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Author Topic: State of EZ and T10  (Read 15246 times)
warrior5
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« on: January 25, 2017, 03:05:35 am »

I realize I QQd about the T10 mini recently without posting any helpful suggestions so I thought I'd pen some of the things I've been thinking regarding EZ and primarily T10.

Akka feel free to ignore this entirely as I expect exactly *zero* of this to happen keeping in mind you are extremely busy and have been sick recently plus you crushed T10 like yesterday and you owe us nada Smiley. For anyone who isn't Akka if you don't like any suggestions here then idgaf (okay maybe a little). Not sure his thoughts, but I think it's *always* better to post suggestions on the public board than to email Akka directly as A.) it's less intrusive and B.) the whole community can and should have a say especially with any meaningful changes: Grin

Okay first T10:

1. T10 is now very playable vs. what was barely playable before (and for me with 18 toons it wasn't playable at all). It's actually pretty fun and still extremely, and even unreasonably challenging. Kudos to Akka and Rent and everyone else for all the hard work getting this zone hashed out.

2. For those who say T10 is easier than before - yes and no, yes because traps have been removed / no lag / some mobs move slower / pb spawn / less mobs / coh etc., but I would also point to the fact that bosses spawned significantly more in the previous T10. For example, passing through the open portal before would always spawn Grime, and I often couldn't enter the pub zone without seeing multiple bosses up including Thunder or BoB. In the new T10, Grime doesn't seem to spawn in any circumstance, and the portals seem to do nothing. Additionally, despite tweaks to the spawns by Akka, it still seems very skewy in that some bosses are popping while others are exceedingly rare or not popping at all. For example, I've seen maybe 23 orc boss pops of which 18 were Zug (~80%), 3 were Mother and only two (yes, two) were Thunder. I also haven't seen Mother in weeks and I'm aware some folks can't get her to pop at all. I guess I'm just really lucky one of my Thunders and Mothers each had a soul. At this pace of boss spawns I will have geared one group in Orc gear by the time I complete my faction (if I'm lucky) - which means I will have to do the faction three times over for enough tokens for all 18 toons. Considering the rate at which these mobs can be killed - and I think it's 15k (?) kills for ally faction - that's a brutal task (makes T5 look like a picnic). Not entirely unreasonable, except I intend to do all armor with the new quest which would be 45k kills x3 = 135k kills at 10 kills per minute (yeah right) = 13,500 minutes = 225 hours = not reasonable. In other news, Brunaa mentioned she would see a bandit boss pop every single clear of the bandit camp on the hill, but I've since cleared the camp countless times with no spawns (edit: okay then got three in a row, so odd). Brunaa also mentioned she hasn't had any Orc bosses today in ~600 kills - I've heard of stretches like this multiple times before. It seems the bosses are popping with odd frequency or according to mechanics that don't seem consistent or reasonable. I suggest reworking the boss spawning mechanics so that we don't get 80-90% orc bosses as Zug and weird endless boss gaps, and also please check the bosses which haven't spawned at all (eg. Grime).

2. I echo Orthanos (wtf) in that PB spawns in place are amazing, thank god, but also that the kill count is still too high. Either PBs should spawn about 2x as much as they do now, or kill count should be 500. This is my opinion, but I think most folks agree with something along these lines.

3. Bandit loot should drop much, much more often or they should be worth more for turning in. Right now they aren't even worth handing in.

4. Please remove all the scrolls and other junk loot from the tables. Nothing worse than getting a scroll every time a PB dies, it's worse than no loot Smiley Alternatively, make the scrolls rare, lore, no drop, and unlimited charges.

5. Sometimes bosses drop nothing at all aside from a token, not sure if this is intentional - seems odd as they usually drop quite a bit.

6. Chests / boxes / goods seem like they could spawn a lot more unless I just don't understand the mechanics.

7. Essences are shockingly rare if you're not killing goo or opening a box (which is very rare as I said). Not sure everyone else's thought on this but I've spent a good amount of time in zone and only had a handful drop. It's much, much lower than T9 or T8 in my experience (maybe 5% of T9?)

