible to balance as you add more and more tiers.   However,  a HP nerf on the higher tier UWs would be fairly significant.    A big reason why I invested the time in T8 to get a UWX was for the hp.  Contrary to popular belief this was not easy and did require a significant amount of time and effort, this was 100+ hours of pure T8 farming not to mention the time and effort it took to get a team ready for T8.

When you nerf them could we get an aug (maybe a HP/Tank aug) or something for those of us impacted?   

Regarding the gap between epic players and UW players, I think there should be a gap.   All casual players have epics.   It takes time, effort, plat, creds etc to obtain a high level UW.    We all play for different reasons but mmorpgs have always been competitive.    Frankly socialism can suck it.

At this point in time I believe there are only 12 players with UWX+ (11 X and 1 XI).    What percentage of the server does this represent?   When you envisioned UW I know you meant to keep it to X percent of players.   Does this 12 player count correspond to your target?     

Regarding the AE click.....I didnt use that for DPS as much as I used it to keep the warrior healed.

Where i saw the probem gap being made with UW was HP. And when i say Problem i mean is what was casuing a problem with balancing the content.  When I saw the hp start doubling at the X and XI i was thinking that was gona be bad. Balancing was going to be impossible.

Ideas? Cut HP like you said hunter. I understand people have spent time on it for diffrent reason, everyone has. As far as time spent anyone that has done this thing has spent time and effort in one way or another. By adjusting the HP after tier 9 it would allow for the insainly high damage done by mobs in the top tiers to be dropped, so that survivablity amoungst the groups and toons WITHOUT the UW can survive and content balancing can be achieved.

Yes its a UW, there are things that can done to still make it a ULTIMATE. Alot of people like things that were changed with the uw, by making those things avaible again thru augs it will allow people to make there uw more personal like what is being looked at with the Epics. Want your UW to back farm, slot a AOE clicky aug. looking for more hp, slot those instead. want to bathe in the sun, more resist's. ect, ect. and by makeing them augs toons can change them when they wantas the tiers change. and yes, i know not everyone is going to agree with me, but no one is going to agree with everyone.

So would like Anger bomb as an Augment to insert?

Might be possible, have to check out the pros and cons first.

Also yes, I am still intending to give out 1 free augment based on current UW rank.

So if you have UW IX then you'll get 1 free UA IX when the Augs are released. Then the other 3 you'll have to earn to slot.

We already have reserved aug slots for Focus, Worn, Click, and Proc. Maybe add 5th slot for stats? I couldn't go too high with HP/Resist on that, but would be something and give more options.

By raising the Epic HP, and then lowering UW HP + lowering mob dmg, main tanks should have about the same survival rate. Will never be exact but hopefully close enough. All Epic 2.0+ are going to convert to no-stat Epic Augs anyways, to be inserted into tier weapons that have stats, so will try to have those same tier weapons with similar HP as the new Epics HP.

In the end UW Tanks should be able to survive the same, while everyone else becomes more able to survive without.

What will keep the UW special will be DPS, 4-5 types of Augments, and Heroic Resist. Once this happen, it'll be no longer "required" since you can technically get reasonable DPS via Strike Augs and reasonable Heroic Resist with ToFS HR Stones.

Personaly i wouldnt add another slot especialy one for just HP. Becasue then its Just more hp. having aug slots that "Could" have hp aug slotted in them OR other augs will mforce a choice especialy if those other aufs are desirable. either hp or effect or ?????. this makes them more individualized. makeing another slot with hp is just another thing to do. kinda like the descusions about do you put resists augs in armor or hp augs or ???? make a slot for one thing and it WILL get filled with just that and all peeps will be the same. not to mention talking about dropping the hp on UW, then to just add them back in doesnt resolve things.

just my 2 cp's

Actually, I think I've decided to go with Slot 1, Type 21 (Epic Augment) to be added to all UW after next reboot.

This will allow players to insert their 7.0 and 8.0 Epic Augments into the UW.

As much bitching as people have done lately, this might shut a few up ^_^