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[hateborne]

well these parse are kind of funny cause you do a rogue but the rogue cant BS during the parse so you only get a fraction of his real dps...and buffs make a HUGE difference...

How? I converted Practice Dummy to stationary, non-combative. Love for the rogues.

my warrior is a strait villain on dps but then again you are not seeing the massive riposte damage as well so that is not even acurate...

If I do riposte damage, I've got to test against MANY mob types and various mob counts. Yes, that's a more accurate account of DPS, but I'm looking for a ballpark baseline. :-)

the wizzy  gets a massive aoe burst...its all just bullshit really...

How often is EVERY fight AOE? Even so, with the 15 or 24s CD, that's a small chunk relatively speaking.

we are getting strait up damage that has no basis in game if we hit /attack on and I see it as all bad data unless its monk or strait 1 target nuking with pet... so the enchanters and mages and Beastlords have actually inflated numbers because they are a strait nuke/pet 1 target dps creature.... the necros zerks and wizzys have an aoe component we cant measure ...

LoL if you want to parse literally every scenario humanly possible, please do. I'll even throw you 300 credits for this kind of data for every class in every situation. Given that we both don't have the ability or time to spend days writing automated DPS bots....this is 'middle-of-the-road' situation. Not amazing, definitely not @#%@, and the first semi-accurate OVERALL parse we've ever had.

so /shrug bad data in bad data out i guess....infer what you want from it but its not accurate.

Edit;
not trying to be a negative ---- about it.... I just wish I could really do these parses vrs real fights and see the data is all:)

I know, but you have to understand the reality of the situation, I am not Blizzard. I don't have an army of players BEGGING to spend hundreds of hours on a test server just so they can preemptively whine about upcoming patches. If we get to that point (playerbase), you better believe I'm going to do some extreme precision parsing. For now, this is all I can muster. :-)


-Hate

[Chunka]

A few things: first the practice dummy doesnt agro anymore, so backstab to your heart's content. Second, even if they still agro'd I backstabbed during parses all the time......I just put the war on the dummy a few, no weapon equipped, and stood the tank rightr on top of the dummy....then put rogue at max melee range. Constant backstab

As to the other, you're right on the money there. But I DO parse during fights, and overall the difference for DPS (except for warrior and for some reason bard) isnt much different (non AE dps, that is....I do wish there were a reliable AE meter for dps).

[hateborne]

A few things: first the practice dummy doesnt agro anymore, so backstab to your heart's content. Second, even if they still agro'd I backstabbed during parses all the time......I just put the war on the dummy a few, no weapon equipped, and stood the tank rightr on top of the dummy....then put rogue at max melee range. Constant backstab

As to the other, you're right on the money there. But I DO parse during fights, and overall the difference for DPS (except for warrior and for some reason bard) isnt much different (non AE dps, that is....I do wish there were a reliable AE meter for dps).

Maybe this next week I'll quickly convert a zone to a parse zone. I'll setup groups of npcs to AoE test, riposte test, etc etc. :-)

One of the small, one-two room zones like chambersa/b.


-Hate

[Rent Due]

A few things: first the practice dummy doesnt agro anymore, so backstab to your heart's content. Second, even if they still agro'd I backstabbed during parses all the time......I just put the war on the dummy a few, no weapon equipped, and stood the tank rightr on top of the dummy....then put rogue at max melee range. Constant backstab

As to the other, you're right on the money there. But I DO parse during fights, and overall the difference for DPS (except for warrior and for some reason bard) isnt much different (non AE dps, that is....I do wish there were a reliable AE meter for dps).

Maybe this next week I'll quickly convert a zone to a parse zone. I'll setup groups of npcs to AoE test, riposte test, etc etc. :-)

One of the small, one-two room zones like chambersa/b.


-Hate

is that like the torture room? like jig-saw stuff? or like S&M stuff? where can we sign up for this?

[balidet]

this zone sounds epic!:)

[Rent Due]

whips? chains? midgets? I wanna know what all is gonna be in this "Room of Hate"

either way, I'm signing up!

[hateborne]

Removed two full pages of posts from this thread as it degenerated into a pissing match...again. Keep it on topic or create another topic. Not in the mood for this constant pissing match in every thread.


