T10 Thoughts/Musings

Dimur

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Re: T10 Thoughts/Musings

« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2015, 05:35:01 pm »

Tell me how many people you see doing relevant content without UW please, and I'll concede that UW shouldn't be a required item for what's supposed to be the end game. You'd have a leg to stand on if people were doing T7+ content without a UW, but even the people who had T7 completed before UW were even implemented have UW's. T10 is supposed to be END GAME, as in culmination of enough time put in and resources burned through to be able to expect to consume the content. I see no reason why it shouldn't be balanced around UW, SoA, RoA etc since everyone has the ability to farm that stuff as they go...it's not like you're asking someone to go back and refarm something they haven't already been working on.

Again, this tier should require more than pooling resources into a single character and letting the support characters gimp by.


« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 05:37:00 pm by Dimur »	Logged

Expletus

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Re: T10 Thoughts/Musings

« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2015, 05:50:30 pm »

t10 is end game. T9 is end game. T8 is end game. Guess what, next year T11 is going to be end game and 12 after that. So it will never end which is why I think the UW chain needs to stop at some point. The more powerful it gets the more people are going to argue that content is not hard enough which then pigeon holes everyone on the server to get an UW because they can't do content without it. That is what we need to avoid. I got no issues with SoA, etc


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Keeze

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Re: T10 Thoughts/Musings

« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2015, 05:55:56 pm »

Quote from: Dimur on January 05, 2015, 05:35:01 pm

I have to agree with Dim on this one. T10 should be a put up or shut up tier. Separate the "players" from the "buyers"

and hey, there is nothing wrong with being a "buyer". I have done it, ive rode coat tails too. But on the other hand I have put in the farming/grinding time. If players like me can do this, then everyone else can too.

Balance the content around all available content questing/gear/items/grinds/farms

Quote from: Darpey on January 05, 2015, 05:15:32 pm

Quote from: Blurring on January 05, 2015, 04:56:52 pm

Not sure what you mean Rent. Limiting instancing doesn't really have anything to do with lower play time. Someone with limited time to play can still beat you to a boss spawn during their play time.

Don't you ever feel like, even as the content changes from tier to tier, that's it's becoming the same grind every time? Everybody heads to their private instance. Someone figures out how to get all the loot, the information disperses, everybody waits for the next tier.

As someone who has played P99 long enough to get to the raid scene, I STRONGLY disagree with removing instances... 90% of why p99 is a bad game is because of lack of instances, IMO... instances good... fighting over rare spawns bad

One word... "poopsock"

HOWEVER, some sort of incentive to encourage cooperation across members of EZ would be neat... not sure how that would look, but forcing boss fights to be public is not the solution, IMO

Blarr, I know what you are saying here brother. I really do. However, I really do not feel that the low play time people are going to be able to reap the rewards from a system like this. NOW, with that said, maybe one of the sub T10 zones could be a contested zone. A contested, public only zone for rare/nice/uber off slot items as a contrast to the private off slot zone (I am still clinging to that separate zone thing) so that there is some friendly/not friendly competition. And label the damn zone "enter at your own risk", anything goes, no bitching about it.

I like the idea of ppl having to work together to accomplish a goal rather than cut each other's throats


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Dimur

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Re: T10 Thoughts/Musings

« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2015, 05:59:18 pm »

There is an endless amount of content that exists on the server for people who don't want to farm UW's to consume, T10 should be tuned around requiring a massive amount of resources to survive. And when T11 comes out, that can easily be carried forward. The only way that T10 should be balanced around not having UW is if they are either outlawed from the zone(s) similar to the PVP zone coding or completely removing UW from the game...if UW is here to stay then it should either be allowed in T10 and T10 appropriately tuned around them or they should just be disallowed from being used in that content.

Just because the zone exists and the content is being consumed by others doesn't mean that everyone should be able to do it without jumping over the same hurdles that everyone else had to.


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Expletus

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Re: T10 Thoughts/Musings

« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2015, 06:13:39 pm »

Im not trying to start a pissing match but this game should be enjoyed by all players regardless of how much time is invested. UW is OPTIONAL and YES if a zone exists it should be enjoyed regardless that you jumped a 50 story building for the other guy took a cab around it.

Edit: There are other ways to keep people from buying equipment and I think those options need to be explored. I don't think content needs a full blown UW adjustment, but if a happy medium was found where someone who doesn't have the max UW on multiple toons can do it, I'd be fine. A full zone requiring UW is just wrong. Sorry just my opinion and I do understand what you are saying.


« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 06:16:40 pm by Expletus »	Logged

Keeze

Expletus

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Re: T10 Thoughts/Musings

« Reply #50 on: January 05, 2015, 06:19:02 pm »

For instance. You could make the armor in a section of a zone that is unlocked by killing boss A. That will give you access to that zone requiring a key flag. Hell even making an entry quest sort of like Rent was saying about a FG/CG which would require you to kill something from previous zones, hit a combine and bang got your entry key. Then your in, Kill boss A opens section A. Can't goto section Z w/out having flags for previous sections which would making the multiple zones come into play. So no buying armor, have to put the time into the zone.


