EZ Server

The T3 warrior glasses cool down is currently set to 2400.   This seems a bit long.   From this items inception until sometime between 03/15 and now the CD on this item was, I believe, 1200.    It seems this could be reduced to 1800 CD with no game breaking effects.   I may be wrong with the numbers, been awhile.    1800 seems reasonable though.

Godtank mentioned this the other night,  I'm just posting. 


Request that the CD of the T3 glasses be reverted back to what it was or reduced to at most 1800. 

Thanks

Agree on this, the length it's at now has the effect of adding boring down time between pulls. In T10, my toons including MT die whether I have glasses on or not, but the added benefit of glasses makes it worth waiting sometimes - the current delay just makes it a boring wait. I'd rather see it back to its original value as the change was never discussed on the boards, but something in between is better than what it is now.

I guess I don't understand the need for the time to be reduced...yeah at some point it got moved from 3 to 5 mins I think, could certainly be incorrect about the specific timing on recast but I've never seen these as a balance point for progression.  It's an Oh Shit type of get out of jail free card, you see health dropping and heals aren't landing yet or you pull a shitload of mobs and realize that you forgot to have your alts follow you so you pop it to give enough time for them to either get in range or use CoH clicky and summon them to you.  It's handy to have up, but it's not something you pop on refresh just because it's there.  I don't think the recast increase was overly substantial and the item is still invaluable with the current cooldown timer, maybe people were over-using it to the point of Hate feeling the need to adjust it to a longer cooldown. Hateborne and I may not have always agreed on things, but I don't doubt that him actively adjusting the cooldown timer for this item was something he did without a great deal of thought before implementing it. 

My opinion, and it's simply an opinion, is that I get as much usefulness out of the click now as I did before so I don't understand why it needs to be addressed

The CD was lengthened when SK got the ability to use them, I believe....and was done to 1) prevent an "invincible tank" situation, and 2) to provide a bit of balance. Before you could effectively mass pull any non T10 zone, turn, hit the RayBans and loot.....then immediately pull and do it all over again. With the 5 min CD its less likely.

With Dim on this one. As annoying as it can be at times the longer CD makes "invincibility" less likely.

Interesting, I would assert that an SK should not be able to use a warrior disc (Furious), period.      So this nerf was put in place to accommodate the 1 or 2 people that wanted to go outside the norm and tank with an SK.     Not even sure there are any active SK tank groups as Watchyoudie does not seem to play any longer.   Very, very interesting.     I mean since SK's get warrior discs, can my war get the ability to cast Shy Crustaceans Soul Eater II?    That extra aoe dps would be pretty sweet.  



I think a 4 min CD would be perfectly sufficient.   It used to be 2 min right, or 3?  

The logic on decreasing this and allowing SK to use doesn't make sense to me. Paladins also have goggles now as well apparently.

I think this should have been discussed on the board prior and would suggest it go back to the original value or something in between.

I noticed Hate took this from 3 to 4 mins, then suddenly 5 minutes with no mention of the change. It may have even been as low as 2 mins before I can't recall at this point.

I'm honestly not trying to troll this at all, but what can you not do with the timer as it is now that you could do with the previous cooldown timer?  It was adjusted a good while ago and these are the first comments anyone has brought up concerning it, so I'm guessing for most people it was a non issue.  The argument that it used to be x recast and is now y recast doesn't really apply since the change was obviously intentional and in the best interests of the game regardless if was opened to public feedback or not.

I'll give a specific example:

Before in T9 (pulling 20 mobs) -

"Great, my goggles are almost ready, I'll wait 10 seconds for them to finish because it'll be worth it. Less likely my tank will go down and it will save me some time doing extra damage to a bunch of mobs quickly."

Now in T9 (still pulling 20 mobs) -

"Damn, my goggles still need 2 or 3 minutes to be ready. I might as well wait since it's short and worth it, but this sucks while I just sit here doing nothing in between every pull for two minutes. Also, if I am impatient and decide to pull, the mobs will die slower making it pointless not to wait. Also, I have to redo my keys so the goggles don't accidentally pop while I am in the middle of killing - before this wasn't a problem - now it's annoying."

Also, a lot of people noticed this and complained in /tells. Just didn't make it to the boards till now. I don't think changes like this should be made ninja style and then assumed everything is okay if no one posts on the boards. I also saw the change happen shortly before Hate's big thread, so wasn't very long ago, and other drama took precedence at the time.

I see your point.   My point is, making it a 4 min CD would have 0 impact really for those that use it like you do.   

