EZ Server

Ok, I realize that the max level of charm you can get in LDoN is 25.  After that you have to farm Cyans from T3.

As someone who can only run 1-2 clients, I cannot farm T3 like others who 4-5 box can.  So I have no way of farming stones.

I know what you're thinking.  "Why not just join a group and farm T3?" Why would a group, who is most likely 4-5 boxing to farm stones themselves, invite me if I insist on sharing stone loot.  It would slow their farming efforts down.

So I'm just throwing this out there.  Ultimate charm is all 4 charms at level 50 combined.  How about a Semi-Ultimate charm where you combine all 4 charms at level 25. It could just be half the stats of the Ultimate charm.

Many won't even do this, especially warriors, who are getting 41+ sorcerer charms anyway.  For someone like me, it's probably my only chance though.

Just an idea.

Qualin you are the man. I love this idea. I totally understand your situation and know that you are not the only person like this. I really hope Hunter takes this into conisderation.

Tarq

That's an interesting idea, Qualin.

A code to allow the semi-ultimate charm to be "undone" in case a person's circumstances change and they want to move forward with t3/t4 would need to be considered as well.

btw, there is another option to your scenario.  Join a guild who's intent is to progress into t3/t4.  You may move slower than your 6-boxing compadres, but if you contribute you'll get some rewards.  

I know I am speaking for Qualin on this, but both him and I are in a T3/T4 guild and no one in our guild gets together to farm crystals in T3. And in the rare event that it does happen, the guild will use them to spawn T3/T4 bosses rather than upgrade one level of someones charm. Also if you know of a guild that has groups of people, that do not box more than two toons, farming crystals everyday let me know, because frankly I don't know of one that is out there at the moment.

Tarq

I wonder if people will work together in small groups if they can't box it, ie 2 of you farming crystals to upgrade charm?

It will always boil down to "My toon is the tank, they need the gems so they get them first!" because nobody wants to roll for them when they have to get so many.

That's a good point, just figured people that couldn't box would small group and take turns looting a stone at a time or something. It has to be tough if you can't box Halls of Honor though.

Well, there's tough, then there's horribly class-biased. Until further class changes/improvements are made, everything T2 and up is equated to needing warriors and clerics. If you don't have a ridiculous amount of healing or tanking (which limits "useful" classes), you can't survive. That's a whole new discussion, though. lol

I'd love to see a semi-ultimate charm, as I'd definitely use it... I just don't want it to impede my progression to ultimate charm, if I ever get the chance. (meaning if I make a semi-ultimate charm, I have to start ALL OVER to work up for the ultimate charm)

I was thinking it would be like the half way point of the ultimate charm, the half-ultimate charm(semi). That way after obtaining the half one, you could conitnue to work on the original ultimate charm. Just find someway to combine the half one with like 100 cyans or something to make the full one.

Maybe he can implement it so that when you turn in all 4 lvl 25 charms for the semi ultimate charm it gives you the semi charm + all your 4 25 charms back so that you can continue upgrading charms and not start them over.

i love that idea Eliseus!

As much as I would love this idea, I think there has to be an amount of give and take, benefit and cost. The benefit is that I get to combine 4 of my charms, at the cost of not being able to advance, say a sorcerer charm, above level 25. It just seems unbalanced to get both the combined charm and still keep your level 25s.

I
Think I like this option best.  My situation might change, I could get a new computer that can box....etc.  Combine Semi-Ultimate charm with a chisel, lol, and break it back into the 4 level 25 charms.

This makes the most sense.... like you said the other way you are getting 4 lvl 25 charms for free.

The "Adequate" or "Mediocre" charm  :)

Maybe the ability to have levels of Ultimate charm, 1-25?  Combine 4 level 25's into an ultimate 1, then combine the ultimate 1 and X number of gems into an ultimate 2. 

I see the Ultimate Charm as more of a "Big Finale" rather than something you gain incrementally.  It's just a finale not most of us can reach without boxing a group. I can farm the heck out of LDoN for charm upgrades, even though its boring and I want to claw my eyes out.

I'd rather see a combine of 2 Semi-Ultimate charms for 1 ultimate.  This however would encourage more LDoN farming, something I assure you is pretty crowded as it is. 

I can certainly see the appeal of this item to many, on the flip side I can see why you wouldn't do it. Not all items are meant to be achievable by all people, I'd guess epic 4 for instance will be beyond many players ability to get. Ultimate charm is something like that, it's meant to be the absolute end all charm, so have a "lesser" version may cheapen it, especially if you can get that version and still progress with minimal or no penalty to getting the full version.

