the ones so far using hostility towards me so far have been :

Xiggie

Bikaf

Thyl

And now kaizen jumping in.

Kaizen's earlier posts:

i wouldn't have asked if i already knew to hail him..

he says something about losing something in the field and you would know what it was when you found it..
i killed skeletons for a few hours and didn't find anything unusual

please don't respond to this post unless you have done the quest and know what it is about

thanks

Link  http://ezserver.online/forums/index.php?topic=324.msg3174#msg3174

I am not sure why Thyl, Bikaf and Xiggie seem to have a problem with me (is it my cologne?) But if they have such a problem with me taking it to pm's instead of causing forum drama i think is the best way to go.

Where did i say ninjalooting was ok? i explained why many ninjaloot not that it is ok to do it. i have never and will never agree that ninjalooting is ok and i have never done it myself. i ask the group killing it what they are there for be it pages, tokens or what ever. Then ask if its ok to check it out. And now in qvic you have people destroying tokens and such so no rotts like there was.

You are giving a reason why people do it... There is no reason to do it.  Giving a reason is validation.  If people are destroying tokens it's their right to do as they killed the mob. It's really the ninjalooting that is fueling things like that.

I can kill 1 trash mob with my 2.5 pet in qvic. 1 single add and i'm toast though. i have seen 3.0 warriors attack 2 mobs of trash then go down before.

I'm not sure of the relevance of this statement as I never said people one toon Qvic.  3.0s are a huge benefit but they don't give you godly power.  I understand Qvic is tough. I've spent a ton of hours there. However it is the normal progression that has been in place for a long long time and not everyone who has a 3.0 had to box to do it.

I do find it funny how when i bring some thing up i am met with hostility. Yet a player can post :

Link to it http://ezserver.online/forums/index.php?topic=339.0

And he is met with praise and a red carpet >_< I bring up a few points and ask a few questions and i'm met with all forms of hostility. Why is that? i have demanded nothing and not treated any one with hostility. yet i'm met with all kinds of it in forms of name calling. Not sure why asking questions and in some cases asking for help (notice i have never demanded it?) means "ok lets pile on this dude as his views do not fit in my view of how things are" It is mind boggling to say the least. So to be treated fairly as well as not have hostility piled on me i should name call and demand things? 0_o

Maybe you should yourself analyze this. Or try to figure out why you get into so many of these situations with people in game and on the forums.  A lot of the people who makes these "hostile" posts have been people I, and others, have found to be very amiable and generous.  Just something to consider...

Even the guy in your link had screenshots of technological hurdles he was trying to surpass to progress.

Explaining a motive for a murder is justifying it? 0_o By your response it seems you believe it to be so >_<

So for me to analyze why others seem to have a problem with me? 0_o In game i have ran into very few problems. On these forums though i seem to run into hostility with almost every post. I do not name call and i do not demand things. These people may seem generous and amiable here but i have as yet to see it except from a very few people.

 So posting your thoughts and views on some thing gives every one who disagree with your thoughts and views a right to be hostile and act like children on a playground? Thats mind boggling. A post as stated before was posted asking for peoples ages. The majority of those who voted were in the 21 years of age and older category. so why then if this is acurate by any sense can people not post and discuss things like adults? 0_o

Why all the hostility? Why the jabs and name calling?

its not hostility.. its just i don't want to deal with or come into contact with a player like you

plain and simple

Like me? 0_o so i'm now in some sort of category?

Oh yeah and never mind Secrets saying i brought up some good points right?

Actually, i'll agree with the OP here. While it may be encouraging grouping, the flaw of a tier based system is backflagging people for all the tiers. It makes the rich get richer, and the newer players not have any chance at competing, nor is there any incentive for older players to hang out in the previous tier zones.

There is a simple fix to this concept rather than working around it and making everything soloable; add an incentive for older players to come back and help newer players. An example would be having LDON points drop if a player's groupmate is not flagged for any of the LDON content, but previously said player is. I could code something like this in perl if it were wanted. It's the flaw and what turns me off from most custom servers these days. You can't solo everything and the rich get richer. And if your friends quit or stop playing as much? You get bored and /ex out.