-Hate

[warrior5]

Did a parse today, consisted of two clears of T8 so a good sample of real combat (small pulls 1-8 mobs each). I have all classes except necro and beastlord so hopefully this is helpful. The only toon here who isn't using their spells properly is mage (I just use him for coh...). Everything else should be an accurate representation of a properly geared T9/T8 crew (as opposed to all end-game t10+ which is mostly what we see parses on and I don't believe reflects the reality most players deal with). Everyone has basically the same buffs except the MT who obviously had some more. Only the main tank has a UW and only the wizard has a MN. All toons have appropriate augs and armor for their tier (all X/IX augs basically) except bard and SK are using goblinstrike X/IXs over NS/FS X/IX and casters use stratagems fwiw. Total fight time for all was 2200 seconds.

78 tank (main warrior) - UWIX + UC2
77 pally - UC2
77 hot (pally2) - UC1
77 cleric
77 monk - UC1
77 bard - UC1
77 zerk - UC2
76 babe (monk2) - UC1
77 shaman - UC1
77 zerkette (zerk2) - UC2
76 nature (ranger)
77 enchanter - UC1
76 wizzy - UC2 + MNX
77 rogue - UC2
76 priest (druid)
76 war (backup tank)
76 shadow (sk)
76 mage

Toon    ----------  DPS  ----------  % of Tot

78 uwix uc2 Godtank (war)    ----------     4,899,381     ----------    37.57%
77 uc2 Godrogue + pets    ----------     1,298,066     ----------    9.95%
77 uc2 Godzerk + pets    ----------     943,832     ----------    7.24%
76 uc1 Godbabe + pets (mnk)    ----------     942,078     ----------    7.22%
77 uc2 Godzerkette + pets    ----------     939,337     ----------    7.20%
77 uc1 Godmonk + pets    ----------     781,023     ----------    5.99%
77 uc2 Godpally + pets    ----------     729,918     ----------    5.60%
76 Godnature + pets (rng)    ----------     678,590     ----------    5.20%
77 uc1 Godhottie + pets (pal)    ----------     555,737     ----------    4.26%
76 uc2 mnx Godwizzy + pets    ----------     469,312     ----------    3.60%
77 Godbard    ----------     289,596     ----------    2.22%
77 uc1 Godchantress    ----------     209,121     ----------    1.60%
76 Godshadow + pets (sk)    ----------     141,479     ----------    1.08%
77 Godshammy + pets    ----------     78,954     ----------    0.61%
76 Godwar + pets    ----------     59,462     ----------    0.46%
77 Godcleric + pets    ----------     7,927     ----------    0.06%
76 Godmage + pets    ----------     6,453     ----------    0.05%
76 Godpriest + pets    ----------     3,092     ----------    0.02%
Total    ----------     13,040,639     ----------    100%

My major takeaways from all this:

1.) My wizard is arguably my second best geared toon next to my main tank, she has a mana neck X (best for her level otherwise I would upgrade), and a UC2. I've spent extra time and resources on this toon specifically because I hear wizards have good dps / usefulness in t10 and I want to test the mananeck changes. I have her casting HBGGII because I want single target DPS as I usually deal with small pulls. I'm disappointed to see she is still doing less DPS than my paladins, my non-uc ranger, and my zerks all of which have lesser gear than her. I'm not saying the wizard won't crush DPS when I beat the game - I'm providing a DPS as is for T9/T8 crew. It doesn't matter much to me what DPS she will do once I've finished all her gear - I care about how useful she is along the way.

2.) A second warrior using 2x Anger VI in later tiers has been relegated to the worthless category. Even if he had a UC 1, 2, or 3 it's obvious his DPS would still be terrible (like the 400k/800k in Hate's end-game parse). Using ISX would only make it worse - I never understood why warriors share an aug with lowly casters who don't even melee. Warriors are officially useless without UW and/or when they aren't being used for tanking. Compare his DPS to the non-uc ranger and you'll see what I mean. If the intention was to guarantee folks wouldn't use more than one warrior it works - but personally I like warriors and would like to see Anger Aug VI upgraded or at least allow for VII for lvl 77+ which would be significantly more powerful and appropriate for content. Considering warriors have historically been both the strongest defense and previously the strongest DPS it sucks to now see them at the bottom of the DPS totem pole without a UW. If the recent changes to anger augs made this worse or better I don't know, but it's sad to see them so worthless. You could argue Anger Augs are for lower tiers, but a.) the VI requires lvl 75 (loping plains), and b.) warriors don't have any other options except equally worthless icestrikes or to go get that UW. I don't think a UW should be required for a toon to have DPS, especially the warrior class (which is both offensive and defensive in nature). If the argument is we should only have one warrior, then so be it, but I find that restrictive and EZ is all about freedom. I personally don't like that the warrior class has become 100% tank and no offense whatsoever without UW - especially considering proposed changes might bring other classes up in terms of mitigation on top of this. If nothing else, a legitimately powerful Anger Aug VII would encourage more main tanks to use 1hs UW. As it is now, everyone and their mother (except fugi) uses 2h because warriors do zero damage with available augs in offhand. This is despite the fact that everyone agrees the 1hs looks cooler. Also, because my MT has to use 2h UW, he can't seem to out-aggro my second warrior (who is using 1hs) if I have anything equipped besides anger augs or icestrikes (eg. no epic / angerbomb) so my 2nd tank can't even be used as a second tank as he can't use his epic click or angerbomb.

