UW and GSoA

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[Raygan]

I would like to have everyone take a minute and think about this with an open mind....I have seen t4 drop 2 gsoa with in 5 minutes.....it made me think.

Why should GSoA drop in any zone before t8?  Which got me thinking.  Why should UW quest become available before T7 (the zone Hunter started UW in)....How about we remove GSoA drops in any zone before T8 and make T7 the opening for the UW quest line?

Discuss.

I think it is a good idea.

[Subdued]

Currently the GSOA is a fantastic tool for newer players to amass platinum for outfitting their team as a heathy alternative to even more GLS farming than is already necessary. I think it's in a great place right now which forces vets to either buy them for plat or take their chances with lower drop rates at higher tiers. If GSOA were removed from lower tiers I think you would have to find another source of play revenue for players (besides rainbows) to accommodate. As a player who started a few months ago, I thought the early player economy felt just right, particularly due to the sale I had of a few GSOAs.

As far as UW is concerned, I think it's in a decent place personally although I hate the white dmg jump from uw1-uw3 followed by the lack of a jump from uw3-uw5.

Kathina

[Waraesh]

For the UW the only thing I would change is somehow pointing out that you can't socket your nerds into UWI.  A couple people I know of got their UW before their HS1 aug and they were unhappy.  That being said, augs are easier to grind out now, so even that to me becomes irrelevant.  If you have the time, you can grind out the essences for the UW, so it would seem logical to give players access to it sooner.  For me doing some of the UW grind during t5 kept me sane when I was leveling up my first UW.

As for the GSoA, I am on the fence here.  On one side, as a vet I understand the need to purchase these to fill in earrings of the ages.  On the other side, they are destroying the game for noobs.  It has been a while since I cared enough to run the numbers, but the last time I did, I think you were able to buy all the materials (and maybe even essences, back when people sold essences) for 2 or 3 NinjaStrike augs to t5 by selling 1 GSoA.  And that was when they were 10m plat.  These days the vets are basically printing money anytime they log in, so I've heard of people paying 15m for GSoA. 

The person buying them gets a GSoA.....wheee only 52 more and it will be useful.  The person selling them gets 15m plat, which equates to farming 60 SLS (do you remember farming SLS back in the day?).  The amount of time and grind that went into getting those first strike augs was tough, but it set me up to understand what was in store for me later on in the game.  I just think having what becomes a grossly huge nest egg that early on takes away any challenge from leveling up.  The server becomes too EZ.

[Raygan]

Strike augs were adjusted to only be able to be used at your current tier level as well. I just think that GSoA dropping in tiers below t8 hurts the economy....getting 20k aa isnt that difficult with xp buffs being cast in nexus all the time. This is designed to make content less trivial....also why should GSoA have a better drop in rate in tiers a higher level can steam roll and a lower chance in higher tiers ( I understand this is because mobs have more hp in later tiers and so it takes longer to kill "x" mob)....this is more of a way to make things better...not to hurt players....I also undertsnad there could be alot of butthurt at the beginning.  i just think it will be better for the long term.

[Raygan]

We will just have to agree to disagree. 

[Chunka]

I'd rather see GSoA no drop, honestly. But then I also think UW should use essences completely different from the ones used for strikes, mana necks, SoA.

[Ponzi]

No no no no. There is 100% no reason at all to do this. One thing this server is known for is the grinds you can do at any point. You are asking to remove 2 of them till 3/4ths done with the server? You are literally trying to force a certain play style among all people. I even feel the implication that this stuff is intended to be done when you feel is wrong or their wouldn't be progressive level increases based off the tiers on UW. Shall we remove all things that have been done In this game if it was implemented during a certain tier? Why isn't mana necklace or strike augs on your list?

You're right, the Mana Necklace should be wiped from existence, immediately.

[Waraesh]

I will agree with Fruiti regardless, due to amazingly long silence being broken!

