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[Saphien]

I'm going back and through now and finishing out my 12man group. I currently run with 9 and I'm going up to 12 and if I'm going to put a lot of effort into more characters, I want to make sure I've got a good setup going. I also need some advice/healing help.

Current setup:

Warrior
Monk
Zerker
Bard
Paladin
Cleric
Shaman
Necro
Mage



I've found DPS was lacking a lot when moving into T6 content so I've been maxing out Charms to get my DPS to at least Sorc 41 and my strike augs up.

For my last three spots, I was thinking Enchanter, Druid, and a second Zerker for the AoE dmg. Then I could mix and match the above 12 in various single groups or run them as two.

Anything appear to be grossly misaligned or missing here? I find that when running two groups and I have to separate my cleric and paladin, it leaves my tank a lot more vulnerable and he dies more.  I was thinking of having a second Paladin instead but I didn't want to lose another spot to a healer and I'd rather it be a stronger DPS than pally or a buff class.

Also trying to figure out who goes where for the two group setup. Which classes compliment the others better. Should I split the pet classes up? Is it better for the bard to be with pet classes or DPS if I group them together?

[Brokyn]

I would not go with another Zerker.  You're almost done with places where you can do AE damage effectively for progression.  A lot of people get by ok without a second warrior, but I would suggest an off tank, or secondary tank.

So, in your situation, I would probably go with a War, Druid, Ench as the next 3.

The MAJOR thing that stands out for me is you saying you are in T6 with toons that don't have lvl 41 charms...  By now, you should be thinking about UC and UC2 on every single toon.  Then max out strike augs to increase DPS.

2 cents, for free

[Rent Due]

Warrior
Monk
Zerker
Bard
Paladin
Cleric
Shaman
Necro
Mage

if you are looking to increase the DPS and be solid for T7/T8 you may want to consider switching out the necro for a rogue and the mage for another Paladin. Then, you can add a druid, ench and bard so that you would end up looking like:

Warrior
Paladin
Shaman
Bard
Cleric
Monk

and

Zerker
Rogue
Druid
Bard
Enchanter
Paladin

this would maximize your healing in Tank group, give you 2 healers in 2nd group, with a bard in both groups for both added dps and song support. It would also allow you the ability to single target coth around the zones.

I am not a huge fan of pet classes as positioning becomes a huge factor, which leads to a lot of recasting pets if you kill them on rage, etc.

[Walls]

The more toons with NS the better

[balidet]

this is my favorite topic...what is the best group for XXX tier!?!

I run a 12 man that looks like this;

Warrior (of course)(UW2)(UC1)
Cleric (of course)(UC1)
Druid(yea Skin3 is well..awesome for pulling 20+ mobs in t6)(UC1)
Paladin(love them spot heals)(2hander)(UC1)
Ranger(NS dps FTW)(magnetic dirk)
Wizzy(make this go boom)(Mana Neck V)
 
second group is
Zerk (AOE)
Zerk (even more AOE)
Monk (NS goodness)
Rogue (more NS goodness)(Magnetic Dirk)
Cleric (OK..not thrilled....not sure i need a cleric to heal..)(UC1)
Bard (makes everything better)(Magnetic Dirk)

ALL healers and warrior are UC1 ...the rest are getting close...warrior is almost done with UC2...
I need to backfill some of the ICE augs and FIRE augs I am missing but all NInja's are VIII....

takes me about 4-5 hours per run in t6

I may drop the second zerk for a enchanter since I understand they are awesome...not 100%...and maybe second cleric for another healer that can do more that just heal...

Interesting thing is when my main tank goes down..its my monk that tends to be the offtank that keeps me from getting totally wasted... the paladin just cant seem to stay up.. I guess not getting hit is better than healing yourself....

I am mainly working on T6 for UC2 for warrior then my plan is to gear up the rest of the group and flag them for t7 with 6.0s all the way around...then head back into TOFS floor5 and farm up the remainder of the UC's I need and get resists up to 1600 on the rest of my toons (main tank is 2300+)... and then farm essence to fill in all the aug holes I have....before heading into T7....

I have not done SOA at all and don't really feel I need one yet (Main tank almost never dies and when he manages to die its normally due to LAG or a mistake I have made) this may all change once I enter Tier7 but for now...

Am I smoking crack?

[Walls]

I just have my enchanter follow out of group. As long as you have resists up to par he should be okay.

[Saphien]

This idea of a second warrior for offtank is interesting. Without UW, doesn't that make a second tank hard to contribute as much as another class would?

Or does he take off enough damage from rampage or whatever from the main tank that it makes up for it?

[Chunka]

Dump the necro, keep the mage. Make sure you get the best mana neck you can for the mage (or dont bother with the mage). Make sure you set up a key to keep IA3 on warrior. Add a chanter and a druid for sure.....druid is arguably the best healer around, and enchanter is the best (by FAR) force multiplier in the game after MQ2. I'd take a ranger over a rogue all day long. DPS on a ranger now is at least as good as a rogues, and once bow click is working right I think ranger will be best melee dps.