The OP makes a valid point and i'm sure if anyone has more suggestions than I do, you should speak up instead of saying 'lol qq ask for help'

link

http://ezserver.online/forums/index.php?topic=345.msg3574#msg3574

Zolton can i have all of your characters names?

i want to know when to destroy everything on my corpses when you're in the same zone as me.. (I'm sure everyone else wants to know too)

Nothing worse than a MMO player that plays 14 hours a day and cries about everything

Dude what exactly is your problem? where am i crying about anything? I'm not the first and far from the last to mention over camping and such. Go look and read the rants and other posts.

Such as:

Camps are insane now.
http://ezserver.online/forums/index.php?topic=305.0

Trains... Why?
http://ezserver.online/forums/index.php?topic=137.0

PoTimeA
http://ezserver.online/forums/index.php?topic=39.0

Why is it me that gets all the hostility? 0_o

I can easilly see why so few post here. when you are met with this much hostillity for any thing.

No you are met with hostility because you post ludicrous things. You are defending the practice of Ninjalooting.

If these people have no hope for developing social skills and can't box then why should they get gear? They are just going to be gearing toons that never kill anything or participate with anyone and just become blackholes for gear. All they will accomplish is taking gear from polite people and people who were working to gear their alts.

Futher you made some nonsene post earlier about toons with 2.5s not being able to kill in Qvic.  I know thats wrong because I flagged toons for 3.0 with my 2.5 War, Dru, and Mage. Yes there were less people in the zone then but it was tougher then than it is now. You had to wait hours if somebody killed something before you and there was no such thing as rotting tokens.

I do think Qvic is tougher than Tacvi but with so many highly geared toons running around killing stuff and leaving rots for other people it's definitely not the brick wall it used to be.

Where did i say ninjalooting was ok? i explained why many ninjaloot not that it is ok to do it. i have never and will never agree that ninjalooting is ok and i have never done it myself. i ask the group killing it what they are there for be it pages, tokens or what ever. Then ask if its ok to check it out. And now in qvic you have people destroying tokens and such so no rotts like there was.

I can kill 1 trash mob with my 2.5 pet in qvic. 1 single add and i'm toast though. i have seen 3.0 warriors attack 2 mobs of trash then go down before. I do find it funny how when i bring some thing up i am met with hostility. Yet a player can post :

Ok, So i started playing here on this server just a few days ago, and i seem to b running into trouble, and as some of the system messages say, ask fellow players in the game and they will help, but that is a lie! just today ive sat and asked for almost an hour n a half for some help getting the pages for the 1.5 and since i cannot box, i find this unfair that i am not able to recieve help, because others would rather be tools and play with themselves. how is 1 expected to get good and be able to withstand the forces of this server if he or she cant get started. what am i suppose 2 do? i just find this totally unfair, some poeple are playing with full parties of themselves n themselves only n wont lift a finger to help a noob. that is rather BS! what can b done about this?

Link to it http://ezserver.online/forums/index.php?topic=339.0

And he is met with praise and a red carpet >_< I bring up a few points and ask a few questions and i'm met with all forms of hostility. Why is that? i have demanded nothing and not treated any one with hostility. yet i'm met with all kinds of it in forms of name calling. Not sure why asking questions and in some cases asking for help (notice i have never demanded it?) means "ok lets pile on this dude as his views do not fit in my view of how things are" It is mind boggling to say the least. So to be treated fairly as well as not have hostility piled on me i should name call and demand things? 0_o

I can easilly see why so few post here. when you are met with this much hostillity for any thing.

Anyone can look at your post history and see why you are met with hostility.

It's always the same thing:

Zolton: Whaaaa
1st Reply: Stop crying
Zolton: I'm not crying, you didn't read my post - here let me restate everything
2nd - 10th Reply: Dude stop crying.

Wow again the maturity shows through >_< Can we stop acting like kids teasing others on the playground and discuss things like adults?

Back on topic:

Gunthar I am sure that the corpse stays there for 30 minutes looted or not so long as 1 item is left on it. So unless its looted clean it won't poof for 30 minutes. I am unsure why they do not group the people needing the item in the group so it can be looted as soon as possible. My only guess is that the item drops and they realise an alt could use it so they log it in to run there to loot it. In other zones higher up i think its because it takes more then 1 group to kill it so the other group would need to wait the 2.5 minutes to loot.

