Ultimate Weapons Discussion

WatchYouDie

Sr. Member

Posts: 388

Re: Updates 12-20-13

« Reply #75 on: December 21, 2013, 03:29:10 pm »

Idea keep Uw the way it was make uwxi + almost impossible to get. yes it will let people catch up and stuff but then maybe we could all start playing together instead of just doing our own thing ?


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Raygan

Legend

Posts: 1151

Re: Updates 12-20-13

« Reply #76 on: December 21, 2013, 03:57:51 pm »

I think it would benefit the server as a whole to kill the UW in ALL its forms and make content geared towards gear/epics...not towards a single tank having an UW....would kill more than one bird with one stone too....could fix it so that paladins/shadow knights could tank the content as well so everything isn't based around HAVING to have a warrior as your MT. I do agree with Hateborne on that point...was just kind of a bogus way he had of getting the point across with this last batch of nerfs.


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Strix

Sr. Member

Posts: 273

Re: Updates 12-20-13

« Reply #77 on: December 21, 2013, 04:20:03 pm »

Quote from: Hunter on December 21, 2013, 01:13:57 pm

I think turning UW's into Aug's at 1/4 dmg (white + proc) is good idea. Remove stats/hp. Maybe slot any aug type slot, and make them non-lore? Still time consuming to get.

Think Xiggie is on the money with this idea.

+1


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Expletus

Hero Member

Posts: 731

Re: Updates 12-20-13

« Reply #78 on: December 21, 2013, 05:18:25 pm »

I think I would take the 100 essence requirement at that point and make it 50 if we're dropping the stats.


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Keeze

Felony

Sr. Member

Posts: 394

Trump it

Re: Updates 12-20-13

« Reply #79 on: December 21, 2013, 05:24:45 pm »

Quote from: Expletus on December 21, 2013, 05:18:25 pm

I think I would take the 100 essence requirement at that point and make it 50 if we're dropping the stats.

Just make sure to refund those with UW 50 essences per rank Wink


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If we judged them by the content of their character, they'd be begging us to judge them by the color of their skin

spuddson

Full Member

Posts: 110

Re: Updates 12-20-13

« Reply #80 on: December 21, 2013, 05:35:15 pm »

or get 2 augs when u hand in , one for each epic


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Peign

Guest

Re: Updates 12-20-13

« Reply #81 on: December 21, 2013, 05:50:35 pm »

Quote from: Xiggie | Stone on December 21, 2013, 02:49:16 pm

What about the people who donated to the server and now find it a farce because of the UW? UW have trivialized the entire game. I can do more with my warrior than I can with 3 groups of toons without the UW and my warrior only has UW8. If the change is made, people will complain, they will come here on the forums and shit up the walls. But the overall health of the server will improve over time. Sure some adjustments will have to be made to the content and that will take time. But these are changes that are good for the longevity of the server.

Login, play, then talk. You don't play now so have no idea what is going on. The server was here before you, and it still exits without you /shrug.

The immortality of the UW came from the Warriors Way and the ridiculous OP effects that were added to it. You are far from immortal now with a UW. Really, just log in and give it a shot. Run your team in T8.

Any changes that occur will definitely require some more refactoring in the high tiers.


« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 06:01:05 pm by Peign »	Logged

Xiggie | Stone

Legend

Posts: 2119

Re: Updates 12-20-13

« Reply #82 on: December 21, 2013, 08:06:08 pm »

I have played since the change to the warrior bp. I generally make it a point to not post when I am not playing on the server. If you are not playing the server then you don't know the dynamics of what is going on. However the UW is still more dps than an entire group without the UW. The UW still makes a warrior more survivable than an entire group, or 3 groups for that matter. It doesn't even take T8 to understand that. The UW broke this server period. Everyone can be end game with one. Sure make the UW harder to obtain and maybe 2 years or so down the road when the drones of people who currently have them finally quit the health of the server will pick up. Or you can just do it now. Nerf what should have never been put on the server in the first place. It started with the Halloween weapons and now it is with the UW.