[Raygan]

I agree with maybe GSoA should be made no drop BUT we still have the same problem....people will buy no drop....the point behind making something like GSoA drop in higher tiers is so that it doesnt trivialize things early in game.....Master Esse are no drop but still will sell.  GsoA is something that was designed for end gamers who needed something else to do with their time/AA....so why not make it something that only drops in later tiers (i.e. T8-10)

[Rent Due]

I think I would rather see GSOA drops tier up instead of not drop till T8.

Double loot weekend for instance, I did some time in T9 to finish off some essences. I racked up nearly 30mil in plat from trash loot and 30 essences. Not one single GSOA

Fast forward to the next day.....

I did 2 runs of HOH and got 3 GSOA's to drop. Now, I'm thinking to myself WTF! I mean seriously WTF. I hear people all the time say Qvic drops GSOA's at a good rate, HOH and even T6. What you don't hear is people farming T8/9/10 and getting ANY to drop. I think I've seen one drop in T8 after farming, if I remember, 60ish essences, ONE!

Now, comeon, something is seriously wrong with that picture. The Earring of the Ages is a Top tier item, its not a HOH or Qvic item, so why on earth would they drop like rain in those 2 zones and drop like.......well, hardly ever drop in the tiers where the toons are that would be seriously working on the item?

Good for the economy? sure, good for new players to fast forward through the dull stuff we had to do in the past, like farm plat by any means we could.

Today's new player has it pretty smooth. You log in, within a day or so you will find a Top or Mid tier person willing to PL your new crew to 70, help you through POT, get your 1.5's or at least 1 for you. Start your path, find a GSOA or some xp shards, sell those, fund your strike augs/shield(s), whatever. You get massively OP'ed buffs in nexus almost on the hour some days.

I mean no, I don't want to see new players have to resort to SLS farming to pay for strike augs, not entirely. I mean just because we had to walk in the snow doesn't mean I want to see others have to do it.

What I do want though is to see the GSOA's drop chance increased in the late tiers and decreased in the earlier tiers. In my opinion promoting the desire to progress to get to "the good stuff" faster.

The entire idea behind our server is basic, make a box team and progress it evenly. However, people are not doing that. They are stacking one toon (warrior) with a UW, shield, ring, earring, top tier gear then going back to POT and building their crew. That's the easiest way to do it, I can not fault people for doing it. If the path is there, why not walk it.

The UW thing.....ehh, I don't know, I am kinda tired of talking about UW's. True we all made it to T7 in earlier times without the weapon and it was implemented to lay waste to everything. Now a days players are convinced it is a MUST HAVE item, you can not possibly play without one.

Look, bottom line, UW is a farming tool, its a going back to lower tiers hacking away solo farming tool. Lets just leave it where it is cause I don't want to read through 5 pages of butthurt before Hate gets on and locks this thread.

If we must talk about UW's, lets talk about the lack of UW augs.....

[Raygan]

Eliseus, this is simply a discussion thread. I am not capable of making changes. This is Hate's sandbox. So don't take any of this personally. I agree with what you say Rent. Your reasoning for plat/zooming through low level content and gaining access to overpowered gear at low levels is my primary gripe.  Blasting through all the content only makes people leave because there is no challenge.  This of course is only MY opinion.

[Raygan]

Also I am on phone at work...will look up original postings by Hunter when I get home to my pc

[Chunka]

What I do want though is to see the GSOA's drop chance increased in the late tiers and decreased in the earlier tiers. In my opinion promoting the desire to progress to get to "the good stuff" faster.

This. I understand the gsoa and unispooge were added to make lower tiers less boring, and while I appreciate the effort I can tell you it didnt work. Going back to farm CT for 100 essences to increase my team's DPS still makes me want to sell my eyes on ebay, use the money to buy a vintage 1982 Walkman DD, then feel around the box it comes in til I find it then smash it to bits screaming "ANOTHER CORPSE WITH HALF A DOZEN USELESS GEMS!!!" just to spite myself. Wanna make UW/SoA/Strike backfarming less likely to make someone stop playing? Add a unified top end farm zone....like ToFS did for charm upgrades, but for Qvic to say at least Abyss essences. Make it gnasty, gnarly, gnostic, whatever....just dont make it boring.  Make this shit fun, make it challenging....hell, even make it take longer than it does in the normal zones! You'll still see more upper tier players working there than you will in CT, PoDrags, etc.

