Bashful Crustacean's Rebuttal CD

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[Peign]

The T3 warrior glasses cool down is currently set to 2400.   This seems a bit long.   From this items inception until sometime between 03/15 and now the CD on this item was, I believe, 1200.    It seems this could be reduced to 1800 CD with no game breaking effects.   I may be wrong with the numbers, been awhile.    1800 seems reasonable though.

Godtank mentioned this the other night,  I'm just posting. 


Request that the CD of the T3 glasses be reverted back to what it was or reduced to at most 1800. 

Thanks

[warrior5]

Agree on this, the length it's at now has the effect of adding boring down time between pulls. In T10, my toons including MT die whether I have glasses on or not, but the added benefit of glasses makes it worth waiting sometimes - the current delay just makes it a boring wait. I'd rather see it back to its original value as the change was never discussed on the boards, but something in between is better than what it is now.

[Dimur]

I guess I don't understand the need for the time to be reduced...yeah at some point it got moved from 3 to 5 mins I think, could certainly be incorrect about the specific timing on recast but I've never seen these as a balance point for progression.  It's an Oh Shit type of get out of jail free card, you see health dropping and heals aren't landing yet or you pull a shitload of mobs and realize that you forgot to have your alts follow you so you pop it to give enough time for them to either get in range or use CoH clicky and summon them to you.  It's handy to have up, but it's not something you pop on refresh just because it's there.  I don't think the recast increase was overly substantial and the item is still invaluable with the current cooldown timer, maybe people were over-using it to the point of Hate feeling the need to adjust it to a longer cooldown. Hateborne and I may not have always agreed on things, but I don't doubt that him actively adjusting the cooldown timer for this item was something he did without a great deal of thought before implementing it. 

My opinion, and it's simply an opinion, is that I get as much usefulness out of the click now as I did before so I don't understand why it needs to be addressed

[Chunka]

The CD was lengthened when SK got the ability to use them, I believe....and was done to 1) prevent an "invincible tank" situation, and 2) to provide a bit of balance. Before you could effectively mass pull any non T10 zone, turn, hit the RayBans and loot.....then immediately pull and do it all over again. With the 5 min CD its less likely.

With Dim on this one. As annoying as it can be at times the longer CD makes "invincibility" less likely.

[Peign]

Interesting, I would assert that an SK should not be able to use a warrior disc (Furious), period.      So this nerf was put in place to accommodate the 1 or 2 people that wanted to go outside the norm and tank with an SK.     Not even sure there are any active SK tank groups as Watchyoudie does not seem to play any longer.   Very, very interesting.     I mean since SK's get warrior discs, can my war get the ability to cast Shy Crustaceans Soul Eater II?    That extra aoe dps would be pretty sweet.  



I think a 4 min CD would be perfectly sufficient.   It used to be 2 min right, or 3?  

[warrior5]

The logic on decreasing this and allowing SK to use doesn't make sense to me. Paladins also have goggles now as well apparently.

I think this should have been discussed on the board prior and would suggest it go back to the original value or something in between.

I noticed Hate took this from 3 to 4 mins, then suddenly 5 minutes with no mention of the change. It may have even been as low as 2 mins before I can't recall at this point.

[Dimur]

I'm honestly not trying to troll this at all, but what can you not do with the timer as it is now that you could do with the previous cooldown timer?  It was adjusted a good while ago and these are the first comments anyone has brought up concerning it, so I'm guessing for most people it was a non issue.  The argument that it used to be x recast and is now y recast doesn't really apply since the change was obviously intentional and in the best interests of the game regardless if was opened to public feedback or not.

[warrior5]

I'll give a specific example:

Before in T9 (pulling 20 mobs) -

"Great, my goggles are almost ready, I'll wait 10 seconds for them to finish because it'll be worth it. Less likely my tank will go down and it will save me some time doing extra damage to a bunch of mobs quickly."

Now in T9 (still pulling 20 mobs) -

"Damn, my goggles still need 2 or 3 minutes to be ready. I might as well wait since it's short and worth it, but this sucks while I just sit here doing nothing in between every pull for two minutes. Also, if I am impatient and decide to pull, the mobs will die slower making it pointless not to wait. Also, I have to redo my keys so the goggles don't accidentally pop while I am in the middle of killing - before this wasn't a problem - now it's annoying."

Also, a lot of people noticed this and complained in /tells. Just didn't make it to the boards till now. I don't think changes like this should be made ninja style and then assumed everything is okay if no one posts on the boards. I also saw the change happen shortly before Hate's big thread, so wasn't very long ago, and other drama took precedence at the time.

