Economies of scale

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[gotee]

So basically in your opinion if more people log on it will increase the drop rate from where it used to be and lower the number of pp bags being dropped ?  I'm not talking about trades I'm talking about the sheer number of drops per zone/clear that's getting borderline pathetic.  We are doing 4-5 times the amount of grinding that the previous players had to do for the same item. fair ?

[Bogreaper]

I am not  100% positive you are referring to me, but it seems it.  so I will say this, there are a few thoughts going on in my posts.  1: I agreed twice that the drop rate from march to now has lowered.  Then on a completely different thought path (that was drop rate, this is economics) to fix the supply / demand issue, more players.

If you increase supply but demand stays the same you devalue your items and make the economy worse.
If you make production easier (aggro zone clicky) while demand stays the same, again harmful to the overall economy.
If you slightly increase supply, while current demand stays consistent, and increase demand for currently devalued items you improve economy (read, more low tier players producing low end items, wanting low mid tier items, while current mid/high tier players maintain demand for mid/high tier items).

... so yes, drop rate of items has went down in the past 6 months. Increasing drop rate alone will not help the economy at all.
    This is not the main topic, so I am not really addressing this issue in my posts.  I do agree with you, I would like the drop rate increased.  6 months ago I would not kill everything in qvic and could farm around 10-12 qvics an hour.  Now I do kill everything that moves, clearing qvic more times per hour, and only garner around 6 - 8 qvics an hour.

... New players will remedy a lot of the economic issues.

peace

[Peign]

I am not  100% positive you are referring to me, but it seems it.  so I will say this, there are a few thoughts going on in my posts.  1: I agreed twice that the drop rate from march to now has lowered.  Then on a completely different thought path (that was drop rate, this is economics) to fix the supply / demand issue, more players.

If you increase supply but demand stays the same you devalue your items and make the economy worse.
If you make production easier (aggro zone clicky) while demand stays the same, again harmful to the overall economy.
If you slightly increase supply, while current demand stays consistent, and increase demand for currently devalued items you improve economy (read, more low tier players producing low end items, wanting low mid tier items, while current mid/high tier players maintain demand for mid/high tier items).

... so yes, drop rate of items has went down in the past 6 months. Increasing drop rate alone will not help the economy at all.
    This is not the main topic, so I am not really addressing this issue in my posts.  I do agree with you, I would like the drop rate increased.  6 months ago I would not kill everything in qvic and could farm around 10-12 qvics an hour.  Now I do kill everything that moves, clearing qvic more times per hour, and only garner around 6 - 8 qvics an hour.

... New players will remedy a lot of the economic issues.

peace

I'm not sure that more players would fix this issue.    New players do not tend to farm zones and then sell the items.    Instead they farm zones, use the items for their own teams and try to buy more of the items.      The demand increases but the supply stays the same.

Potential fixes

1.  Lower plat drops and plat wipe

2.   Increase drop rates of essences from qvic to abyss

3.   Allow essence botting - Supply stays nice and high with active botters


Either way, EQ is an 18 yr old game now.    Amazing that people are still playing.

[Bogreaper]

I'm not sure that more players would fix this issue.    New players do not tend to farm zones and then sell the items.    Instead they farm zones, use the items for their own teams and try to buy more of the items.      The demand increases but the supply stays the same.

Potential fixes

1.  Lower plat drops and plat wipe

2.   Increase drop rates of essences from qvic to abyss

3.   Allow essence botting - Supply stays nice and high with active botters


Either way, EQ is an 18 yr old game now.    Amazing that people are still playing.

I agree with you for the most part.  Plat is very easy to come by and very useless.
Yes the drop rate has to go back up on essences.. I just ran a test this morning to verify.. I went out to get 20 of each essences.
Qvic 14 clearings
Cazic 8 clearings
D.Minor cleared the zone 13 times for 50 crystals.  50 Fire crystals got me 6 essences.. I am still clearing postorms for more crystals to see just how many clearings I have to do in order to get 20 essences.

A clearing is 95% of all trash mobs, and 100% of all ph and names.

As for the new players.. we all play differently, and we all see things a little bit different.  What I have notices about new players, they will sale most of their essences because really at T4 and below they just dont have the plat to make the strike augs, mana necklaces and shields of ages.  Forget about an UW until T4ish T5ish unless they are really dedicated.