3.) My druid is so busy casting beneficial things I cannot make good use of his damage spells (since skin lasts only a few seconds). He also hasn't picked up any dps spells worth using in 8 tiers. Also his epic click is so terrible I don't use it.

4.) SK is also worthless although he's apparently doing 3x the damage of my backup warrior. Personally, I think the DPS of the SK should be on par with or better than the ranger since he doesn't do anything else.

5.) I don't plan on getting a mananeck for any other casters based on this data.

[balidet]

my wizzard fully buffed with mana neck can crit aoe nuke for 29mil the non crits are impressive as well..even in t10 you can see when it goes off... and in t9 its awesome...

I am  thinking of adding another wizzy BUT untill this spell they are meh...so 9 teirs of meh for 1 tier of booya!...fun right?

[warrior5]

Updated parse. I updated everyone's AAs, doubled fight time, and upgraded a few augs to bring everyone up to par. Same result basically. Wizard bangs are strong, but DPS is terrible. Backup warrior still stinks. This parse was mostly single target boss kills, but Wizard still has poor DPS.

Update: Forgot to mention wizzy has angryface also.

GEAR   ----   Toon Name    DPS    ----   % of Tot   ----    Time    ----    Hits    ----    Max hit    ----    Avg hit    ----    Total

78 WAR UC2 UWIX   ----   Godtank    5,433,593    ----   37.33%   ----    4,538    ----    19,313    ----    9,922,500    ----    1,276,738    ----    24,657,644,322
77 ROG UC2   ----   Godrogue + pets    1,412,258    ----   9.67%   ----    4,522    ----    13,128    ----    5,502,750    ----    486,458    ----    6,386,232,429
77 MNK UC1   ----   Godbabe + pets    1,097,803    ----   7.52%   ----    4,522    ----    13,389    ----    4,237,750    ----    370,771    ----    4,964,263,340
77 BER UC2 AF   ----   Godzerk + pets    1,078,041    ----   7.38%   ----    4,521    ----    7,398    ----    3,300,594    ----    658,803    ----    4,873,825,105
77 BER UC2 AF   ----   Godzerkette + pets    1,052,999    ----   7.21%   ----    4,521    ----    6,401    ----    3,300,500    ----    743,728    ----    4,760,608,218
77 MNK UC1   ----   Godmonk + pets    1,036,631    ----   7.10%   ----    4,521    ----    12,791    ----    4,237,750    ----    366,398    ----    4,686,609,270
76 RNG   ----   Godnature + pets    755,176    ----   5.16%   ----    4,516    ----    10,414    ----    4,347,750    ----    327,479    ----    3,410,372,687
77 PAL UC2   ----   Godpally + pets    737,932    ----   5.05%   ----    4,520    ----    8,868    ----    3,570,147    ----    376,122    ----    3,335,452,015
77 PAL UC1   ----   Godhottie + pets    526,976    ----   3.60%   ----    4,518    ----    7,804    ----    2,655,311    ----    305,084    ----    2,380,877,510
76 WIZ UC2 MNX AF   ----   Godwizzy + pets    476,185    ----   3.26%   ----    4,523    ----    2,311    ----    11,115,000    ----    931,971    ----    2,153,785,340
77 BRD UC1   ----   Godbard    324,727    ----   2.22%   ----    4,520    ----    4,476    ----    3,697,688    ----    327,919    ----    1,467,765,754
77 ENC   ----   Godchantress    221,411    ----   1.52%   ----    4,520    ----    4,576    ----    655,987    ----    218,701    ----    1,000,779,726
76 SHD   ----   Godshadow + pets    156,126    ----   1.07%   ----    4,522    ----    4,951    ----    2,309,730    ----    142,597    ----    706,002,583
76 WAR   ----   Godwar + pets    146,792    ----   1.01%   ----    4,522    ----    7,144    ----    2,083,052    ----    92,916    ----    663,794,848
77 SHM UC1   ----   Godshammy + pets    95,604    ----   0.65%   ----    4,522    ----    6,574    ----    1,797,833    ----    65,762    ----    432,322,527
77 CLR   ----   Godcleric + pets    16,196    ----   0.11%   ----    4,522    ----    2,569    ----    600,250    ----    28,508    ----    73,238,309
76 MAG   ----   Godmage + pets    7,845    ----   0.05%   ----    4,518    ----    3,232    ----    167,212    ----    10,966    ----    35,442,176
Mage Pet   ----   Garantik    7,276    ----   0.05%   ----    4,518    ----    2,267    ----    27,420    ----    14,500    ----    32,871,988
76 DRU   ----   Godpriest + pets    5,110    ----   0.03%   ----    4,519    ----    2,612    ----    128,625    ----    8,840    ----    23,091,368
   