This was actually exactly what was done. Just saying. Almost exactly from Hate's text when he made the change. It was a 3 day testing event with the SK and Pally to get it mostly balanced out. The idea was that the Warrior would have about a 30% edge over the Pally and SK for tanking. So the pivotal item came down to, well one, this item. So he made the decision to give those items to the SK and Pally with their current cool down timers. Then it was pointed out to him the use of the item and the ease at which it is used with the old cool down timer. Thus he made the decision to bump the Warrior's timer up slightly to even the playing field between the 3 tanking classes.

I haven't noticed a big change in game play really. In T9 I usually pull a good pull, 30ish mobs and not use the item, and then when they are refreshed I pull the 70+ mobs and mow them down. It is still prolly one of the most powerful items in the game for mass pulling/back farming.

As with every other thread that brings light onto an item, beware of what you shine the light on.

As far as pulling 20 mobs in T9, if you can't pull 20 without using the click then pull less...you are choosing downtime because you are using the click as a way to be able to do what you otherwise couldn't do.  I don't know if I am following you correctly, but that's just what it appears you are saying.  And the click wouldn't have any impact on my playstyle if it was 2 minute refresh, 1 minute refresh or 30 second refresh so why not ask for those?  

Where does it become unbalanced, at what point should you be able to have on demand frontal immunity to melee attacks?  I mean warriors already have the best mitigation, get the most return on ultimate charms, get the highest return on earring of ages, on demand single target agro with no recast (epic 3.0 click), lockdown passive AE agro, on demand AE agro with 3 second cooldown, from T7+ an HoT that scales to your hp on killshot, highest riposte chance and because of these things is the highest dps toon with the most survivability in most every group they run in...this click having a little bit longer cooldown doesn't change any of that.  At what point does rebuttal click become too much or too little? 5 minutes still seems pretty reasonable considering the lockout on the actual discipline is in excess of 20 and using the click doesn't lock out the discipline.

Valid point about the timing of this, with all the other drama going on at the time it could have easily been noticed but not prioritized by the general populace and in Akka people see an opportunity to have their concerns acknowledged and possibly addressed so it makes sense that it would come to light now.  I just haven't seen people voicing concerns over it until this forum thread, so that's my point of reference concerning it.

AKA maybe it should be nerfed more.

I don't know about you guys but I hate ninja nerfs. Sounds like you guys were more aware of this change than I was but this is the first I've heard of it. I hate that this was given to SKs and pallys for the record - I think it was a terrible idea. To then up the time for warriors was a big mistake.

Just my 2cp.

To be perfectly clear Dim I can handle 20 mobs in T9 and more without the goggles - like Rent if I really want I can pull 70 mobs and click goggles and this doesn't change that. That's not how I usually play though. My problem is the timer doesn't affect you with the way you use it, but it does affect me and a lot of other folks. I had to change my hotkeys to accommodate the new timer, and I often find myself waiting the two minutes for the click because I know it will allow me to take down mobs faster. Problem is, I could take em down faster before, but without waiting 2 minutes every pull. If I farm for 3 hours that can really add up to a lot of sitting around for nothing - makes the game more boring.

So why not just knock the cooldown to 30 seconds?  Certainly that would be a lot less sitting around for nothing and make the game more exciting, following that line of logic.

Because no one can pull that fast anyway. Old timer was good for a click every pull if you're willing to wait a bit sometimes and if you play a little slow like me. New time creates incentive to wait a couple minutes between pulls, which is boring.  :(

If you're intentionally waiting for the click timer to be up, that's on you...there's a shitload of mobs that can die in under 2 minutes that you're ignoring.  And whether or not someone could pull fast enough to facilitate a 30 second refresh, it would all but guarantee that the timer was up every time you needed it so why not ask for 30 seconds?  I'm guessing the answer is somewhere between 30 seconds would be fine and 30 seconds would be ridiculously overpowered...likely falling closer to the latter than the former.

Why not make it 20 minutes then? ;)

I think the way it was before was fine. Now I find myself waiting because the way I play it's smart to wait for repop. I don't pull furiously apparently. Point is the extra wait and changing my hotkeys sucks.

I'd hope you can pull that much, you are in T10 gear.  

 Making SK's and Pallies viable tanks was a poor decision that led to a significant waste of time and I would guess burnout, but whatevs.  

4 min CD would not be game breaking on this item.

There was a large out cry for SK and Pally to be able to do what the Warrior could do, according to Hateborne. The two classes were brought up in power while the Warrior only saw one minor change. The SK was given a vast array of spells, epic's were redone, item added, etc. Similarly the Paladin was given a considerable amount of love.