So that'd make the groups:

Warrior
Monk
Zerker
Bard
Paladin
Cleric
Shaman
Mage
Druid
Ench
Ranger

For the last spot.....I like wizard. Damned good dps, and relatively cheap....and AE dps is second only to zerk. But again, get mana neck for wiz.

I'd arrange em this way:

Warrior
Paladin
Bard
Mage
Sham
Ench

Monk
Zerker
Cleric
Druid
Ranger
Wiz

Can set up pally as emergency offtank if needed...and a UC2 pally with even just a UC1 sham is plenty to keep a warrior standing....especially with druid in G2 set to keep regen and Drake on warrior. I put shammy in G1 with the warrior assuming War is UW, because grudge rocks with a UW! Though grudge is also quite nice on mage/sham/ench pets. Bard is in G1 to keep stampede on the tank, and to keep TB3 on pets (where its most effective). Cleric and druid in G2 is plenty to keep G2 from dying to AE or random shift damage.

At least thats how I'd do it.

[Saphien]

What do you favor about a mage pet class over the necro?

[Dinadas]

Mage gets DS which is noticable DPS increase, and nukes are more effective then dots the way the game is currently balanced.

Re: Bailet we run almost the same group, my warrior has higher UW and I have an enchanter and mage where you have some melee.

My t6 clears were about 2.5 hours before I UC2'd my zerker.  That can be the impact of the enchanter,  Now down to ~80minutes with 4 UC2's(only 1 on zerker)

And I don't even have as many NS 8's as you.  Enchanter makes that much of a difference.

[Saphien]

Do you find automation on a caster hard?

For example, on the mage would you Twist their neck clickie and then DD? or some iteration in between? DD, DD, DD, neck clickie, etc...?

[Dinadas]

Right now I have all major forms of DPS on keypress 1 for all my toons

Zerker Epic, Ranger Bow, Caster Nukes, monk PS, yaulp for pallies.

I would probably make a 2nd hotkey for keypress 2, no mana necks yet for me.

Put mana neck on their for casters, maybe zerker PS, non mana neck folks the CG Canni item.

So not terribly difficult.

[gagem]

My t6 clears were about 2.5 hours before I UC2'd my zerker.  That can be the impact of the enchanter,  Now down to ~80minutes with 4 UC2's(only 1 on zerker)

And I don't even have as many NS 8's as you.  Enchanter makes that much of a difference.

What spells / tactics are you using with the Enchanter that makes up that much time in a clear?

[Dinadas]

In General,
Skin of Drake 3 on warrior

Pull first pull is about halfway past first boss, if i go to edge of pit i need to use EZ reward heal clicky on the way back.

I do have the run speed clicky.

Drake upon return, target first boss, GoA zerker mow down mobs. 

In General, GoA every other pull, enchanter in group so i can see when it goes off and click it until it does.

Specific pulling stops. Always target boss and let zerkers widdle down adds, spam warrior aggro clicky.

Cerebus and his pit, non GoA typically down.

Everything but 2 bosses in next room, GoA.

Both bosses same time, non GoA.  Entire hallway up to grenlok, GoA.

Grenlok, no GoA.

Grenlok room + bottom of stairs, GoA

stairs plus top of arena, and lefthand hallway, no GoA

first Tan boss plus about 10 mobs, GoA

2nd Tan boss and remaining mobs on top of ring at same time

3rd tan boss, drop down run out other door grab anything remaining, GoA

From there, steps to first upstairs pull, GoA(usually up due to having to get keepsake)  Right about here first Defense buffs fading so bout half hour mark.

Move up to top of steps, pull up to Bozak

Rest of hallway after bozak to next steps

Ture, hallway in about 3 pulls, then his room after in 1 pull.

Windy Steps in one pull.

Both straight hallways before next 2 bosses, GoA

Left side, Right side GoA when up.  Steps, all mobs outside the semicircular + Warden

Warden's area, then steps + Arch Magus, then OMM room, OMM done

TLDR
I think I saved a lot of time by adding mobs to Tan pulls.
Use GoA on zerker every time available, skin of drake for heals
Use Grudge on every boss pull with UW.
Keep IA3 up and from enchanter spell quickness + VT

[Dinadas]

I have also dabbled in T7 a bit so warrior on my last run had about 1.3mil hp with UW6 and half t7 gear, and I bought a 7. 0 for the extra defense and have SoA35

GoA + zerker is quite a powerful combo.

The cutdown from 150minutes to 80, came with UC2 on zerker, essentially full time GoA + more burst when GoA is running.

Think I will plateau there or shave minimal time off a run with 2nd UC2'd zerker, due to not being able to pull more at a time.(7 runs til that reality and then  I can offer more feedback)

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