It's a tough balancing act I'd imagine for Hunter to figure out, people can get charms, and really people can farm in halls of honor with a few other players splitting stones, there isn't a real reason why they can't once they get past t2. It may not be easy or with their class choices it may really be tougher, but no one is saying it can't be done.

Of course warriors/clerics make it easier, but I'd guess sk or pally with clerics and dps classes would be able to do it without issue too. Just like in regular EQ there are always class dependencies and clerics are one of those classes that are essential, no way round that. Warriors aren't required for hoh, could be done with a sk.

Quite true, I can handle all the trash near the zone in easily with on my T2 geared SK with just a single cleric spamming AHL.

I appreciate all the dialogue that's going back and forth about this. I promise I try to approach it in a balanced way, because in the end we all want balance.  Illustrating the case for something that's fair and balanced is going to have the best chances to get put in the game.


There are already 200 lesser versions of the ultimate charm technically.


I'm sure it is.  I would just hope that content is designed in a way that considers both types of players. Those that run their own group, and ones that have to find a group that will grant them loot rights.

I'm full T2 geared, and I honestly got that way by riding the coat tails of people that box.  As a ranger I made myself as useful to them as I possibly could, don't peg me as a vulture. In the end though, I always understood that it was they who had loot rights first and I picked up the scraps. Some people are way cool about it though, especially since a lot of gear is class specific.  Everyone wants Cyans though~

As for a pickup group of single boxers in T3.  Let me know when you see one.

Why not ask others in the same boat as you to join in, looks like several just on this thread? Working together or in a guild is part of the game or creating a large enough box army to do it yourself, the ultimate charm may not be designed to be achievable without a group or a box army and that may be as intended, I just don't know on that.

I don't consider the lesser charms to be versions of the ultimate I'm afraid, so we differ on that point, they are leaps and bounds different from the ultimate.

Another good reason for the "LFG Meeting Place" that i have been pitching by the entrance to SFG.

Go there, meetup with people with same needs, go play!

Truthfully I just don't like this idea because LDoN 6 is already crowded enough as it is. We don't need another dozen warriors trying their hardest to crash the zone in there =p

I'll concede that it's possible, if you agree the time sink and difficulty is extremely greater.

Example (I'm just throwing some numbers out there to illustrate):
1 person boxing 5 toons, with 1 stone every 5 minutes = 1 cyan for a main every 1h20m.

5 people with 5 mains, taking turns looting stones, 1 stone every 5 minutes = 1 cyan for a main every 6h20m

Time sink for boxer above to get Ultimate = 66h40m
Time sink for a non-boxer above to get Ultimate = 316h40m

The return on investment is extremely diminished if you are a single boxer. I might as well not worry about it.

That only works out if the 5 boxers are working torwads one toon.  If each toon was getting their own, it would be exactly the same for anyone - boxed or grouped.

And that is my problem with boxing in general.... It promotes playing with yourself (sorry - no pun intended) - Not grouping with individuals to better the community.

Your numbers are right, but even if multiboxing you aren't always putting all your cyans on one toon, often splitting between your 2 or 3 warriors for example, so that's not accurate really. The key is it would take you exactly as long as it would take a person boxing that is upgrading all their toon which means it is fair in essence. I couldn't agree more about the nature of the time sync though, it's HUGE but given the item stats I think it is intended to require a huge investment also.

I absolutely agree with you, the time sink to get it for any 1 toon is equal. The only difference lies in the odds of finding a pickup group vs the finality of boxing an entire group it would further compound the situation.

Same above numbers, adding in additional variable of finding a group:

This time lets assume each real person only wants 1 ultimate charm for 1 character.

1 person boxing 5 toons, with 1 stone every 5 minutes, divided by 100% chance to get a group = 1 cyan for a main every 1h20m.

5 people with 5 mains, taking turns looting stones, 1 stone every 5 minutes, divided by 80% chance to get a group = 1 cyan for a main every 7h54m

Time sink for boxer above to get Ultimate = 66h40m
Time sink for a non-boxer above to get Ultimate = 395hours

That's given a generous 80% chance to get a group.
Run the numbers with 50% chance, the time increases to  632hours.

Given the server population and play habits, what do you think is a realistic chance of finding HoHonor pickup groups?

I'm just pleading the case for an item that would be equally obtainable.  This is assuming that every class can pretty much solo LDoN, and the variability of finding a group is removed. The end reward would be less as well.

It honestly just seems unnecessary compared to all the other things that could be done on the server, like improve balance and add new custom content.

...and LDoN6 crashes so damn often that it really can't handle any added traffic.

I agree,

I guess since I just got my guardian 25, I'm just looking for a tangible goal I can do on my own.