I can easilly see why so few post here. when you are met with this much hostillity for any thing. In those exampiles of the rules for shaiya it mentions killing the boss as that is what is needed to finish it. The kill and not an item is needed from the mob to procede. But in the case of the bosses in qvic the tokens are the boss (the thing needed to procede) the same as the gear drops and the gems.

I find it funny you tell me to talk to a brick wall (implying you are done trying to talk to me) only to make another post implying i am the brick wall. a lot of mixed signals there. i love how when some one can not discuss some thing with logic they result to name calling. you tried to imply alot of things using quotes and making wild assumptions and taking things out of context. When that failed now you result to name calling? Please tell me you are more mature then this? or have i caught you at a bad time?

It is weird how in this poll http://ezserver.online/forums/index.php?topic=213.0

It shows that the majority of thse who voted who many frequent the forums are over the age of 21. So why then when people on these forums are confronted with some thing conflicting with their views. Or that is new or diferent. Why is it met with such hostility and name calling? Are we children on a playground and i wasn't informed?

Your example in shaiya is quest only bosses. The bosses in qvic are not epic quest only. As a matter of fact, since the bosses in qvic drop quest items for armor so your point is moot regardless. You can twist anything around to fit your convoluted ideas all you want. In the end, common sense wins over idiocy. Now go argue with a brick wall.

So the bosses in qvic are not quest bosses? They do not drop quest items needed to complete the 3.0 epic flag quest? Yes they also drop gear that need combined with a gem to acquire a piece of gear but is that a quest? I love how you go from "i've played those games and you lie" to this response.

Where did i resort to name calling?

I never said they were permacamped

Yes you did:

How can you kill a boss already dead

How is me saying you can't kill a boss already dead saying its permacamped?

I never said that people got to qvic without knowing the controls.

Yes you did:

Some need help learning the controls and commands and what is considered taboo.

i did not say that and again you are misquoting by taking things out of context.

This is a lie. I have played most of the games your talking about (except runescape which is a poor example anyway) and it is not considered griefing to kill a mob just for loot, nor is a bannable. Loot being on mobs is a major incentive to kill mobs. [quote/]

Really so you are saying shaiya has no such rules?

http://forums.aeriagames.com/viewtopic.php?t=792275

For one thing this a nearly invisible scenario. Most people who come to eqemu come from eqlive at some point. But lets just go with it. By the time someone reaches qvic, (the zone you have been referring to in most of your replies) they should know the game controls by then. In addition they should have also noticed by then the little /motd that comes up every time they log in. As for people doing roa in custom zones, if they are training mobs fraps it and get them banned. It is against the rules. If they are not training the mobs then the mobs are laying there with no apparent owner. Ninja looting rules do not apply on abandoned loot.[quote/]

My point is that new players new to the server do not see a diference between the 2 they think if they wanted something on it they should have looted it. I know many players that play games that do not come to the games forums for several reasons. One being the bashing that happens.

I've been on both sides of this. I was the noob saying omgz everytime someone linked tacvi gear in ooc. In no way shape or form did I ever think, even as a noob that I had the right to loot someones rots or that I was being griefed because someone more capable was killing a mob we both needed loot from. [quote/]

How about when they were killing the mob then not needing the token and was destroying it although you could use it? I understand gear but tokens are nothing more then a quest item.

I agree with you on this one. I think it is incredibly inconsiderate of others to ninja loot. Obviously people have not had a problem with sharing loot, we are here because people shared loot and it was taken advantage of.

And i agree that you should ask if it is ok to loot. to that i am in 100% agreement on. I have also asked before and met some people that say no i destroy it to prevent scavengers. So they delete it even on people who do ask and try to follow the rules.

And i was just pointing out why the problem has started and why it may continue to be a problem.

Please excuse me if i'm off base here.

If it was set up that to farm for the qvic armor you need at least 1 person with you who needs tokens would be beneficial. Corpses all over lag the zone alot add to that the warrior augs and such that crash the zone make it a real pita to farm qvic any way. This way they can get their gear and others can get tokens. Not sure why you would think this would not work.

What is your plan in how to implement that?  Will it be a requirement to get into qvic?  Will there be a "holding pen" of sorts for folks that both need armor and their tokens but don't want to do anything but sit back and throw turmoil warts at the bosses?  What about if nobody is available?  Will you be there with fraps to show hunter that somebody is farming gear but not giving you your fair share of tokens?  Making something taboo because you say it is works more against your objective than it does for it.