They have 0 use for a gsoa, and they are farming the primo drop zones so usually drop a few and move them into the market place in order to get crafters guild packs, or strike augs, or plat for making their items.

Once they get to T4ish they start working towards an UW and start back farming for extra essences.

The times I have seen new players come around (3 waves of 5 or more new players since march if I remember correctly)  The market got flooded with qvic through gods essences (partly how I picked up all my UWs).

So I would say a mix btw your view point of new players and my view point is more then likely the reality of it.

Bottom line.

Put the drop rates back to 2016 levels atleast.
Allow AT keyboard  essence farming.. (dual monitors, I see no reason why I should not be able to have a character on one running around qvic farming up some essences and sniffing for a gemstone, while I have my raid in sunderock working the orcs over), but as it stands we cant, so I dont.

Peace

[Dimur]

People keep referencing some arbitrary drop rate decrease that was implemented within the last XXXXX (short period of time), but has anyone actually obtained an official confirmation from Akka?  I don't really log on much more than exceedingly rarely, but I do visit the forum to read about the state of the server regularly and I don't recall any updates or Akka posts detailing a nerf on drop rates.  I would think that if you are genuinely concerned that something has changed, there's one guy that can clear up any confusion with an affirmation or dismissal of a phantom nerf.  I'm not trying to piss in anyone's Cheerios, it's just kind of a running joke that has persisted for years on this server where new people reference how much harder they have it than veteran players and generally ends up being baseless claims of drop rate nerfs. 

I do remember the time that Hateborne fucked with the ToFS code a bit and Tserrina would spawn off of every ph bat kill and Svartmane would always spawn on her death, but that didn't last very long.  Hate kept saying he didn't touch the spawn chance code at all, but when I told him to come to my ToFS instance and showed him the 5 Svartmane corpses lying there it got fixed pretty quickly.

[Raygan]

 
I do remember the time that Hateborne fucked with the ToFS code a bit and Tserrina would spawn off of every ph bat kill and Svartmane would always spawn on her death, but that didn't last very long.  Hate kept saying he didn't touch the spawn chance code at all, but when I told him to come to my ToFS instance and showed him the 5 Svartmane corpses lying there it got fixed pretty quickly.

So now we know who to throw the rocks at!!!!!!!!!!!!! hehehehe what's up Dimurwar! I find it kinda funny to hear people talking about "how easy it was back in the day" and just skim the posts for a laugh.....I think the scales thing is spot on though...have run several toons through for UCv3 and it is different each time...sometimes green...sometimes silver....never have had red drop more commonly than green or silver though.

[wolfegunr]

I agree with original post, put a GSoA on the noobie vendor for more than the current rate (35m or so would protect the player value and yet allow it to be bought with a 10m premium.)

Also could allow essences to be bought this way from 1m for lower tier to  2m each for T8. (going rate is 500k-1m.)  

EOFS could also be bought for something like 10m (level 1) -65m (Master.)

SLS could go for something like 750k, I think current player value is 500k or so.

This would take out plat and help stabilize player pricing. Sure, people could buy really nice gear, but they are paying a large fee for the convenience.

I do think essence drops need to be increased by at least 50% up to T8, and gsoa too. They are simply too rare.

Scales in t8 need to be a universal thing now. T8s been out forever and we are backflagging there. Just one color to stop the rng rape.

[Raygan]

I agree with original post, put a GSoA on the noobie vendor for more than the current rate (35m or so would protect the player value and yet allow it to be bought with a 10m premium.)

Also could allow essences to be bought this way from 1m for lower tier to  2m each for T8. (going rate is 500k-1m.)  

EOFS could also be bought for something like 10m (level 1) -65m (Master.)

SLS could go for something like 750k, I think current player value is 500k or so.

This would take out plat and help stabilize player pricing. Sure, people could buy really nice gear, but they are paying a large fee for the convenience.

I do think essence drops need to be increased by at least 50% up to T8, and gsoa too. They are simply too rare.

Scales in t8 need to be a universal thing now. T8s been out forever and we are backflagging there. Just one color to stop the rng rape.

I agree with you there. I think the main problem is burn out of old zones....so for the essence problem I suggested this : http://ezserver.online/forums/index.php?topic=5442.msg69645;topicseen#new

I also agree with having stuff with high prices to suck money off the server.....that's why stuff is SO overpriced. SLS used to be 50k and now they are around 500k (of course the UW helped with that)

[Otto]

There are no new players to feed the economy lately either. None of us are giving up anything at all, so it's all 100% self farmed or traded for GSOAs..