I guess this is where we part ways opinion wise. I don't think all items should be able to equally obtainable to all. Some items are hugely powerful and require sacrifice or hard work, and even working with others to get to, and given that we both agree it isn't impossible to get there as even a solo player it seems reasonable to me.

You won't be able to solo for an epic 4 either, or t3/t4 armor as well. Now perhaps at some point t3/t4 armor will rot, but epic 4's likely will not. That doesn't mean you add another way to get there, you simply figure out how to work within a group to get there if you can't do it on your own, imho.

I feel the same way. I'm a big proponent of people getting things worth while for the work they put in. Even if these circumstances will likely exclude me from getting these items for a long time if ever.

I agree. Remember though, I'm not asking for an 'alternate path' to an Ultimate charm, I'm making the case for something that is half as powerful.

Here is my analogy and after that I'm gonna let it die:

I'm a runner, but I have a partial torn ACL. I can do 10ks easy. I even came a mile short of doing a half marathon distance one day, but I can't do a Marathon because after a certain distance my knee starts acting up. On a whim I pushed myself to 12 miles one day but it was agony at the end and I limped home, I rehab-ed my knee a lot to get it to that point.

The equivalent of what you're saying to me, is "The glory should be held for those that can finish a marathon.  We won't even hold a 10k."

There's a lot of people who are damn proud of themselves for finishing a 10k.  It doesn't detract from those who can finish a marathon though, cause us 10kers still wish/strive to get that marathon done one day.

Ok that's off on a weird tangent maybe, but do you get my drift?

All the stuff about me running and ACL tear is true by the way. I am currently training to do a half marathon but it's rough.

I think the Semi ultimate charm is a great idea. I mean why not? There isn't really any reason why it couldn't be implemented. However, I hope there is never another alternative to an ultimate charm. For example, 2 semi charms together. No thanks. I would like though to be able to upgrade charms still while using the semi charm, also saves the hassle of "heres my semi charm, give me back my 4 charms" + depending on the charm you might use a lvl 30 charm over the semi charm anyways. It just seems like a fun idea for people who cant or wont or dont care to get charms higher then lvl 25 + some previous threads have mentioned that tanks most likely would get stuff towards ultimate charm first, semi ultimate charm would be cool to give people / other classes some feeling of ultimate lol

unless you box your own t3 group, play a war main in a t3 guild, you will not see this charm, ever.

sort of takes away the whole concept of an EZ server now

I was under the impression it took 100 cyans for the ult charm, but your numbers = 50 total cyans?

It's not the difficulty so much as it is class balance. Some classes are so useless in T3 that if pickup groups were made, they'd exclude these classes because it's more detrimental to them to have another player competing for drops than what the class brings to the group. I'll be honest, if I were making a group and an enchanter wanted to join for T3, I'd say no. What can they possibly bring other than more competition for drops? It's just sad.

Well said.

>Implying your class (Pallys) brings anything to T3

XD <3

FFFUUU!

I see what you did there, Ieawenpo. -_-

Had me thinking last night. Why not make semi-ultimate charm a better choice for casters? 50k HP, 10k mana on ultimate, 10k HP 50k mana on semi-ultimate? Now the problem would be the sorcer(sic) focus on higher charms in comparison to the limitations of semi-ultimate charm. Alternate suggestions time!

I haven't read all 3 pages yet, but semi ultimate might be possible. I'll have to discuss with Basher first, no promises. I'm going on vacation soon, but just the same will get more time on the PC during my vacation than when I'm working. No promises, and it'd be a while if happens. I understand the point of 26+ requires PoG (T3/T4) Flags.

Hunter

You weren't on Vacation already Hunter?

I been getting ready. I'll be on vacation for June 4th till end of the month.

I hope you have some fun and more importantly get some much needed rest and relaxation!

Well if you get a "semi-ultimate" charm, im guessign the 4 charm would dissapear?

I guess you could always do the 1 to 25 again from the next step (t1-t2?) then combine both semi ultimate to make the ultimate...

Just an idea

have a good vacation!

I dont like the idea of 2 semi ultimate charms making 1 ultimate. It would cheapen the Ultimate Charm. if you could farm up/ buy charm upgrades from 1 to 25, then do it again, without ever entering T3/T4 areas.... and make the same charm, whats the point of even getting access to those areas until after you max the same charm everyone is busting their ass to get?

not to mention you can buy the charm upgrades with real cash, making an Ultimate Charm worth 800$. Pricey, yes, but able to buy none the less.

I thought for a moment that maybe it could be a cost of having a semi ultimate charm that you would have to raise your charms again to 25 then start in T3/4 again for your real ultimate charm. However then I realized that it would add even more to the whole ldon6 bs overcamp that is already going on.