----   Total    14,547,352    ----   100%   ----    4,540    ----    140,218    ----    11,115,000    ----    471,016    ----    66,044,979,515

[warrior5]

Just did a cleaner one. I didn't realize a couple new toons not only don't have UC but a couple don't have max charms (collected tons of goblin gifts for them but they vanished after xmas event - never got to combine the charms). Regardless, here is the new data. All toons now casting their best spells for T8 and attacking. 1700 seconds, some large pulls some single pulls in T8. All toons are lvl 77 now with exactly the same armor and buffs except main warrior. All augs and pets are listed. Wizzy still way below expectation in DPS considering gear (also fwiw UC1 ENC without MN is worthless):

Damage by   /   % of Tot   /   DPS

78 WAR UWIX UC3 IG     /   50.42%   /    6,501,541
77 ROG UC2 2NSX MOF   /   6.77%   /    912,558
77 BER UC2 FSX+FSIX AF   /   6.48%   /    875,108
77 BER UC2 FSX+FSIX AF   /   6.31%   /    852,614
77 MNK UC1 2NSX MOF   /   4.64%   /    624,994
77 MNK UC1 2NSX MOF   /   4.62%   /    622,447
77 BRD MAX SORC 2GSX MOF   /   4.13%   /    556,069
77 RNG MAX SORC 2NSX MOF   /   4.08%   /    549,168
77 WIZ UC2 MNXI GSTXII AF   /   3.69%   /    498,401
77 PAL UC1 FSX+FSIX MOF      /   2.68%   /    361,774
77 PAL UC2 FSX+FSIX IG    /   2.30%   /    310,552
77 SK MIN SORC GSX+GSIX MOF   /   1.07%   /    144,375
77 WAR MIN SORC GSX+GSIX IG   /   0.70%   /    94,075
77 SHM MAX ORACLE GSX MOF     /   0.64%   /    85,929
77 DRU MAX ORACLE GSTIX IG     /   0.57%   /    77,225
77 MAG MIN SORC GSTX+GSTXI IG    /   0.37%   /    50,090
77 ENC UC1 GSTXII IG   /   0.26%   /    34,590
77 CLR MAX ORACLE ISX IG   /   0.22%   /    29,328

Total      /   100%   /    12,879,626

Key: GS=Goblinstrike, GST=Goblin Stratagem, AF=Angryface Pet, MIN=<11, MAX=>41, MOF=Mistress of Flame Pet, IG=Insane Goblin Pet, MN=Mananeck

DPS Spells:
CLR=Chromastrike III
ENC=Breathless IV
DRU=Harbinger of the Sun IV + Epic
WIZ=HGGII
RNG=Fistful of Arrows III + Epic
MAG=Taelosian Victory II
SK=Shy Crustacean's Soul Eater II + Offensive Epic
SHM=Snake's Kiss III

How is this possible?

Hateborne - 78 Wizard, UCv3, Mana Necklace XI, Buffs: Curious Creation III (Spamming Hateborne's Glacial Gift II)
DMG: 796973422 @ 1,844,846 sdps (1,844,846 dps in 432s) [100%]

Wizard (using Yamakagi's IV) - Curious Creation III, Mana Necklace XI, UCv2, Tserrina Staff : 2.6mil DPS

T9 GODWIZZY UC2 MNXI GSTXII ANGRY FACE, CURIOUS CREATION III SPAMMING HBGGII 498,401 DPS in 1700 secs

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