Drop rate increase or a way to use plat to purchase essences / gsoa / sls would sure be nice. Burnout is real.

[Brannyn]

I'd say instead of having essences and GSoA available on the merchant just have 1 of the ess available for 1mil per and then give a trade in of 2:1 at a special vendor that you only get access to within either the crafters guild or in each tier zone. Unlock the essence trades based on your tier so in qvic you unlock the ability to buy qvic ess, CT you can trade 2 qvic for 1 CT, when you get into T1 you can trade 2 CT for 1 DMinor etc. Then offer 1 GSoA for 10 of each ess.
By doing this we are adding an alternative way to get ess and GSoA but the cost for the higher ess and GSoA is ridiculously high to keep it from breaking the game, even the most plat rich players won't be able to buy their way into max ANYTHING through the vendor, and the trade rates can be adjusted based on how easy some essences are to farm so that you can't just go mass slaughter t7 or t6 to make essences for a GSoA.
Also restrict trading down so you can't just farm 1 high tier essence and turn it into millions of low tier essences.

[Dimur]

The second you slap something on a vendor, you just set the market price. A vendor sells GSOA for 50mil? I'll sell you one for 45mil...

[Loyal]

The second you slap something on a vendor, you just set the market price. A vendor sells GSOA for 50mil? I'll sell you one for 45mil...

1.) i dont necessarily think this is a bad thing, after all an economy is what we are trying to establish but 2.) i dont think this is likely to happen.

I suppose it really depends on what you put up there. GSOA, for sure somebody would sell those but thats only because its the most traded item (only because of its desirability). Other things are near impossible to get in from players. If this does happen i propose that the plat prices be more than what the players would consider to be reasonable . Getting enough essences for a UW up to X should cost hundreds of million in plat.

[Brannyn]

The second you slap something on a vendor, you just set the market price. A vendor sells GSOA for 50mil? I'll sell you one for 45mil...

1.) i dont necessarily think this is a bad thing, after all an economy is what we are trying to establish but 2.) i dont think this is likely to happen.

I suppose it really depends on what you put up there. GSOA, for sure somebody would sell those but thats only because its the most traded item (only because of its desirability). Other things are near impossible to get in from players. If this does happen i propose that the plat prices be more than what the players would consider to be reasonable . Getting enough essences for a UW up to X should cost 100 million in plat.

I would rather see really high prices. 100 million to get the ess for UW 10 is waaaaaay too cheap. which is why I suggested only putting a price on the qvic essence and having you trade in ess to get higher ones. The plat costs would be super high but it could help out with some of the low tier ess that people hate farming, and having the ability to trade ess in for higher ones would be nice without making it much easier to get the ess.

[Loyal]

The second you slap something on a vendor, you just set the market price. A vendor sells GSOA for 50mil? I'll sell you one for 45mil...

1.) i dont necessarily think this is a bad thing, after all an economy is what we are trying to establish but 2.) i dont think this is likely to happen.

I suppose it really depends on what you put up there. GSOA, for sure somebody would sell those but thats only because its the most traded item (only because of its desirability). Other things are near impossible to get in from players. If this does happen i propose that the plat prices be more than what the players would consider to be reasonable . Getting enough essences for a UW up to X should cost 100 million in plat.

I would rather see really high prices. 100 million to get the ess for UW 10 is waaaaaay too cheap. which is why I suggested only putting a price on the qvic essence and having you trade in ess to get higher ones. The plat costs would be super high but it could help out with some of the low tier ess that people hate farming, and having the ability to trade ess in for higher ones would be nice without making it much easier to get the ess.

Lol yeah i was just thinking about that too and was in the middle of editing my post to up it.

[gotee]

Shame, its back to some pp bags and nerfed drop rate on single loot after it seemed to be somewhat reasonable again for a couple of weeks.  4 TOV runs 3-4 scales per run and the token ess.  No where near where it t used to be on just single loot.  One year ago it was 20 or so scales and 3 or so ess a run, totally sucks now.  Can u please just make it somewhat consistent ? Nerf Nerf Nerf Nerf Nerf Nerf and Nerf again.

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