Are the charm components for 26 - 50 stackable? That would solve the issue. Otherwise maybe turn them in for full credits so that when you are ready you can make your ultimate charm.

I meant that the second charm would be the one from T3/T4.. then you combine the one from LDON and the one from T3-T4 together... its just that at least you get a semi uber charm while farming T3/T4

Makes sense.... that way you still have to do all the work, yet you still get some benefit at the half-way point.  Not bad Lodar.

I 3rd this.

This idea i like, i didnt like the "lets level each charm from 1 to 25, twice and combine for Ultimate Charm"

The Semi-Charm idea is a great one, I know I am late to all of this, but at least it gives people something to shoot for.  Only thing I would see wrong is maybe a jam like never before in LDoN 6, but i think everyone here is used to that by now.

Bumping this, cause I'm getting close to being done on all my level 35 charms lol.

Keep going Qualin, yesterday i got mine finished  ::)
And i beated my record with 12 cyan in almost 6h of farming  ;D

qualin is an animal =p first ranger with ultimate charm maybe?

no...it won't happen.

My rig only has 2 gig of RAM.  That means boxing 3 is my limit....and that's pushing it.  Means I can't farm for cyans....unless someone else wants to do it for me? LoL...I'll provide some DPS lol.

Got all my level 25 charms. I'm out of content and goals for now lol.

At least I'm done with LDoN

Only thing I hope for any semi-ultimate charm is that it is less than half as powerful than the ult charm, and there is some penalty if you wish to make it into an ult charm eventually.

Maybe 40% stats and 40% of the ultimate charm focus effects, and require it to be combined with 128 cyans (through new stones... 128 cyans -> 64 orange -> 32 purple -> 16 (something) and so on until you get one that is equiv to 128 cyans to combine with a semi-ult to make it into an ult).

IMO there would be no reason for a less than half or weaker SEMI...

You are still doing the same work as with the Ultimate Charm... you are just combining it halfway thru to get some use out of all the hard work you have done so far.  No need for penalties just because the idea came a little later and some people plowed past that point.

Ya know...I'd be satisfied if...

A semi ultimate charm could keep the same exact stats as a level 25 guardian charm, except combine the effects from the other 3 charms, and I'd be happy as hell.

Add a lil bonus with a lil extra HP for icing on the cake.

Farming 100 cyans takes around 95 hours. Farming 100 LDoN upgrades takes less than 40 hours.

how does it take less than 40 hours?

since you can't make trains of more than 10 in a custom zone like ldon6...

Think you are lucky if you got all 100 charm upgrades in 40 hours.  That's 2.5 charm upgrades an hour.  I went 4 hours sometimes without an upgrade.

It's luck of the draw, and slower for non warriors~

Farming 100 Cyan doesnt take 95 hours, or maybe depend on how many you are to farm them, actually its at least  2 cyan per hour so 50h for 100 cyan.

To get an Ultimate charm done, you spend almost the same time for an RoA 100, but the benefit is really better ;)

RoA need an upgrade, maybe more hp and for sure a better rune, 10k is nothing when you kill T3 boss  :'(

yeah, takes like what... 2 hits maybe? maybe like a 50K rune or higher *shrug*

or lower reuse time drastically

To make Padme's statement above correct you have to add at the beginning:
"If you can box a group..."

otherwise we go back to the beginning of this thread over whether you have to box to farm T3 or not lol.

Yes Qualin, if you can multi box ... you will be able to farm cyan "fast"  ??? otherwise it will take a life ...

And about the RoA rune, it doesnt take 1 hit, rune is 10k, avatar hit around 30k, and T3 boss hit between 30 and 40k, and with the reuse time ... its almost useless  :'(

To make it better,  he will need and upgrade, like you said 50k rune ...

And thats only if we wanna make it able to absorb 1 hit...

things are so inflated on EZ its hard to make RoA useful without completely making you invincible outside of T3/T4

I have my RoA 100, and find it useful in zones like Qvic and such still... but making it like say... 100k (2ish hits in T3/T4)... it makes you nearly unkillable in those zones. especially with the reuse time only moderate. say a warrior has 80k + 100k rune.... pulls mobs in Qvic, it takes a few rounds to break through and start hitting HP. a couple more rounds, click the rune, HP regens back to full, rune breaks, few hits, reuse.

Makes it much much easier in cases like that. So for RoA idk what would be good for it. all i know is 10k rune is LOL

Starting a new thread about RoA, this post is for Semi Ultimate Charm ;)

And nothing more to say about it, you can multibox and you will be able to work on it, you cant multibox and it will take you life to complete it  :'(