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Keeze

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Re: T10 Thoughts/Musings

« Reply #51 on: January 05, 2015, 06:27:01 pm »

kinda like the journey to Plane of Time.....my favorite zone/quest/progression, truly it was a blast, and I do miss that kind of stepping stone type of play within a tier


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Dimur

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Re: T10 Thoughts/Musings

« Reply #52 on: January 05, 2015, 06:48:29 pm »

Quote from: Expletus on January 05, 2015, 06:13:39 pm

This isn't a pissing match, it's a discussion of differing viewpoints. I'm not trying to thump my chest and demand that you fall in line with my way of thinking, but I'm consistent in my logic and I'm trying to make the suggestions I've made completely clear. To that end, I'll respond this this quote.

This game CAN be enjoyed by all players REGARDLESS of how much time is invested. There are 9 custom tiers of content, none of which are tuned around ANY toons having a UW. 9 tiers to toil away in getting flags, getting epic upgrades, working on strikes, working on aa's and their related gear pieces, accruing plat for crafting, killing trash mobs for drops and bosses for gear...I'd say that regardless of how casual or hardcore you are, it's very easy to log on and find something to do.

UW is OPTIONAL, I completely agree. You know what else is OPTIONAL? Strikes are OPTIONAL, RoA is OPTIONAL, UC and the subsequent variants of UC are OPTIONAL, SoA is OPTIONAL, spells and song upgrades are OPTIONAL...all of the OPTIONAL upgrades become somewhat required upgrades at some point. Why would UW be an exception? And yet it would be difficult to argue that any of the OPTIONAL upgrades outside of the UW trivialize content as much as UW itself does. UW is supposed to be a pain in the ass to attain, it's supposed to be something you work on when you have finished everything else...much in the same way the next tier of custom content is supposed to be what you do after you've nothing else to attain in your current tier.

You are suggesting that the end game, highest custom tier of content should be accessible by everyone and I simply don't agree. Call it elitist or whatever you want, but end game zones are supposed to be END GAME and as such need to be tuned around max gear at some point. The level of end game gear required is debatable to some extent, but arbitrarily saying that someone is entitled to enjoy the end game zone simply because they choose to log on and play is a bit of a stretch.


« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 06:51:11 pm by Dimur »	Logged

Warbash

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Re: T10 Thoughts/Musings

« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2015, 06:57:51 pm »

Quote from: Expletus on January 05, 2015, 06:13:39 pm

Personally I say phase the darn things out.


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Warbash and crew <Ancient Elites>

Darpey

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Re: T10 Thoughts/Musings

« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2015, 06:59:22 pm »

I agree with Expletus to a point...

Possibly T10 should operate under the assumption that a crew has *ONE* high level UW... but forcing multiple UW's is (IMO) crazy...

Plus that forces the timesink into GRINDING Ultimate weapons, instead of "grinding" T10.

The thought of multiple UW's makes me shudder... Even for high end, that seems unnecessary

This post is dedicated to Rymo


« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 07:06:30 pm by Darpey »	Logged

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Kwai

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Re: T10 Thoughts/Musings

« Reply #55 on: January 05, 2015, 07:00:27 pm »

I see where you're coming from Dim, but T10 should be not only accessible, but ultimately winnable for anyone who logs on, pays their dues in the grind of flagging through T9 for T10. Not just the multiple UW11 crowd. Everyone who completes T9 should have that opportunity.


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Expletus

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Re: T10 Thoughts/Musings

« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2015, 07:05:51 pm »

I see what you're saying however at what point do you deserve to be there? When you are maxed everything? What happens when T11 comes out? Should T10 be tuned down? I don't think you should be able to log in and just pick a tier to go into. I think since this is T10, we need a roadblock of sorts, similar to what T5 is. Months to beat and the question is how? How do you achieve that w/out making mobs hit for 1 million with 100 kajillion billion HP's ? I don't think tuning the mobs to a group of UW's is the answer. I think you could get away with tuning for 1 UW warrior and adjust the steps needed to win that zone. It makes sense, every 5 tiers you get essentially a Hell level. Gut check if you will.


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Keeze

Darpey

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Re: T10 Thoughts/Musings

« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2015, 07:10:29 pm »

Completely agree with all Expletus just said

I'm super down with T10 being a "gutcheck"... just think the gutcheck should come from some place other than SOLELY dps check or damage check

Which isn't to say the bosses shouldn't hit hard - because they should

I keep coming back to epic 1.0s in original EQ... MEGA hard quests (granted they were very flawed)... but didn't rely solely on killing things with lots of hps or lots of damage... only a few steps were mega super bosses.

^ But at the same time avoiding repetitive mario style "collect the coins" to make everything... (UWs, UC1, 2, 3, T9 Shocked

)

/ramble off


« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 07:15:45 pm by Darpey »	Logged

Darpey - Warrior <Focus Hope>
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Dimur

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Re: T10 Thoughts/Musings

« Reply #58 on: January 05, 2015, 07:15:10 pm »

Quote from: Kwai on January 05, 2015, 07:00:27 pm

I see where you're coming from Dim, but T10 should be not only accessible, but ultimately winnable for anyone who logs on, pays their dues in the grind of flagging through T9 for T10.

And what dues would be sufficient? I agree everyone should be required to pay their dues to be able to progress there, I also am realistic enough to know that anyone who's in T7+ already has a UW in their arsenal. Perhaps I was misleading when I said multiple UW characters should be required to do the content in T10, I didn't mean they all had to be the same person's toons they are playing...it's quite easy to raid up with other people who have a UW toon or 2. I simply don't think a single group of characters with a single UW on their warrior should be making much headway in T10, since that's basically every person T7+ has at least one UW in their arsenal and you aren't raising the bar of requirements and you are raising the rewards considerably.