[Peign]

I'm honestly not trying to troll this at all, but what can you not do with the timer as it is now that you could do with the previous cooldown timer?  It was adjusted a good while ago and these are the first comments anyone has brought up concerning it, so I'm guessing for most people it was a non issue.  The argument that it used to be x recast and is now y recast doesn't really apply since the change was obviously intentional and in the best interests of the game regardless if was opened to public feedback or not.

I see your point.   My point is, making it a 4 min CD would have 0 impact really for those that use it like you do.   

[Rent Due]

The CD was lengthened when SK got the ability to use them, I believe....and was done to 1) prevent an "invincible tank" situation, and 2) to provide a bit of balance. Before you could effectively mass pull any non T10 zone, turn, hit the RayBans and loot.....then immediately pull and do it all over again. With the 5 min CD its less likely.

With Dim on this one. As annoying as it can be at times the longer CD makes "invincibility" less likely.

This was actually exactly what was done. Just saying. Almost exactly from Hate's text when he made the change. It was a 3 day testing event with the SK and Pally to get it mostly balanced out. The idea was that the Warrior would have about a 30% edge over the Pally and SK for tanking. So the pivotal item came down to, well one, this item. So he made the decision to give those items to the SK and Pally with their current cool down timers. Then it was pointed out to him the use of the item and the ease at which it is used with the old cool down timer. Thus he made the decision to bump the Warrior's timer up slightly to even the playing field between the 3 tanking classes.

I haven't noticed a big change in game play really. In T9 I usually pull a good pull, 30ish mobs and not use the item, and then when they are refreshed I pull the 70+ mobs and mow them down. It is still prolly one of the most powerful items in the game for mass pulling/back farming.

As with every other thread that brings light onto an item, beware of what you shine the light on.

[Dimur]

As far as pulling 20 mobs in T9, if you can't pull 20 without using the click then pull less...you are choosing downtime because you are using the click as a way to be able to do what you otherwise couldn't do.  I don't know if I am following you correctly, but that's just what it appears you are saying.  And the click wouldn't have any impact on my playstyle if it was 2 minute refresh, 1 minute refresh or 30 second refresh so why not ask for those?  

Where does it become unbalanced, at what point should you be able to have on demand frontal immunity to melee attacks?  I mean warriors already have the best mitigation, get the most return on ultimate charms, get the highest return on earring of ages, on demand single target agro with no recast (epic 3.0 click), lockdown passive AE agro, on demand AE agro with 3 second cooldown, from T7+ an HoT that scales to your hp on killshot, highest riposte chance and because of these things is the highest dps toon with the most survivability in most every group they run in...this click having a little bit longer cooldown doesn't change any of that.  At what point does rebuttal click become too much or too little? 5 minutes still seems pretty reasonable considering the lockout on the actual discipline is in excess of 20 and using the click doesn't lock out the discipline.

Valid point about the timing of this, with all the other drama going on at the time it could have easily been noticed but not prioritized by the general populace and in Akka people see an opportunity to have their concerns acknowledged and possibly addressed so it makes sense that it would come to light now.  I just haven't seen people voicing concerns over it until this forum thread, so that's my point of reference concerning it.

[warrior5]

As with every other thread that brings light onto an item, beware of what you shine the light on.

AKA maybe it should be nerfed more.

I don't know about you guys but I hate ninja nerfs. Sounds like you guys were more aware of this change than I was but this is the first I've heard of it. I hate that this was given to SKs and pallys for the record - I think it was a terrible idea. To then up the time for warriors was a big mistake.

Just my 2cp.

[warrior5]

To be perfectly clear Dim I can handle 20 mobs in T9 and more without the goggles - like Rent if I really want I can pull 70 mobs and click goggles and this doesn't change that. That's not how I usually play though. My problem is the timer doesn't affect you with the way you use it, but it does affect me and a lot of other folks. I had to change my hotkeys to accommodate the new timer, and I often find myself waiting the two minutes for the click because I know it will allow me to take down mobs faster. Problem is, I could take em down faster before, but without waiting 2 minutes every pull. If I farm for 3 hours that can really add up to a lot of sitting around for nothing - makes the game more boring.

[Dimur]

So why not just knock the cooldown to 30 seconds?  Certainly that would be a lot less sitting around for nothing and make the game more exciting, following that line of logic.

[warrior5]

Because no one can pull that fast anyway. Old timer was good for a click every pull if you're willing to wait a bit sometimes and if you play a little slow like me. New time creates incentive to wait a couple minutes between pulls, which is boring. 

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