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[Balthor2]

Please for the love of jebus and all that is holy, do not update ez server to emu project again.
What do we really gain by staying current with the project?
The last few months we have seen very marginal forward progress via keeping updated with the main trunk but we have seen a lot of negatives.
Classes are nerfed, not intended but it happened and nothing to date has reversed it.
Players are more unhappy then happy.
This could be a much larger post but seriously it just boils down to opinion and my opinion is this:
-Updating EZ server which strives to be a unique custom eqemu server to a code which attempts to mimic eq live servers is counter productive-

[lerxst2112]

I agree the proc changes are unfortunate, especially since proc damage so outweighs actual weapon damage here, but there are some things we have now that we would not have without the updates.

Plane of Fire no longer crashes.
Items with more than 127% haste actually work.
The haste cap can be raised over 100% with a simple rule change.
Underfoot client support.
Fixes for AAs that didn't work.

The problem with updating is that it changes things but there is never a focus on fixing those things that were changed by adjusting proc rates on spells, changing spell types (druid epic), etc.  I would love to see an effort toward fixing bugs balanced with adding new content.  Right now it seems that bugs are mostly ignored unless they make content easier until people stop complaining about them and just learn to live with them.

[Secrets]

Please for the love of jebus and all that is holy, do not update ez server to emu project again.
What do we really gain by staying current with the project?
The last few months we have seen very marginal forward progress via keeping updated with the main trunk but we have seen a lot of negatives.
Classes are nerfed, not intended but it happened and nothing to date has reversed it.
Players are more unhappy then happy.
This could be a much larger post but seriously it just boils down to opinion and my opinion is this:
-Updating EZ server which strives to be a unique custom eqemu server to a code which attempts to mimic eq live servers is counter productive-

Hunter isn't a coder and he does not want to be dependant on me for his custom code. Since he doesn't have the time to manage the codebase, we use the EQEmu SVN.

Just look at THF's code if you want an example on why you shouldn't break off from the main project with coders with little time.

[Otaduke]

Any chance the druid click stick and pally proc will be revisited?

[Balthor2]

Thats very true secrets, I was only posting up my opinion which falls along the lines of "if we get a stable source point where nothing is considered broken by the players and Hunter and we do not forsee the need for new commands" why not stop updating at that point.

As we all know Hunter has limited time to do stuff on the server and rare is it that he has support personal working with him. So instead of updating with the main svn every month or so as of late, and having several items break which spins the population into an uproar. Just stick with what works.
Esp dont see a point in updating when majority of the fixes resolve around live like content, bots and only provide this server with access to like #googleit

Im not saying the previous updates were all bad and stuff, we have access to stuff that we wanted. Do we really forsee the need for more stuff? Yes we can use seeds client here but we dont use any of the zones or graphics and SoF worked already. Marginal forward progress compared to the steps back.

[L0stman]

Perhaps a middle ground?

1.  The far extreme of never taking source from eqemu again should be noted as likely flawed. 
2.  The far extreme of taking source from eqemu at every available opportunity, for no other reason than it is there, may cause stability issues in the community for no real perceived value.

Why not, instead, consider on a weekly basis whether or not a source update should occur?

Ask "Looking at the items changed / fixed, are these fixes / updates worth potential instability?"

If this is a big fix that would make the server healthier (less zone crashes, less server exe crashes, large AA fixes, new functionality that would be helpful) then taking the source is likely going to be healthier for the server than not taking it.

If this is quite a few fixes to things that do not matter on this server (bots, etc) then it may be healthier for the server to not take it.

Would require someone to view the change log for eqemu on a normal basis to see when something worth instability is posted.

An example of why turning off all source updates would be bad:  see http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=32680 - a potential fix that if imported into eqemu main trunk would possibly stop any chance of losing an item due to augmentation.

An example of why patching every single update may be bad:  consider the issues that have arisen during the last week or two.

Honestly, its still up to Hunter which way he goes but I don't think either extreme is the proper path.

[lerxst2112]

The longer you wait between updates the more stuff is broken when the update is done, and it's much easier to fix a couple things at a time than it is a dozen.  When there are many changes it's sometimes very hard to narrow down what broke something meaning it's less likely to get fixed.

I don't think there's an easy solution.  Either more time needs to be spent fixing things whether or not the source is updated, or we just need to get used to things being broken and unpredictable.

[Balthor2]

We already are use to broken and unpredictable. Once in awhile things get solid for us and then along comes another update.
Things get broken again.
Basically you have a valid point, staying up to date is generally the best idea but with the limited time Hunter has, the limited support Hunter has and the fact that this server is custom with a mindset nothing like eq live. Updating source is generally more of a pain in the ass then its worth.

I love some of the stuff we have gotten in the last 5 or 6 months but also take a look at some of the issues. /em laughs at ranger

[Secrets]

Thats very true secrets, I was only posting up my opinion which falls along the lines of "if we get a stable source point where nothing is considered broken by the players and Hunter and we do not forsee the need for new commands" why not stop updating at that point.

As we all know Hunter has limited time to do stuff on the server and rare is it that he has support personal working with him. So instead of updating with the main svn every month or so as of late, and having several items break which spins the population into an uproar. Just stick with what works.
Esp dont see a point in updating when majority of the fixes resolve around live like content, bots and only provide this server with access to like #googleit

Im not saying the previous updates were all bad and stuff, we have access to stuff that we wanted. Do we really forsee the need for more stuff? Yes we can use seeds client here but we dont use any of the zones or graphics and SoF worked already. Marginal forward progress compared to the steps back.

There's been a few security fixes in addition to the things that add color. Most noteably, the tradeskill dupe fix that trevius put in. If he had not put that in and updated, we'd have over 11 billion plat still in the economy and more to come. I had a fix, but what if that diff gets messed up and we need to update because a security fix happens again and Hunter can't update because it was related? See this is where it gets complicated.

Not to mention the zone crash fixes, the stuff for the Underfoot client (since SoD is no longer legally obtainable) that made it fixed, and to be honest the changes that do get made are easily fixed by people with time to investigate them. I fixed the ranger damage for example and am going to work on fixing the rest of the things that are broken. Right now I think the brawler's charm works but is only useable for classes that have weapons with 1HB skill so I am going to try and fix that, as well as the ultimate charm effect is broken, very possibly anyway.

[Balthor2]

Hey can you add +85% duration to UC..

As for the source stuff I've posted my point of view. Its just that a point of view.

[Fugitive]

Balthor's Idea is just bad that's the reason we should ignore him.

Grape

[Balthor2]

hahaha you dirty basta

[Fugitive]

Honestly,
The idea of finding where EZ wants to be and could be both sides seem to have valid points. To me it seems as he EMU moves in a whole moves one direction it appears to be the opposite of "the apparent" vision of what direction EZ is heading.

I know a lot of good stuff has been fixed, but due to the custom content here in EZ a lot encounters get really out of whack, when source gets updated without giving a twice over to see how and what it will help and fix on EZ.

 I know this is a work in progress the EB(ever beta). It's hard to come to a standstill on some of the source changes. That's all I'm saying maybe find a way to give it a look over....so the standstills of discouragement have a min. duration.

[Gnaughty]

WTB proper testing on a test server.

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