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[Nullyn Void]

AC has a soft cap. You are not gaining any AC.

That statement means nothing unless you say at what value the soft cap begins. How quickly do the returns diminish beyond that soft cap?

I see people talking about this soft cap on AC all the time but not once have I seen anyone mention what the cap actually is. Maybe your forum search capabilities are greater than mine.

To go into this slightly further, there is an ac SOFT cap, not a hard cap, and because of this ac is, was, and always will have SOME affect. For those who do not know exactly what ac does, you can check part 4 of http://samanna.net/gen.info/effects.shtml#4 for a brief explanation and chart showing the effects of ac before and after the soft cap.

While I agree with Xiggie that ac after the soft cap isn't as important as the ac gained before it, that is where my agreement ends. AC lowers the possibility for a mob to hit for its max DI value, while it doesn't remove the chance to be hit for max completely, because from what I've read over the years through various parses it seems there is always a chance to get hit for max, all AC goes towards lowering your chance of being hit for the upper DI values.

With the damage the monsters on this server do, depending on how high their DI values are set, the fact that we are over the soft cap on ac could be irrelevant because with current ac values, and how high DI values potentially could be to create the amount of damage mobs do on this server, it is possible that ac could be much more valuable than HP at the current stage of the game just because of the huge variation between hp and ac rates.

[Felony]

If hunter raised AC on gear more then 5 pts per tier you would see a rather large difference in how often you get one rounded.
Its been awhile since I tiered up a plate class but I remember in the past how several tiers of gear only gained HP and not ac. I cant recall why Hunter said he didnt raise AC but its what it is.

[Xiggie | Stone]

I don't know the exact number but ac soft cap is met somewhere around Tacvi. As far as how effective ac is after the soft cap is debatable. I have seen information that says there is no return, and information that says as much as 45% return. What I do know tho is that it is pretty easy to see that 30%+ damage mitigation is much better than 11% shielding and 170ac, soft cap or not. That is not even to mention the HP. It seems pretty much a no brainer to me.

[Hunter]

Shielding does have a cap, would have to look at the value in the rules table.

Didn't realize that AC still helped beyond the soft cap. Probably why I stopped adding AC for last few tiers. I can always revamp the last few tiers of armor to add a bit more AC each time. Was just lazy that I didn't add it anyways for polish even though I thought it had no effect.

This server is a never ending project that I really love and wish I had even more time to devote too. I'm sure it'll be here for a long time. The server is not at the end, its just beginning and I'm just warming up on my development of it. 

[Solbash]

Not sure how much you would have to up it, i use a shield on my pally for tanking, and i don't see much of, if any at all of a difference in how hard i get hit. I just like the fact of gaining that chance to block that 120k hit, instead of the other 20k hp i'd have. Fully buffed in full T6, with 5.5 and VZIII shield i get close to 5100 ac.

[Griz]

Shielding doesn't even really do anything on this server, because it only affects Damage Bonus, and almost every mob has a damage bonus of single or double digits (hence getting kicked by T2 bosses for 40 damage)

If things had a high damage bonus but lower interval, Shielding would be useful but the benefit of things like stonewall would be less useful. Basically it'd be a knight tanking buff in every tier up until T3-4ish, which is when they overtake warriors.

[Thebone]

Isn't this the Warrior Epic topic, not the Abyss topic?

Hunter you know we can derail in a matter of seconds =P it why you love us so much.

[Drep]

Shielding does have a cap, would have to look at the value in the rules table.

Didn't realize that AC still helped beyond the soft cap. Probably why I stopped adding AC for last few tiers. I can always revamp the last few tiers of armor to add a bit more AC each time.

From everything I have always read, Shielding does in fact have a hard cap which is reached easily.   AC does in fact still help beyond the soft cap...but not near enough for the types of damage people are experiencing in T5/T6.  30% damage reduction is far and away better than a shield and the 1h.    You would have to add shit loads (I mean shit loads!) of AC in order for it to be comparable because of the diminishing returns.   AC isn't going to cut it in this situation.  T5/T6 needs pure damage mitigation instead of the amount of AC you would need to do the same thing.    But i'm all for more AC also just because I like watching all the numbers (which really don't do much anymore)  go up after an upgrade        If this was live, I would probably back track on all this because I think adding 30% or more extra mitigation than what you already have would make it easy mode.   However, on this server, the sheer amount of riposte damage that is occurring needs some pure mitigation.   I think the slow 2h with all that mitigation is an awesome start!