With or without T10 armor pulling in T9 was largely unaffected. What did affect T9 considerably was the lvl 50 earring, 1k ROA, maxxed SoA, etc.

Fact is, if you can pull 50 mobs and stand there you can kill them with or without the click item, difference is time. And, as pointed out already, if you can not pull XXX amount of mobs without the click maybe you are not geared well enough to do so in the first place.

So really the click item is a convenience item.  It is a breaking into a Tier item or it is a back farming item.

Breaking in its used to overcome that "learning curve" or "gear curve" of the new zone. It is the "oh crap" every other pull item until the crew is geared well enough to get over that hump.

Back farming it is basically used no differently than the old UW "click boom" click was, and we see what happened to that.

As stated before though, we are arguing the merits of 120 seconds? It's not as if we are debating "the difference a day makes" here. We are at an impasse of what is more or less convenient to certain players. Hell some people just don't like change, that's cool too.

I personally think this is a circular argument that could go on for years over the merits of two minutes on an item that has been in the game and unchanged for years.

Peign,
I would have thought that if anyone on this server would have enjoyed the changes to the SK class it would have been you. You played a SK as a main tank for a long time and fiercely defended the abilities of the class for the role.

Others have thought the same about the Paladin class and that their role should be that of the main tank, or at the least the best secondary tank (or SK).

But, I will close with, I hope you all get either a great compromise or an end to the debate by seeing the item go unchanged with final word from Akkadius. 

I say just remove the item from the game.  I have geared through t10 and never used the item (it is in my bank though).....so it's not needed, just a convenience.

Item 1:  I doubt that, considering there have been 1 or 2 SK tanks and what 0 paladin tanks?    Real reason was prolly cause he like SK's and Wizzies and thought they should tank or whatevs.   Hence SK's and Wizzies are leet now,   /shrug     Raise your hand if you actively tank with a paladin or SK?     I know Watchyoudie did.  

Item 2:   UW click was awesome.   UW used to be ultimate.  

Item 3:  60 seconds actually,  by your logic it should not matter to you if the CD is reduced by 60 seconds to 4 min.    So really why argue?   Just like pvp should not have mattered to those that did not pvp.    Actually, by this logic why change it anyway?  For some arbitrary balance based on 1 persons opinion (tainted with hubris).   This item has existed since what, 2010, maybe before?    It was named after Crab the wall right?  So when did he play, 2009?   I started in 2010 and did not know him.  

You and I have always played much much different games.  Much different   :)      IMO time matters, period.  

I say remove glasses all together and learn to play the game as it should be instead of wanting wishing the glasses are your insta win button

I'm not in T10 gear. I still suck at T10, and I am actually rather enjoying that.

T9 was a joke after the nerfs. You shouldnt be able to zone in with T8 gear and be able to pull 30 to 50 mobs, and I could (and did). Now pulling 100ish isnt that big of a deal with the glasses. Without.....30 or so is still very easily survivable. Hate had/has some issues (ok, lets be honest......he had volumes), but you cannot discount all the man did because you didnt agree with some things. I think his attempts at balancing things were justifiable, and in many cases spot on.

The easier this server is....the less "grindy" it is....the less people will play here, even if they are too lacking in self awareness to admit the fact. I for one am hoping Akk makes some things more difficult rather than easier.

Back to this old argument.  ::)

EDIT: Wait I got a better one...

Yeah, well, that's just Focus Hope opinion man.  ;D

Its the same argument, GT. This thread just rehashes it.

Well, then, thank god there are guilds like Focus Hope on the server with some sense :D

True, which is why I didn't make this thread myself. It always ends up boiling down to the same thing, the silent majority thinks something, but mostly folks from FH show up wanting everything to be harder. I don't blame you for wanting a harder game at all - in fact I respect it - I just wish folks would ask for these things before they finish T9 and T10. And at the very least, they shouldn't be done ninja style.

I guess we can thank FH for making the game harder after we beat it. :P

Regardless, we don't agree on everything Chunka, but I generally see your point of view.

I say get rid of the item except for mine then have no refresh time so I can pull all of T10 at once and survive. I don't want to learn how to play the game.

Are we missing any of the regulars? Just checking. I see we got Orthanos already can't remember if we're missing someone.

this is just wrong in it's entirety.  Content is normally made easier after a few people have already beaten or mostly completed it.  When all the other people finally break into the content and complain about it being too hard....let's see t6,t7,t8,t9....so yeah so far that is correct. So this has been an issue for awhile.

