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Author Topic: Paladin 1hs + Shield vs 2hs Parse details inside.  (Read 11329 times)
Xiggie | Stone
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« on: January 01, 2012, 07:24:41 pm »
Ok it is time for me to eat my own words. I was wrong about paladins and shields being useless. Not only was I wrong, but I was wrong even more than I thought I was. I was right about AC, there is a soft cap on ac and because of that there is no difference when adding a shield. Your average hit taken is the same. However, looking over the data I found that in fact over all you are taking less damage with a shield than with 2hs. And it is not some cute immeasurable amount either. With a 2hs your damage taken per second, (dtps) is 5831.88, with a 1hs and a shield it is 5188.1. That is an 11.04% difference or 643 dtps. Over a 5 minute fight that is 192.9k difference.

It does not end there though. As expected melee dps is higher with a 2hs than a 1hs. 5.6% higher. However, total damage, (including procs) puts 1hs and shield 7.9% higher than with 2hs. And yes, that does mean that there is 13.5% higher proc damage with a 1hs and shield than 2hs. That means more heals too.

So all you pally's with a shield rejoice. I for one am switching from 2hs to 1hs with a shield. Even with the 11.5k reduction in hp it is worth it.
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Fugitive
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« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2012, 07:29:26 pm »
I'm lazy mine are staying 2h
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« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2012, 07:36:25 pm »
I was wondering about it, have been useing 1hs / shield and been doing good, so will stay this way...8-)
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barrettd04
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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2012, 11:20:58 am »
Ok I'm looking at your numbers, and I still have some questions.

You say there is a 13.5% increase to proc damage when using a 1h/shield.  Where'd you get that number from?  And why would that be?  Is there some AA or disc that makes that so?  Did you mean % increase to proc *rates*, as in the chance to proc? 

And why is the 1h/shield more total damage(melee + procs)?  aa's? discs? 

Sorry for all the questions, just most of what you put doesn't make sense to me.
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« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2012, 01:10:41 pm »
When he said higher proc damage, I'd almost bet he meant higher proc rate. I'm not sure why this would be, either, especially since knights have the 2h AA to make them swing more and what not... But if he parsed it out or whatever, numbers don't lie.
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Xiggie | Stone
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« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2012, 10:41:28 pm »
Somehow my math got wonky. Guess I should not have been figuring this up and playing swtor at the same time, lol. Procs come out to about 9.6% higher due to increase in procing. As you can see from the pic below max proc is the same amount but apparently you are procing more with 1hs. I know it does not make sense because you are supposed to proc more often with 2hs because of aa's but there it is in black and white. Keep in mind that the totals are going to be a bit scewed because the fights were not exactly the same amount of time. The 1hs fight was 1151 seconds and the 2hs fight was 1261 seconds. Even right there, that is 110 seconds, just shy of 2 minutes difference in fight. Being as these fights were about 20 minutes each I would say the rng difference would be minimal. I attached my parse log for those who wish to look it over. If you pull the parse log up the fights you are looking for are on line 8 and 16. I had Xiggie there to take care of adds and he reposted a few times on the 1hs fight but it totaled out to be 7 hits for a grand total of .02% of the damage. That is not enough to even count.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 10:44:41 pm by Xiggie » Logged
Felony
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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2012, 07:51:35 am »
actually 2min could mean a lot even on a 20min parse, if it was something like 60min parse then it wouldnt mean all that much.
Kind of surprised at the funky 2hs but then again on every other emu server my paladins have always used 1hs.
Im just not going to give up the HP here for marginal DPS gain.
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Ogah
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« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2012, 09:48:05 am »
How is giving up 2hs also giving up hps?

I would figure you have more hps with weapon AND shield - you can aug the shield and the stats are the same on weapon - (assuming things stay the same after 4.0 for PAL).
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Kwai
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« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2012, 10:10:23 am »
Quote
How is giving up 2hs also giving up hps?

Not on line atm so going off memory... please forgive me if it's slightly wrong...

4.0 2H is 25000 HP
4.0 1H is 12500 HP
T5 Shield is 8500 HP (w/2 HP augs)

In T3+ 4K HP isn't much.

One thing that did surprise me tho...

4.0 2H Attk/Bonus DMG 195/43
4.0 1H Attk/Bonus DMG 190/15 (or/16... don't remember exactly)
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Xiggie | Stone
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« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2012, 01:19:43 pm »
5.0 is 25k hp for 1hs and 50k for 2hs. Shield is 8.5k with augs. So that comes out to about 11.5k loss with a sword and board. Lets not forget there was also an 11% reduction in dtps while using a shield. I am not able to measure how much healing is done by procs but since the increase in dps came from procs I am guessing there would be an approximately 9.6% increase in heals too. This isn't something that is going to make or break the game but with people running around with 2 or more paladins it can add up quite a bit.
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Felony
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« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2012, 08:24:44 pm »
Quote from: Ogah on January 03, 2012, 09:48:05 am
How is giving up 2hs also giving up hps?

I would figure you have more hps with weapon AND shield - you can aug the shield and the stats are the same on weapon - (assuming things stay the same after 4.0 for PAL).

2hs hp > 1hs hp
Seems pretty obvious + the hassle of moving augs around. Screw that.
To each their own.
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Xiggie | Stone
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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2012, 08:08:36 pm »
Someone asked about the difference between 1hs proc heals and 2hs proc heals. There currently is no way using gamparse to measure proc heals that I am aware of. I am guessing that since the increase in damage comes directly from increase frequency of procs then proc heals would also be increased by the same amount, but that is just an educated guess.
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Gannicus
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« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2012, 01:41:51 am »
Quote from: Xiggie on January 09, 2012, 08:08:36 pm
Someone asked about the difference between 1hs proc heals and 2hs proc heals. There currently is no way using gamparse to measure proc heals that I am aware of. I am guessing that since the increase in damage comes directly from increase frequency of procs then proc heals would also be increased by the same amount, but that is just an educated guess.

I have mq2 -- and actually one thing I need to do is show what I had found, and that was, While the 1hs procd more, the 2hs Exceptional Healed quite a bit more.
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Xiggie | Stone
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« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2012, 01:51:26 am »
How is mq2 showing that you exceptional heal more?
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Gannicus
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« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2012, 02:02:05 am »
Healing Chart on Gamparse broken down
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