8. Vampire artifacts are still dropping and should be removed.

9. Instancing T10 is too expensive, I understand we want to remove plat from the server and keep the number of instances low, but it's too high as is. Maybe 1/2?

10. I think shards should be rare, but seems they might be too rare. Maslow is an insane monster who beat the game and has basically finished everything but shards - seems shards are in the PB category of "huh." Others who play a ton have zero or maybe one.

11. I once pulled Zug and he did his pushback thing constantly, maybe every 1-2 seconds. Was extremely difficult to kill but I haven't noticed this since as I usually have a way to stop this. If this is his normal behavior I don't know how other folks are killing him since my method isn't available to everyone. Just an observation.

12. Can we get faction for killing mobs in T10 mini?

13. Killing Ro'kki gives credit towards stolen loot quest but killing Little Jhaughn does not.

General server stuff:

1. Can we do the right thing and solve the GSOA problem? GSOA should be rare in lower tiers and more common as you move up tiers. As it is now, you can kill endless mobs in T3 and get a GSOA, but if you farm OC or you're working T10 you don't see them drop due to slow killing. Right now seems GSOA are so rare on server that lower folks can command basically unlimited amounts of plat for them if they want - getting a GSOA as a lowbie is like hitting the lottery, and it's worse than ever. Solution 1: Have crafter's guild merchant sell GSOA for 10M pp to suck plat out and so end game folks have another option besides paying 15M to toons with T2 armor and zero plat. Solution 2: make GSOA no drop and only drop in T8, T9 and T10 at a rate of 3x or more of what it is now. After all, it's an end game item.

2. Before Hate left I think he nerfed the drop rate in Dranik pretty hard, can this be restored? Seems folks only do MPG now and I think we had a bad habit of nerfing minis into oblivion in the past to where no one does them anymore. If you prefer, make Dranik scale as well to make the rewards reasonable for effort. (If this was already done please ignore, I stopped doing Dranik after the last hardcore loot nerf). Also bring back T5 mini and fix T7 mini b/c it ain't good Smiley

3. It's been a while since pofire was a good XP zone let's do it again! haha  Grin

4. Server economy is totally dead. Only solution at this point is to put some things like GSOA, SLS and EONs on crafter's merchant. Alternatively open the bazaar back up (this is closed right?).

5. Overthere is back!

6. Please make T11 an old world zone so we can start with zero lag and a working map Smiley

7. Bard aggro is a bit insane, I find myself not using his songs at all just b/c I'm tired of rezing him. Have heard similar from other folks. Bard could also use another T10 spell or two. As it is I'm using a lvl 70 and a lvl 76 song along with the good stuff.

8. Probably impossible, but what are the odds we could make our corpses auto-disappear after rez? I can dream.

9. Intentionally left blank for more possible stuff.

10. Awesome job on performance issues and all the other recent changes Akka, very, very good stuff. Thank you for all your hard work.


tl;dr - moar QQ b/c I had too much caffeine tonight.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 01:18:49 am by warrior5 » Logged

Peign
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« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2017, 08:58:55 am »


4. Please remove all the scrolls and other junk loot from the tables. Nothing worse than getting a scroll every time a PB dies, it's worse than no loot Smiley Alternatively, make the scrolls rare, lore, no drop, and unlimited charges.


Lots of great suggestions.   Would like to highlight this one, please, please remove these junk scrolls.   
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Raygan
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« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2017, 05:25:44 pm »

I'm concerned I agree with Orthanos in this thread as he is wrong about basically everything.


2. I echo Orthanos (wtf) in that PB spawns in place are amazing, thank god, but also that the kill count is still too high. Either PBs should spawn about 2x as much as they do now, or kill count should be 500. This is my opinion, but I think most folks agree with something along these lines.

Well that's twice in your life you have been right....... Cool
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Hate's Most Hateful Hater
Akkadius
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« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2017, 09:16:39 am »

When I sit down to crunch more changes I'll look through these and address ones that I think are necessary.

Some of these I feel are a little doomsdaying, which is a bit of an eye-roll.

I have logs for all the spawn rates so I will take a look through them, crunch some math and make adjustments accordingly.

Thanks for the forum reports.