I'd say this is right up there with your "idea" to have folks camping multiple items at a single spawn to have to leave after they got one and then come back later for their 2nd and 3rd one.

There are rules on other games that deal with that. First rule of it was that you could not camp quest bosses unless you or some one in your party needed the quest. If the mob is up and no one in the zone needs it it is open game. And like the other rules on here its policed by the players. Is there a "holding pen" for kill stealers or those who ninjaloot (like the name of this topic) ? No it is policed by players via fraps/ss's correct?

I never claimed to "need" or "want" "my" share of "tokens" have i? I was just saying and pointing out that this had been done in other games and works well both ways.

As for me putting forth my idea via the people who constantly farm a mob bottle knecking every one else? So in your opinion it is best and alright for some one to set up a permanant camp at a boss others need farming the same item for hours/days keeping every one else from being able to procede? So in your opinion it be ok since i play 14 hours or so a day every day that i could then camp a mob lets say knuckle dusters since they are not lore for my entire time i play getting as many as i can preventing others from getting any?

So you want to do fg quest for an alt or get items for a guildie? well to bad its camped. I got the item i needed but just farming more because i can. So you are now unable to do the quest at all right? In most games its called griefing to do something such as this preventing others from proceding.

Xiggie: We should give credit to Zolton for providing extensive insight and offering solutions to problems he sees on the server.

Although given that the solutions are often poorly thought out and typically geared to temporarily solve his personal problems with total disregard to how it effects the other 100s of players that log in and have came before and will come after is a whole other basket of crap.

And we all know that coming on the forums to complain with no insight or offering of suggestions but to instead complain how so and so looted such and such from a mob that had 2 minutes and 30 seconds to loot with no thought as to why they did it is better? I was pointing out why many do it and offering a way to fix the problem. And i was just pointing out why the problem has started and why it may continue to be a problem.

Actually more to proving mine. How can you kill a boss already dead? I have in the past sat and tried to get a group going for qvic. I sat there for 3+ hours looking for others to group with. Then a group came in i sent a tell asking if they were after tokens and gear? or just tokens. When they said gear i asked to tag along to loot tokens for my epic. They said sure no problem so i tagged along watched and learned and chatted with them. After i got the tokens they offered to do the last 5 i needed to help me out.

It is good that you got help but to suggest the mobs are perma camped is incorrect. I was in there recently and though there were times I had to wait, the wait was actually less than when I started over a year ago because the respawn was reduced from 2 hours. If anything it has gotten easier.

I don't think its so much the new players as the old ones thinking they are to leet to help a new guy out. How are the new players to learn if others are not there to help them out and teach them? Not every player who starts out on ez server are ex raiders or people who have played eq for years. Some need help learning the controls and commands and what is considered taboo. So rather then helping these new players people would much rather gripe and complain about some one trying to get ahead the only way they can?

If you have not figured out the controls by the time you've reached qvic then you should consider finding something else to do with your time than playing games on a computer. As for server etiquette, again you should have learned this already, the rest you can learn from the forums. However to suggest that people don't know that it is impolite to steal loot is incredibly naive. As for learning the content, others before you have learned it just fine. Remember, this server was not born with people having 3.0's.

On some games and servers it is considered taboo to camp quest mobs for gear without a player in the group that needs the quest item. Maybe thats what is needed here. You want to camp qvic mobs to get that last armor piece? Well be forced to take some one along needing the tokens. Which i do not understand why some people that are only there for gear do not invite others needing tokens. But i am guessing they are afraid of them looting gear. If they do that kick them simple enough right?

I've played a lot if different games, I have played most of the green servers on eqemu, I played eqlive, I played wow live and wow emu, and I could go on and on. I have never heard of a game that it was taboo to camp something you need, even if it is a quest item that drops with other items you need. This is a naive one sided ideology.

i have to say you are the quote master /rolleyes You really do not need to quote so much.

I never said they were permacamped. you like to misquote people alot >_<

After the next quote again you misquote me >_<

I never said that people got to qvic without knowing the controls. Please point to where you get these misquotes. You keep pointing your finger and misquotes at me as if i do not read the forums or know the game controls/mechanics. You do so many misquotes you make a persons head hurt to think where to start to reply >_<

Obviously you have not played very many mmorpgs if you have never came across that before. And in other games it is considered griefing to kill a quest mob just for loot. And it is bannable. I have played far to many mmorpgs everything from runescape to free to play mmorpgs such as shaiya to wow to everquest 1 and 2 on live. Each have their own taboos and not all are exactly the same. And each server is diferent.

