Bashful Crustacean's Rebuttal CD

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[Dimur]

If you're intentionally waiting for the click timer to be up, that's on you...there's a shitload of mobs that can die in under 2 minutes that you're ignoring.  And whether or not someone could pull fast enough to facilitate a 30 second refresh, it would all but guarantee that the timer was up every time you needed it so why not ask for 30 seconds?  I'm guessing the answer is somewhere between 30 seconds would be fine and 30 seconds would be ridiculously overpowered...likely falling closer to the latter than the former.

[warrior5]

Why not make it 20 minutes then?

I think the way it was before was fine. Now I find myself waiting because the way I play it's smart to wait for repop. I don't pull furiously apparently. Point is the extra wait and changing my hotkeys sucks.

[Peign]

I haven't noticed a big change in game play really. In T9 I usually pull a good pull, 30ish mobs and not use the item, and then when they are refreshed I pull the 70+ mobs and mow them down. It is still prolly one of the most powerful items in the game for mass pulling/back farming.

I'd hope you can pull that much, you are in T10 gear.  

 Making SK's and Pallies viable tanks was a poor decision that led to a significant waste of time and I would guess burnout, but whatevs.  

4 min CD would not be game breaking on this item.

[Rent Due]

I haven't noticed a big change in game play really. In T9 I usually pull a good pull, 30ish mobs and not use the item, and then when they are refreshed I pull the 70+ mobs and mow them down. It is still prolly one of the most powerful items in the game for mass pulling/back farming.

I'd hope you can pull that much, you are in T10 gear.  

 Making SK's and Pallies viable tanks was a poor decision that led to a significant waste of time and I would guess burnout, but whatevs.  

4 min CD would not be game breaking on this item.

There was a large out cry for SK and Pally to be able to do what the Warrior could do, according to Hateborne. The two classes were brought up in power while the Warrior only saw one minor change. The SK was given a vast array of spells, epic's were redone, item added, etc. Similarly the Paladin was given a considerable amount of love.

With or without T10 armor pulling in T9 was largely unaffected. What did affect T9 considerably was the lvl 50 earring, 1k ROA, maxxed SoA, etc.

Fact is, if you can pull 50 mobs and stand there you can kill them with or without the click item, difference is time. And, as pointed out already, if you can not pull XXX amount of mobs without the click maybe you are not geared well enough to do so in the first place.

So really the click item is a convenience item.  It is a breaking into a Tier item or it is a back farming item.

Breaking in its used to overcome that "learning curve" or "gear curve" of the new zone. It is the "oh crap" every other pull item until the crew is geared well enough to get over that hump.

Back farming it is basically used no differently than the old UW "click boom" click was, and we see what happened to that.

As stated before though, we are arguing the merits of 120 seconds? It's not as if we are debating "the difference a day makes" here. We are at an impasse of what is more or less convenient to certain players. Hell some people just don't like change, that's cool too.

I personally think this is a circular argument that could go on for years over the merits of two minutes on an item that has been in the game and unchanged for years.

Peign,
I would have thought that if anyone on this server would have enjoyed the changes to the SK class it would have been you. You played a SK as a main tank for a long time and fiercely defended the abilities of the class for the role.

Others have thought the same about the Paladin class and that their role should be that of the main tank, or at the least the best secondary tank (or SK).

But, I will close with, I hope you all get either a great compromise or an end to the debate by seeing the item go unchanged with final word from Akkadius. 

[Raygan]

I say just remove the item from the game.  I have geared through t10 and never used the item (it is in my bank though).....so it's not needed, just a convenience.

[Peign]

There was a large out cry for SK and Pally to be able to do what the Warrior could do, according to Hateborne. The two classes were brought up in power while the Warrior only saw one minor change. The SK was given a vast array of spells, epic's were redone, item added, etc. Similarly the Paladin was given a considerable amount of love.

Back farming it is basically used no differently than the old UW "click boom" click was, and we see what happened to that.

As stated before though, we are arguing the merits of 120 seconds? It's not as if we are debating "the difference a day makes" here. We are at an impasse of what is more or less convenient to certain players. Hell some people just don't like change, that's cool too.

Item 1:  I doubt that, considering there have been 1 or 2 SK tanks and what 0 paladin tanks?    Real reason was prolly cause he like SK's and Wizzies and thought they should tank or whatevs.   Hence SK's and Wizzies are leet now,   /shrug     Raise your hand if you actively tank with a paladin or SK?     I know Watchyoudie did.  

Item 2:   UW click was awesome.   UW used to be ultimate.  

Item 3:  60 seconds actually,  by your logic it should not matter to you if the CD is reduced by 60 seconds to 4 min.    So really why argue?   Just like pvp should not have mattered to those that did not pvp.    Actually, by this logic why change it anyway?  For some arbitrary balance based on 1 persons opinion (tainted with hubris).   This item has existed since what, 2010, maybe before?    It was named after Crab the wall right?  So when did he play, 2009?   I started in 2010 and did not know him.  

You and I have always played much much different games.  Much different        IMO time matters, period.  

[hardcoretank]

I say remove glasses all together and learn to play the game as it should be instead of wanting wishing the glasses are your insta win button

[Chunka]

I'm not in T10 gear. I still suck at T10, and I am actually rather enjoying that.

T9 was a joke after the nerfs. You shouldnt be able to zone in with T8 gear and be able to pull 30 to 50 mobs, and I could (and did). Now pulling 100ish isnt that big of a deal with the glasses. Without.....30 or so is still very easily survivable. Hate had/has some issues (ok, lets be honest......he had volumes), but you cannot discount all the man did because you didnt agree with some things. I think his attempts at balancing things were justifiable, and in many cases spot on.

The easier this server is....the less "grindy" it is....the less people will play here, even if they are too lacking in self awareness to admit the fact. I for one am hoping Akk makes some things more difficult rather than easier.

[warrior5]

Back to this old argument.  

EDIT: Wait I got a better one...

Yeah, well, that's just Focus Hope opinion man. 

[Chunka]

Its the same argument, GT. This thread just rehashes it.

[Chunka]

Well, then, thank god there are guilds like Focus Hope on the server with some sense

[warrior5]

True, which is why I didn't make this thread myself. It always ends up boiling down to the same thing, the silent majority thinks something, but mostly folks from FH show up wanting everything to be harder. I don't blame you for wanting a harder game at all - in fact I respect it - I just wish folks would ask for these things before they finish T9 and T10. And at the very least, they shouldn't be done ninja style.

I guess we can thank FH for making the game harder after we beat it.

Regardless, we don't agree on everything Chunka, but I generally see your point of view.

[Mersedez]

I say get rid of the item except for mine then have no refresh time so I can pull all of T10 at once and survive. I don't want to learn how to play the game.

[warrior5]

Are we missing any of the regulars? Just checking. I see we got Orthanos already can't remember if we're missing someone.

[Raygan]

I guess we can thank FH for making the game harder after we beat it.

this is just wrong in it's entirety.  Content is normally made easier after a few people have already beaten or mostly completed it.  When all the other people finally break into the content and complain about it being too hard....let's see t6,t7,t8,t9....so yeah so far that is correct. So this has been an issue for awhile.

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