And yes, I have been sick, more than a week now and finally went into urgent care and got some good drugs. I think I'm on the upswing and should 100% here soon.  Grin
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« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2017, 09:45:40 am »

Please get rid of the scrolls and potions in T10.

As for the boss spawn rates forgemaster does not spawn at all. For the other bosses can they all be as easily spawnable as the other 2 gnoll bosses Lord Venombite and Darkpaw?

Plagueborns can they spawn a lot more too? I finished all my gnoll and orc faction (pre-akka update) and I've gotten 217 pb's. Basically for every time you do factions to ally for me anyways it seems like I get 100 pb's... that's seems a bit too low after killing thousands of mobs.

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Brunaa
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« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2017, 10:44:43 am »

I agree with the scrolls and potions , each mob you loot is a scroll or potions in thats absolutly useless.

The Boss spawn seem ok for me, the easiest to spawn are the Bandits (except Sharp ) and the Gnoll Bosses (except the Forgemaster).

Sarnak Bosses are ok, the Orc Bosses a bit harder but you get them to spawn only Den Mother seems dam rare.

The PB spawn are also ok so far.

To make T10 as easy as Mersedez wants it will make it boring and I dont think that t10 is made to finish it within 4 weeks time.

« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 10:49:26 am by Brunaa » Logged
warrior5
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« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2017, 11:00:21 am »

I'll have room in my bunker when the day finally comes Akka! Thanks for looking into some of these.
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Peign
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« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2017, 11:11:39 am »

I agree with the scrolls and potions , each mob you loot is a scroll or potions in thats absolutly useless.

The Boss spawn seem ok for me, the easiest to spawn are the Bandits (except Sharp ) and the Gnoll Bosses (except the Forgemaster).

Sarnak Bosses are ok, the Orc Bosses a bit harder but you get them to spawn only Den Mother seems dam rare.

The PB spawn are also ok so far.

To make T10 as easy as Mersedez wants it will make it boring and I dont think that t10 is made to finish it within 4 weeks time.



Agree, Bosses seem ok.   Not sure about Forgemaster, I may not be smaht enough to spawn him.   I've spawned Den Mother 1x after 100s upon 100s of trigger mob kills.  Have also spawned Sharp only 1x.

PBs are tedious, but I have not agreed with the 1k PB quest from the get go. Excluding the AOE spells given to SKs I do not agree with much of what "he who shall not be named" has implemented.  Seems like most of what he implemented was intentionally adversarial to the playerbase /shrug.   
 I'm at 570/1000 after maxing faction multiple times over, killing 400 mobs/hour etc etc.  People finished the PB quest (grand total of 3 people done) due to a myriad of reasons, being around when they spawned more,  letting the MPG repop and finishing multiple MPGs within the 3 day timeframe, etc.     I don't do the MPG though as I detest dungeon crawls and don't want to loot undead artifacts on every kill.

1 month is certainly too short of a duration for T10 completion, however I would argue that 6 months + hard core grinding (not casual chill and chat) is way too long.
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walk2k
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« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2017, 04:11:30 pm »

I just had 2 PB in a row, and that was my 2nd and 3rd PB, I'm sitting at about 80 kills total. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Other things I noticed about T10 so far...
- rampage is ridiculous.
- the zone-in appears to be stuck up in a tree (Huh)

other than that, looks like a big huge grind, I mean it will likely be weeks before I see my first piece of gear - stark contrast to a lot of tiers like T6 and T8 and even T9 where you start collecting gear within a few hours, but I'm enjoying it so far. except for the rampage, seriously WTF.  Shocked Grin had to re-do all my scripts to keep squishys much farther out of melee range..

it's difficult but not insane. have to pick your pulls carefully. my warrior with max SoA and IG pet can tank at least 3 at once, 4 or 5 if I'm on my toes with supp heals, but not much more..
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 04:15:12 pm by walk2k » Logged

Denzig
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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2017, 06:46:09 pm »

Add my vote for removing scrolls/potions completely.