And i challenge you to show me how a new player totally new to eq let alone ez server is to know everything if they do not even know the website. Then they find most of their loot on corpses left from some one doing roa who has a pile of mobs there left to rott only killed for exp not drops. I'm just saying there are two sides to every story and you should think of the other player/players as well. I think alot of the drama that comes are mainly from people who are inconsiderate of others.

On some games and servers it is considered taboo to camp quest mobs for gear without a player in the group that needs the quest item. Maybe thats what is needed here. You want to camp qvic mobs to get that last armor piece? Well be forced to take some one along needing the tokens.

That wouldn't work when you need Qvic gear to make t0/t1/t2/t3/t4...

That may be true but what is the point of letting tokens rott/destroying them to stop players from progressing? One would think qvic would be more friendly considering you always have people who need tokens and others needing gear. It should be a give and take there as they are farming their gear and the ones needing tokens are looting the rotts. but instead you hear comments made such as "scavengers" or "vultures".

If it was set up that to farm for the qvic armor you need at least 1 person with you who needs tokens would be beneficial. Corpses all over lag the zone alot add to that the warrior augs and such that crash the zone make it a real pita to farm qvic any way. This way they can get their gear and others can get tokens. Not sure why you would think this would not work.

Like i said do not take my word for it create a new character and with no help from your guildies/friends just see how far you can go without asking for help

And what I started here knowing everyone? No, I started here just like most everyone else starts now, knowing no one and not having any leg up. Again, if you are talking about a solo person then yes, they will get stuck in time. It clearly indicates it is a raid zone so you have to bring more than one toon with you. If you are staying that it is not able to be done with 3 or 4 toons, then you just need to change your strat/choice of characters.

My point is that when new players enter there are not many other new players to group with. Most you see are some one elses alt being ran through these zones. So they see alot of rotting corpses and these are what they use to equip themselves with while progressing. Finding 4 new players to hit qvic with is extremely rare. but seeing groups of people slaughtering the zone for gear letting tokens rott is alot more common.

Thus proving my point:

There are ways to progress on this server, it's just those ways are harder than vulturing.

Actually more to proving mine. How can you kill a boss already dead? I have in the past sat and tried to get a group going for qvic. I sat there for 3+ hours looking for others to group with. Then a group came in i sent a tell asking if they were after tokens and gear? or just tokens. When they said gear i asked to tag along to loot tokens for my epic. They said sure no problem so i tagged along watched and learned and chatted with them. After i got the tokens they offered to do the last 5 i needed to help me out.

I don't think its so much the new players as the old ones thinking they are to leet to help a new guy out. How are the new players to learn if others are not there to help them out and teach them? Not every player who starts out on ez server are ex raiders or people who have played eq for years. Some need help learning the controls and commands and what is considered taboo. So rather then helping these new players people would much rather gripe and complain about some one trying to get ahead the only way they can?

On some games and servers it is considered taboo to camp quest mobs for gear without a player in the group that needs the quest item. Maybe thats what is needed here. You want to camp qvic mobs to get that last armor piece? Well be forced to take some one along needing the tokens. Which i do not understand why some people that are only there for gear do not invite others needing tokens. But i am guessing they are afraid of them looting gear. If they do that kick them simple enough right?

Like i said do not take my word for it create a new character and with no help from your guildies/friends just see how far you can go without asking for help

And what I started here knowing everyone? No, I started here just like most everyone else starts now, knowing no one and not having any leg up. Again, if you are talking about a solo person then yes, they will get stuck in time. It clearly indicates it is a raid zone so you have to bring more than one toon with you. If you are staying that it is not able to be done with 3 or 4 toons, then you just need to change your strat/choice of characters.

My point is that when new players enter there are not many other new players to group with. Most you see are some one elses alt being ran through these zones. So they see alot of rotting corpses and these are what they use to equip themselves with while progressing. Finding 4 new players to hit qvic with is extremely rare. but seeing groups of people slaughtering the zone for gear letting tokens rott is alot more common.