Meanwhile we need to quit making shit easier for newer players. If anything we need to make it harder...more challenging; regardless what any of you try to claim THIS will improve chances of keeping players connected and invested longer, because it will make it less likely to become monotonous and repetitive in a week or two.

[Chunka]

And before one of you pathetic SoB's starts givin me shit about how I am trying to make it harder for you new guys "cuz I already got mine" (floored me when someone actually told me this last time I made this type post) you need to understand that I am NOT top tier...and I did most of this stuff back when it WAS harder. As Rent said...dont need to see kids trudge through the same snow we did....but the fact of the matter is that one of the top tanks on our server is a guy who started not all that long ago, who I remember helping get started .....who blasted through content at an amazing rate and became one of the servers most accomplished players, and who know as much about T10 as anyone playing here (and more than most)....but who now doesnt play much at all. Is this because of RL....or because logging in and working on his team isnt that much fun anymore? Any way you look at it attrition is an issue...and making the initial lower tier grind so quick and easy aint doin these newer players any favors.

[Subdued]

As a player who just recently went through the lower tiers, has played EQ and private servers since 1998, has completed UW3 and has the essences to UW6, and is currently on the verge of starting T6, I can confidently state my opinion as the following:

I think making GSOA no-drop, decreasing its drop rate in lower tiers and increasing it in higher tiers is a great idea.  I realize this sounds contrary to what I stated in the earlier post but I think it could be highly beneficial if done correctly.  Why decrease the lower tier rate and stil make it no drop? Because you don't want to have a newer player frustrated that they haven't yet "hit the GSOA lottery" with a lowered drop rate in their current tiers in order to make their 10-15m plat.  

If you make the GSOA no drop and drop more in higher tiers, I think you have to give newer players a source of plat.  I think the plat bags are actually a pretty strong idea.  Maybe a new level of them should be added.  Or make the 100k bags drop more frequently.  While you're at it, remove gem drops completely from Qvic and up.  They're a complete waste of time to loot and just cause more corpse clutter when they're the only thing on corpses.  Chunka says vets/higher tier players quit because they don't want to farm lower tiers for UW essences, and that's fine, but if you ask new players to spend hours/days farming low level GLS all day just to fund their strikes/mana necks, I don't see how those players won't quit too.  I personally would much rather run circles around QVIC for 8 hours than to spend 5 minutes farming GLS.  It's like watching a 4 hour triple-overtime NFL playoff game ending on a field goal kicking contest.  I don't see how farming GLS for hours on end should be a staple of early player development.  It was like that in the past?  Who gives it a shit.  That doesn't mean it was a good design just because that's the way it used to be.  We still play the game to be fun, and you can make it hard work but still enjoyable at the same time.  Fun and work do not have to be mutually exclusive.  Nobody has fun farming GLS.

Chunka's idea sounds strong:  a tough, challenging zone that drops t1-t6 essences.  Even at a low rate, coupled with strong AA xp rates for people who are farming for their rings/mask still.

Regarding the game being too easy for newer players, I don't disagree.  I think the t5 setup is great.  I still think t5 corals are awful and a poor design decision in their current setup, but it's manageable.  I think t1/t2 dragons are way too easy but also too far spread out.  To make the zone more enjoyable, I would make them more difficult but make them spawn minis for crystals a bit more frequently as well.  I felt like breaking into LDON and Qvic were a lot of fun, WITHOUT buffs.  With buffs, they were stupidly easy.  Comically so.  I never felt any challenge whatsoever in t1/t2.  Just annoyance.  A lot of it.  Awful awful zone.  Maybe CT bosses should be the "required" armor to advance the tier, and make the trash drops go away?  Essence farming and armor farming there are basically the same:  pull as many as you can and hope you get your drop.  The zone itself just doesn't feel like a progression zone in the way that qvic and t1 does.  Instead it just feels like an unfinished amusement park ride.  It's missing the paint and the music.

Kathina

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