Right now you have the people who can't get a UW because it is too hard/have a lot less UW's and you have the people who have several of the UW. Who do you balance the content for? If you balance the content for the people who don't have several or any UW then the people who do have several UW scream about how the went through he new tier in less than a week. If you balance the content to people who do have their UW's then it is too hard for those who don't and you have people screaming about how the UW needs to be made easier.

As for the people who threaten to leave, I promise you nerfing the UW, turning it into an aug and then tweaking the content to fit the new firepower will result in more people coming into the server than leaving. Of all the years I have played on this server I have never seen anything threaten this server as much as the UW's.


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Felony

Sr. Member

Posts: 394

Trump it

Re: Updates 12-20-13

« Reply #83 on: December 21, 2013, 08:14:48 pm »

Quote from: Xiggie | Stone on December 21, 2013, 08:06:08 pm

The UW broke this server period. Everyone can be end game with one.

Nah not true, Redtwo complains non stop about how he cant beat T8 with a UW9.
/whistle


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If we judged them by the content of their character, they'd be begging us to judge them by the color of their skin

Xiggie | Stone

Legend

Posts: 2119

Re: Updates 12-20-13

« Reply #84 on: December 21, 2013, 08:29:00 pm »

Quote from: Felony on December 21, 2013, 08:14:48 pm

Quote from: Xiggie | Stone on December 21, 2013, 08:06:08 pm

The UW broke this server period. Everyone can be end game with one.

Nah not true, Redtwo complains non stop about how he cant beat T8 with a UW9.
/whistle

Lol


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Kovou

Sr. Member

Posts: 323

Re: Updates 12-20-13

« Reply #85 on: December 21, 2013, 09:15:32 pm »

If hunter does do this then whats happens to the essence of 100 XX that we have already? can we get a refund? just curious how he will look at this


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Peign

Guest

Re: Updates 12-20-13

« Reply #86 on: December 21, 2013, 10:38:57 pm »

The health of the server seems fine to me. We get new players every day. I think more people enjoy the UW and other items that Hunter has implemented than dislike them.

The UW, as it was originally implemented does not seem game breaking. Not quite sure a UW will out dps an NSX augged monk, ranger or free dps wizzy either. if so, so what? it is ultimate, it was worked for and it was certainly not given.

server ecinomy is thriving, population is up. whats the problem.

players here are passionate and will get the gear!

moar pellets please!

lol@felony


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Takishi

Full Member

Posts: 119

Re: Updates 12-20-13

« Reply #87 on: December 21, 2013, 10:59:45 pm »

I only have UW5 and am still finishing T5. I can agree that the UW has been OP since it's introduction. However, drastically changing stats on the weapon that folks have spent months on is disheartening. I, like most, have donated for many different rewards and to assist in completing additional UW ranks.

While I hate the fact that the weapon I've spent months and RL money to obtain is being crippled, I do believe it should be balanced.

Option 1 - revert UW to full strength minus huge HP values. This will keep the DPS that most use but removes the enormous hit point pools that the UW alone provides.

Option 2 - update the UW to be an Aug that can be incorporated into any epic. Leave all stats between 35-50% of current levels but leave full proc/click strength. 10 million conversion.

Option 3 - balance UW stats to match comparable epic stats but add click/proc strength.

Option 4 - update UW to be 40% previous stats across all UW, except HP.

Option 5 - remove UW, refund essence and add nerds 6 to T5 and Nerds 7 T7+.

Just ideas, in which all are nerfs to the UW as it was previously but still allows people to benefit and still want to obtain it. The weapon as it stands is still awesome, but the click and other effects are missed.


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red2

Full Member

Posts: 140

Re: Updates 12-20-13

« Reply #88 on: December 21, 2013, 11:48:59 pm »

man felony, talk like that ... want to come to my house and %^&* my dog why you are at it ?


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Hunter

EZ Server GM
Legend

Posts: 8100

EZ Server GM

Re: Updates 12-20-13

« Reply #89 on: December 21, 2013, 11:50:45 pm »

I made the post about 1/4 stats before going to bed, and got the reaction I wanted when I woke up, more feed back and ideas. I'm only throwing ideas out there, nothing has changed anymore than the revert, and probably won't change anything for at least a few weeks so I have time to think about it, listen to all the feed back, and time for players to calm down.