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Denzig <STONE>
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« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2017, 07:48:42 am »

Tried the T10 mini last nite. Not much use atm xp is very little and as it scales it doesnt seem to have many benifits to back flag.
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warrior5
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« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2017, 08:27:02 pm »

Just did the T10 mini myself for the first time in a long time I agree not much use.
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spuddson
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« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2017, 10:53:35 pm »

T10 mini would be great with a new loot table from harbinger.

85 pct drop essence
10 pct chance of hammer piece
5pct drop of shard

So every 40 days u get an ultimate armor drop

Mas would love that

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Blurring
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« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2017, 10:04:07 am »

2. I echo Orthanos (wtf) in that PB spawns in place are amazing, thank god, but also that the kill count is still too high. Either PBs should spawn about 2x as much as they do now, or kill count should be 500. This is my opinion, but I think most folks agree with something along these lines.

In addition to the increased spawn rate having the plagueborns spawn at point of death is a huge boost. Cannot count how many plagues I have given up in the last year because they spawned at middle gnolls in a tower you can't get toons into surrounded by archers. Not to mention the extra time in clearing half the zone to get all your plagues after a day of hard farming. I think the current spawn rate is perfect, for the time being and for a top tier zone. When T11 is released I wouldn't be against a bump, but for now I think there is a great balance between time to complete and not minimizing the work people put in before the changes.

7. Essences are shockingly rare if you're not killing goo or opening a box (which is very rare as I said). Not sure everyone else's thought on this but I've spent a good amount of time in zone and only had a handful drop. It's much, much lower than T9 or T8 in my experience (maybe 5% of T9?)

Essences were much more farmable back when the NPCs would fight each other and thus level up the goos. It feels to me like the drop rate from other NPCs has been increased significantly to make up for this though. At any rate T10 actually feels like a zone I'd like to farm during double loot (especially with UA drops..) and thus I feel like the current drop rates are fine.

9. Instancing T10 is too expensive, I understand we want to remove plat from the server and keep the number of instances low, but it's too high as is. Maybe 1/2?

Why is it too high? You easily make your money back with minimal mini boss farming.

10. I think shards should be rare, but seems they might be too rare. Maslow is an insane monster who beat the game and has basically finished everything but shards - seems shards are in the PB category of "huh." Others who play a ton have zero or maybe one.

The sun shard drop rate is more a question of where ultimate armor will fall in regards to future tiers. Will there now always be a standard set and ultimate armor set for each tier? Does the ultimate armor of T10 become trivialized when T11 is released with no UA equivalent, only a standard set? If UA is now a permanent fixture of the game, the current drop rate of shards will see people farming T10 for a very long time. I feel like that's all the information and input we should be giving to Akkadius. Let him manage the content how he wants, just provide the information that will help him to do so. Honestly ever since Hateborne took over this server has been inundated with people demanding it be changed to fit their wants and desires. Almost every post is someone saying it should be this way, it needs to be that way, "fix" this problem (which is really just them wanting something to be made easier). Hunter never put up with that shit and I'm glad to see Akkadius doesn't seem to either.

1. Can we do the right thing and solve the GSOA problem? GSOA should be rare in lower tiers and more common as you move up tiers. As it is now, you can kill endless mobs in T3 and get a GSOA, but if you farm OC or you're working T10 you don't see them drop due to slow killing. Right now seems GSOA are so rare on server that lower folks can command basically unlimited amounts of plat for them if they want - getting a GSOA as a lowbie is like hitting the lottery, and it's worse than ever. Solution 1: Have crafter's guild merchant sell GSOA for 10M pp to suck plat out and so end game folks have another option besides paying 15M to toons with T2 armor and zero plat. Solution 2: make GSOA no drop and only drop in T8, T9 and T10 at a rate of 3x or more of what it is now. After all, it's an end game item.

GSOA seems to drop significantly more often in T10 as of late. GSOA currently helps maintain an active economy, so I honestly wouldn't care if newbies could charge 100M plat. I think we should take a large step back from trying to force adjustments to one of the few items that actually encourages player trade interaction.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 10:16:42 am by Blurring » Logged

Blarr!
Peign
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« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2017, 10:16:16 am »

Add my vote for removing scrolls/potions completely.



Garbage loot to remove please:

Scroll of Death Touch
Scroll of Extreme Plaguejuice
Scroll of Ironskin
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