Caster DPS issues potential fix

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[Destined]

So I got to thinking, casters don't have their own special augments. Dual-wielding classes and 2hander classes both get special augments to help out DPS, but casters don't. Well, I thought up an idea that could fix the problem casters have, increasing their DPS, AND further balance the economy. I searched around but didn't see this idea yet, but: Why don't we just make weapon augments that have mana regen on them and make them tiered like the Firestrike/Icestrike augs? Three of them would fit in a weapon, and the tiers can go like this perhaps:

Tier1: 100 mana regen
Tier 2: 200 mana regen
Tier 3: 300 mana regen
Tier 4: 1000 mana regen
Tier 5: 2000 mana regen

Maybe tier 4 and 5 could be bumped to 1500/3000 or something else that Hunter found balanced, but this could be a good way to make Casters much more balanced DPS-wise and up near or above paly/sks where they should be. The prices can be the same as the Firestrike/Icestrikes too, so the economy will get plat pulled out for the augs and essences used more as well.

[Fabdibikya]

Congratulations. You have made possibly the most useless augs, save for endurance regen augs.

This will do absolutely nothing for DPS of casters except for wizards, and for wizards it would totally imbalance them and get them nerfed even more.

Sweet.

-Clev

[Drezden]

 There really is only one dps caster, far as mana would be concerned, Wizards. The other casters are pet classes and utility. This would greatly help wizards tho. I mean if the other casters get huge nukes with ungodly mana cost, then yea it would help them also.

 But Hate has something in the works that would go well with this.

 I wait till he unveils his master plan! 

[Destined]

I've played a Necro and a Mage as well as noticed how rough it is on wizards, and I can safely say that all three classes using their t3/t4 nuke spells go out of mana fairly quickly. I haven't really seen any of the ideas to improve overall Caster DPS hit it off with Hunter. Mana Regen augs wouldn't make casters up to the point where they should be (besides wizards) but it'd at least be a start. Even with 3 2k mana regen augs you'd be pulling over 7000 mana regen while casting/standing/whatever, which is not too shabby. It frees up the rest of the equip slots for mana augs or more mana regen if that's your fancy. Enchanters aren't meant to be DPS classes in the first place, so that's an entirely different animal altogether. I suppose we'll have to see if the damage of Necro/Mage spells is going to get re-worked and Wizards re-worked to be viable DPS, but I don't see a universal way to do it without breaking at least one caster class.

[Fabdibikya]

I'm wise of Hateborne's ideas, and I'm going to add a few of my own.

Rest assured, there are plenty of good ideas out there for caster augs, but a straight out mana regen... Don't put on an aug what you can already find as augs for armour in PoD/HoH - it would make more sense to boost those than to create an entire weapon aug just for that and claim that might fix the caster DPS issue - it's a lot more complicated than that.

Also, claiming that enchanters arent a DPS class is like saying paladins arent main healers. What you assume is class definition doesnt always hold true in EZ, and ultimately it's Hunter's and Basher's call.

(Also, enchanters already are a dps class - a group without VT and epic haste does a ton less dps than with, so you have to count that in the enchanter's DPS).

[Drezden]

Also, claiming that enchanters arent a DPS class is like saying paladins arent main healers. What you assume is class definition doesnt always hold true in EZ, and ultimately it's Hunter's and Basher's call.

very true

(Also, enchanters already are a dps class - a group without VT and epic haste does a ton less dps than with, so you have to count that in the enchanter's DPS).

Thats a buff bot lol.

 But I agree this is EZ and it would be cool to make them viable,but by definition enchanters arent dps,so it would take some reworking since their main focus are gone here(mess/slow/charm). So basically you would come out with another mage/necro..a nuking pet class. What else could be done? I mean buff up pet/dopps, give em descent nukes..ie mage/necro clone.

[Fabdibikya]

Beastlord = pet + melee
Necro = lifetapping pet + dots
Mage = pet + nuke
Enchanter = multiple doppelganger pets + utility buffs

They're all pet classes, it's just the way the pets are implemented that is different, and what you can do alongside the pet is different.

Saying that they'll be mag/nec clone is like saying SK's are a Pal clone - they both put on auto attack and get healed from their proc while doing dps, preferably with augs and UC/sorc.

[Soakked]

How about chanters having the ability to boost potency of other caster class spells/pets etc, in addition to their ability of increasing melee damage (haste). That would give them more utility.

[Drezden]

/sigh

 We were talking casters right? The title is about caster dps right? Cloth wearing casters..so drop the beastlord from the mix,what are you left with haha. Spell casting pet users.

 What you do along side them eh.. you sick em on a mob and cast spells be it dots or nukes,sure you might toss a heal on em or cast a swarm/dopp..but it still basically the same format.

 You basically want a total class revamp, which will never happen imo. So the best that could be hoped for is something close to what a mage/necro can do.