Staying on track with the actual issues, players wanted their HP, Resist, and AoE on the UW, right?

Since reverting Epics to before Hateborne did any adjustments, we now have original HP and Resist values, minus the AoE. So the current complaint would be the AoE?

I'm toying with an idea of using an unused aug slot type, like type 30, onto the Ultimate Weapons.

Then a new Ultimate Quest, most likely harder than the original UW Quest, to create ranked Ultimate Augments that you can choose and select what style you want. Maybe AoE dmg, or maybe dmg and heal focus effect, maybe HP Rune Effect, etc. This would allow players to customize their UW's to do what they want without having to give up their precious sword graphic, and without giving up their AoE dmg (if you put the time in for that additional quest).

I've tried to balance new content to be do-able by non-UW players, and yet still a challenge to UW players. This is becoming impossible, and I guess I'm going to have to admit that yes new content will require you to have an UW on your main tank by the time you get into T8 or higher.

I've underestimated how many hardcore players we have, and how hardcore they can be, that they will at all cost absolutely must obtain best item in game. Yes this item seems like god-mode but its also reward for time invested. Its fun playing in god-mode sometimes. Heck, I personally exploited in Skyrim with I think was enchanting + alchemy crafting to cycle up a million damage weapon that ended up being god-mode in game as long as I didn't run any patches to update. I had fun. I understand wanting to have best item in the game.

Since we're at the point of admitting that UW is required for future content, the best I can do to balance things out between an UW Tank and the non-UW group members was the spell resist, being -4,000 from Single target DD, and -1500 AoE, so that group members only have to farm ToFS to get their resist about -1500 in T8, while the main tank should have UW + other resist armor. Lets not forget, that I've removed AoE Rampage from EVERY mob in the game, which further helps group members that don't have UW. Anyone remember end game having to make your group sit out of the fight, else the AoE Rampage would wipe your group? This is gone, removed! You can now join in if your main tank can survive.

Continuing this path, I'm also toying with the idea of removing 50% of the Heroic Resist from UW's and spreading them out across tier armor. I'm not sure what tier I'll start at. If I start at the beginning, then it'll be small increments. The UW IX has about 900 resist? So then I'd remove 450 resist off that, and spread those 450 resist across all the tier armor, so by the time you get to T8 ToV, a full suit of armor would give you +450 Heroic Resist. And if your main tank has UW IX then that is another 450 resist for the original 900 resist that you'd have anyways. The benefit is now EVERYONE else in the raid has additional 450 resist on their toon! This bridges the gap a little bit between UW and non-UW toons as far as Resist.

Now, getting off topic, it was being expressed how Hateborne is not qualified to edit UW. Ok, fine, I've removed all the work he's done on the UW, including the AoE which was something that Hateborne made. Now you'll have to soak in your own piss for a while with the reverted changes, and think about how you act while giving feed back on changes next time.

The ideas I've just posted in this reply here are just ideas I'm toying with. I'll continue to listen to more feed back before I make any changes. For now I have no plans of removing the Ultimate Weapons. I realize that a lot of people spent a lot of time to acquire. Lets discuss how to move forward, make them worth having, while trying to balance custom zone tier content best we can. I remember when plat had no value, nothing to spend it on. Now we have ooc people trading plat, essences, and other stuff. There is an economy going on, even if the end goal is god-mode item. It gives players something to work on after they already have full tier worth of armor. So far this is successful, its keeping the hardcore players busy with something to do.

As for the non-hardcore players, that is probably for another topic. If there are so many of them, then they need to form guilds and work together. Work together on getting your main tank geared out, and enough healers to keep tank topped off each round. Seems the majority of the players here are hardcore, over 120 UW and only 400 online? Sort of speaks for itself how much of the server is hardcore.

Just waking up, haven't proof read this yet, so hope it makes sense.


« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 11:56:22 pm by Hunter »	Logged

Hunter - EZ Server GM

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