[Fugitive]

The new warrior epics are just plain and simple a great Fix!! Riposte are down, damage reduction in, happiness up.



TY!!

[Felony]

I don't know the exact number but ac soft cap is met somewhere around Tacvi. As far as how effective ac is after the soft cap is debatable. I have seen information that says there is no return, and information that says as much as 45% return. What I do know tho is that it is pretty easy to see that 30%+ damage mitigation is much better than 11% shielding and 170ac, soft cap or not. That is not even to mention the HP. It seems pretty much a no brainer to me.

Now every EMU is unique in its own way but I tell you sir that AC matters a lot.
If any of you play/played on TheHiddenForest you'll know what I'm talking about.
My warrior at his best had 12k ac raid buffed and would eat some mean combat rounds then I donored up a paladin cause I could and at something close to 30k ac raid buffed I take so much less dmg on average its game changing.
Now on EZ I am not sure how big it would be but more AC on plate gear would make some classes happy.
Like the shadowknights, as much as i hate that class, they have no stonewall unlike the other two tanks but pretty sweet lifetaps for their epic. If they had more ac it wouldnt equal stonewall but it would show an effective reduction in average damage taken per combat round.

Hunter, thanks for the response on the AC. Not sure its a major issue as we've lived with it till now but it would make the tiered gear 4/5/6 mean a hell of a lot more then just "I've reached 400k / 500k hp"

[stales]

Warrior has AA under Omens Shield Block which grants you the chance to fully block an attack when using a shield FYI

[Lucadian]

Warrior has AA under Omens Shield Block which grants you the chance to fully block an attack when using a shield FYI

Mentioned this and was told it doesn't work like it does for Knights and like it does on EQ live.. Not sure why it doesn't or what the problem is.... That is just what I was informed when the whole "Warriors die too easy." conversation was going on.

[Duluum]

hi

this is what i heard about AC softcap :

- each class has its own softcap,
- only a percentage of AC beyond softcap is added, each class having its own percentage,
- shield AC is added (un-modified) to softcap.

but i'm not an expert, i didn't make any parse, and it was on another server.

hope this may help, otherwise nevermind

Zavaat

[lerxst2112]

The defaults are:

Code:

RULE_INT ( Combat, ClothACSoftcap, 75)
RULE_INT ( Combat, LeatherACSoftcap, 100)
RULE_INT ( Combat, MonkACSoftcap, 120)
RULE_INT ( Combat, ChainACSoftcap, 200)
RULE_INT ( Combat, PlateACSoftcap, 300)
RULE_REAL ( Combat, AAMitigationACFactor, 3.0)
RULE_REAL ( Combat, WarriorACSoftcapReturn, 0.45)
RULE_REAL ( Combat, KnightACSoftcapReturn, 0.33)
RULE_REAL ( Combat, LowPlateChainACSoftcapReturn, 0.23)
RULE_REAL ( Combat, LowChainLeatherACSoftcapReturn, 0.17)
RULE_REAL ( Combat, CasterACSoftcapReturn, 0.06)
RULE_REAL ( Combat, MiscACSoftcapReturn, 0.3)

I won't attempt to explain how they are used in the actual mitigation formula, but this will basically tell you where the diminishing returns set in.

[Xiggie | Stone]

Ok how about this. Take everything that is being supposed that works for the shield, the chance to block, the ac, (full ac not reduced) and the shielding. If shielding and the chance to block are the same thing fuck it, lets pretend they are two different things and they stack. Now multiply it all times 1.5 so that you get 150% of the benefit. Now compare that to 31% to 51% damage reduction. The 2 hand wins easily. That is not even taking into consideration the boost in hp. The 2h has a better chance to stop you from being one rounded.

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