Whatevs gl hf hopefully Akka changes this back.

The implementation of the XP mask coupled with /ooc Buffs in nexus in 5 min helped significantly reduce the grind of the server.   I'd say hands down that was the worst item ever implemented.     Everyone gets elite XP and thus can power level up the items that really make a difference.   You have peeps in T5 with RoA 400, 500, etc.   Cant see how XP is grindy if you get a 975 xp buff.  

Remove XP mask, remove MGB from non-casters, maybe a grind comes back.  

I believe when you broke into T9 it was pre-drake nerf right?    If so, I'm sure that made a difference.   Anyway, things evolve and the server is what it is.   I do not claim to have all the answers, just wanted to start a discussion on a particular item.    Had no idea people were so passionate about it.

I have 36 kills in TSuq, errr I mean T10

Hate already nerfed mask and buffs to address that - agree it was necessary.

Let's not pretend there weren't items and mechanics 100x better than any goggle timer issue of late. Folks who used these things without complaint are well represented here.

Only 3 people in FH from what I know is in full T10. Me, Dim, and Ray. Rent is close. We got our armor during the 5 min sunglasses. It really doesn't matter if you have 3 min or 5 min difference in T10 if you don't have enough UW's and enough healing power you're going to die regardless.

I like the 3 min more because I use my sunglasses all the time even when I pull in qvic. It just makes killing faster.

I know that's why I said T9 and T10. I also said goggles don't help much in T10 in my initial post.

I also like 3 min more.

We agree on everything!  :)

LOL 100% riposte on T7 BP  + OMM Pulls Zone =  1000 ROA for a few     I remember people zone pulling T7 as a solo warrior with that.    It was nerfed just before I go it lol.

but, based on logic I see here (wait illogic)  if you do not use something to progress then it is CLEARLY not needed.   That being said, I've not used wizards, rogues, beast lords or necromancers to progress to T9 (TSuq started), so by logic delivered in this thread, those classes should be removed from the game.  

hehehe see you like to just stir the shit with that comment alone. We all play the same game with the same nerfs that are currently in the game...and some of us can still play it and succeed. I am trying t identify your point...which so far seems that content is too hard for you to beat with the current nerfs.  Maybe I am 100% wrong and i hope so.  Because if I was able to beat the content with current nerfs and you can't well that sounds more like your inability to play the game than the mechanics being too hard.

This is why you bother me Orthanos. You make everything personal and completely misconstrue what people say. Classic straw man arguments. I included myself in my comment regarding items / mechanics.

I'm not going to even respond to your other points if you can call them that.

He doesn't use Furious.   Clearly that disc should be removed from the game!

Let's make a list of what Orthanos didn't/doesn't use to beat the game and we'll remove everything on the list.

Honestly cant remember the timing....but I think it was after the 2nd nerf....before the unnerf.

Now, now... Now that drake is no longer function no one *ever* used it back in the day. You should know this!

and another thread that has outlived it's usefulness

Well lets start...T10:
Use shaman Lingering sloth....druid regen....cleric MoE line.....make sure toons have SoA maxxed and have IG pets (no dps pets or you will die to AoE ramp)....other than that have fun!  It's really not that difficult...when you start the zone expect to die A LOT! Once you start to gear your toons up it becomes better...heck from my understanding juggs have been nerfed dramatically...so it's already easier.
 ::)

Yeah, I was kind of disappointed at the juggy nerf. They used to make pulls interesting.

Haven't been back since that NPC nerf...I hated HATED juggs!  The fact you had to deal with them every time you got that named was always a pita! Was happy when I could raid up with Rent or Blarr...and they could offtank the jugg....of course Blarr is a frigging MACHINE in there lol...my boy!

Please. In past everything was harder and took tremendous time to do. Eventually the things got nerfed or changed for the better pace. AKA Making it easier.

I mean, I started in March 2016 and only in two months, I'm in Tier 9 already. So hard!

Which is why people are vocal about making the server more challenging and/or interesting to keep us hooked in.

On other hand, it can't be helped that maybe 50% of the current population are Focus Hope members and we just happened to have a large guild where we can share our thought and debate with each other. By coincidence, most of us are active on forum too. Not all of us share same agreement. Which is why we found "Focus Hope's opinion" quite hilarious!

Now then, onto the topic. While Glasses 5min cooldown suck, I just work around with it and keep going with my business. So...no real complaint from me, it's a pretty powerful tool to have.

I just use Angry Nerd 6 that killed everything in Qvic, didn't even bother with Furious at all. lol

^ heh

Wonder what that tastes like. Looks fun.