 I mean you even defined enchanters as pet/utility lol..which you tried to bash me about "class definition on EZ" . If you want to argue thats fine,but try a lil harder.

 Its like a monkey scratching his ass then smelling his finger..

[Destined]

I would like to take the time to point out that I did say that this was a POTENTIAL fix, I in no way figured this would just instantly fix things. However, there isn't really a way to make ALL the casters benefit with augs in any way other than just giving them monstrous proc augments to melee with. Even then, Wizards will still be more DPS than Mages, Mages more than Necros, Necros more than Chanters. I'm talking pure DPS, not adjusted DPS. Enchanters are and were always intended to be a buff class. Maybe if Hunter incorporated the need for CC in the game we could give them the title they were intended to have from the onset of the game, but they just simply are not supposed to be even on DPS as a Necro, Mage, or Wizard. It's just not how the class was designed. The EZServer staff is trying to give people reason enough to play classes as it is, and there are very good reasons to play Enchanters. Right now, Necromancers are -THE- most useless caster.

Back to the point though, the only way to give a blanket improvement to casters in general is to give them either Mana Regen or more Mana. Each classes' t3/t4 spells are imbalanced damage-wise, so a damage buff on the epics isn't going to work. Maybe Hunter could think about adding a 2nd epic (shield) for mages, necros, and enchanters to give them specific boosts that bring their DPS up closer to wizards. However, wizards, mages, necros, and enchanters should never do an equal amount of DPS, ever. Wizards SHOULD be on top, followed by Mages and Necros, then enchanters. You're supposed to (key words: supposed, palys and SKs completely laugh at this idea right now) be able to sacrifice utility for DPS. Enchanters have high utility with their buffs and now a solid pet. Mages have a decent nuke and a strong pet. Necros have a good pet and nothing else (dots are absolutely useless, the t4 spell is a lifetap that deals very low damage) but I'm looking to get a start in the right direction here. I don't think mana regen is going to solve all the problems, but it'll at least be a good stepping stone.

[Xiggie | Stone]

How about the following.

Caster Blaster I = Extra insta cast no mana.
Caster Blaster II = 2 extra insta casts no mana.
Caster Blaster III = 3 extra insta casts no mana
Caster Blaster IV = 4 extra insta casts no mana
Caster Blaster V = 5 extra insta casts no mana

To clarify further: On a mage you would cast bolt of jerikor(sp). Now normally this would land once. If you have the version I you would cast that same spell for the same amount of mana but it would last twice therefore doubling mana. I cant remember the mana costs

[Fabdibikya]

What about druids, shamans and clerics? They're not cloth, but they're still gimp and could probably use some aug loving too.

Also, the description I gave of enchanters is the role I feel enchanters have been given on EZ based on personal experience maining a chanter. It isn't "OMG chanters should not do DPS because they didnt on live". It was also a description of what the classes currently had available, not which role they should have. I'm perfectly fine with Hunter completely removing lifetaps and making necro's in some sort of Jester type with laughter spells that incapacitate. People will go "Wtf", but that's their issue, not Hunter's.

[Drezden]

 Twin cast could be used along the line somewhere too, its working with new source. A chance for a 2 for 1 nuke.

 Once again for the vision impaired the topic here is CASTER DPS....not healer/utility or melee.

[Destined]

Druids, Shamans, and Clerics' problems won't be fixed by anything Casters would receive. Even my suggestion on caster augs wouldn't do much for them. It certainly would be fairly simple to add them into the list of classes able to use the augs, but their roles on EZ aren't DPS. Buffer, buffer, healer. The way to fix their problem has nothing to do with their mana in the first place; they need entirely new spells or a huge beef on what they have to be able to be usable. I'm just coming up with ideas based on what I've noticed with multiple caster classes that are supposed to fit the sustained DPS role. Enchanters fit the adjusted DPS role. Necros, Mages, and Wizards are supposed to be sustained DPS. There's no way to sustain any DPS if they run out of mana after 1 or 2 casts, like 7 in necro's cases because their spell is very low damage.

[Fabdibikya]

Right.

So we act under the more strict definition of caster as being pure int casters, not as pure int or wis casters or even the broad definition of "anyone with a manabar".

Also, I agree - those classes need a complete overhaul if they would become anything but offline buff whores. Clerics are slightly useful for MCP fights, but not to the extent that you can't do MCP without them, but their role as main healer is (currently) overshadowed by pally procs.

I have no idea on mana requirements of other casters post t2, but I know all of enchanter's t3/t4 spells are very mana reasonable (except, of course, the manafeed spell, which costs 15k mana and feeds 10k), but that's even moderately chainable by using manastone in between casts. Those mana regen augs will be useless for anything pre-t3 however, as it's almost impossible to run out of mana in even full qvic gear casting your regular spells.

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